Poll: Bring Janeway back?

[LaBarre]

I wish people could relax and have fun with this stuff. There's enough anger and fighting in the world as it is.

You have a killer white shark as your avatar and an intriguing nom de plume that suggests frustration, and yet here you are advocating universal peace should break out among active combatants.

Sounds just like the United Nations these days. Sadly, I suspect your call will be just as inaffective.

 

[Lonemagpie]

The only acceptable Janeway is a live one nothing else will do. Outrage doesn't even begin to cover the emotion. Angry doesn't come close.

Brit

Oh get over it and get a life

 

[Lonemagpie]

Nope, Brit, is a betrayed old woman, and it is tedious. If you don't want to see me post then stop these kinds of threads.

It's you lot that start these fucking threads - interminably.

Oh, BTW, I meant to say before, you've made this now-former Janeway thoroughly sick of her. Congratulations

 

[joyofvgr]

I can understand why you feel that way, Lonemagpie. But for many of us, Voyager was about the characters, Janeway being the focal point. For a long time Janeway fans stayed away from boards like these, so it appeared that there weren't that many that really cared about the character. As a result the character was killed off and all the Janeway fans decided to let everyone know that we are out there and really want a live Janeway.

Now a good friend of mine would say that if your fandom is only about one character than you aren't really a "true" fan of the show, or Trek. Many here love Trek and the stories transend the characters for them. Unfortunately, that's not the case for someone like me. It has always been about the characters and I hate to see any of them go. I don't think "true Voyager fans or Trek fans" would have cared if Janeway wasn't killed, so why make the rest of us miserable? Sorry if this is gettining annoying, but I feel that this is my only chance to let tptb know how I feel.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I can understand why you feel that way, Lonemagpie. But for many of us, Voyager was about the characters, Janeway being the focal point.

Janeway wasn't the only character, though (although she was one of the better ones, depending on the writing) and this has been the case with all the Trek series.

It has always been about the characters and I hate to see any of them go.

That's part of the point to dealing with her being gone, isn't it? We always hate to see any person - real or fictional - with whom we have an emotional investment go. But death is a natural part of life, and sooner or later the loss of someone or something you care about will be part of your life. Them being past-tense becomes part of your life.

 

[Thrawn]

Sorry if this is gettining annoying, but I feel that this is my only chance to let tptb know how I feel.

1) We all know how you feel. Believe me. We've managed to figure it out by now, I promise.

2) TPTB have explicitly stated that nothing they read on a messageboard will influence anyone's creative decisions. So you may be letting them know how you feel, but it won't accomplish anything. Write Pocket a letter if you want your voice to be heard.

3) You very well might have won already; the very next Voyager book published might revive her. And you know when you'd find that out? No less than nine months from now, at bare minimum (the next VOY book would have to be next June or July at the earliest, and plot details usually start to emerge 6 months or so before publication). Do you really want to spend the next 9 months saying the same shit over and over before you have any idea if it's been useful?

Write your letter. Hell, write a letter every 3 weeks. But you're accomplishing nothing here save stoking the fires of permanent bitterness.


Alternately, start a thread about a book that you do like. Or try a series that you haven't before. Or read Full Circle, and tell us what you think about how the decision was executed. Talk about TrekLit. But if you're only here to protest this decision, you are not accomplishing squat.

 

[brcarthey]

to all the people who keep criticizing janeway fans who are venting about her death, just leave them alone. it's human nature, maybe not the most productive or rational all the time, but it helps people deal with their personal grief. they're just trying to share their feelings and hoping for a little support. amazingly, they get chastised, ridiculed (even by some authors sadly), and even told how much haters loved janeway's death. but, you know that's your right too. it just seems like just as much of a waste of your time to bitch at these protesters. would you complain to anyone who took the time delighting in janeway's death in a thread?? doubtful.

life does and will go on for them. they'll either accept it and keep buying voyager novels or not and find something else eventually. but this mob mentality of piling on people who are rightly or wrongly genuinely upset seems pretty callous and hypocritical from fans of a sci-fi series that sought to understand and empathize with other's frailties.

if you can't or don't want to understand them, the next best thing is to just leave those in grief alone.

 

[JoeZhang]

to all the people who keep criticizing janeway fans who are venting about her death, just leave them alone. it's human nature, maybe not the most productive or rational all the time, but it helps people deal with their personal grief. they're just trying to share their feelings and hoping for a little support. amazingly, they get chastised, ridiculed (even by some authors sadly), and even told how much haters loved janeway's death. but, you know that's your right too. it just seems like just as much of a waste of your time to bitch at these protesters. would you complain to anyone who took the time delighting in janeway's death in a thread?? doubtful.

life does and will go on for them. they'll either accept it and keep buying voyager novels or not and find something else eventually. but this mob mentality of piling on people who are rightly or wrongly genuinely upset seems pretty callous and hypocritical from fans of a sci-fi series that sought to understand and empathize with other's frailties.

if you can't or don't want to understand them, the next best thing is to just leave those in grief alone.

being serious for a moment if someone is feeling actual grief over this turn of events I suggest they see out a mental health over expert as soon as possible.

 

[Thrawn]

to all the people who keep criticizing janeway fans who are venting about her death, just leave them alone. it's human nature, maybe not the most productive or rational all the time, but it helps people deal with their personal grief. they're just trying to share their feelings and hoping for a little support. amazingly, they get chastised, ridiculed (even by some authors sadly), and even told how much haters loved janeway's death. but, you know that's your right too. it just seems like just as much of a waste of your time to bitch at these protesters. would you complain to anyone who took the time delighting in janeway's death in a thread?? doubtful.

I'm not a hater, I love Janeway, I have tried to explain how much I DO understand (I recently went through a similar experience with Star Wars books), and in fact I have complained about people delighting in Janeway's death in a thread.

life does and will go on for them. they'll either accept it and keep buying voyager novels or not and find something else eventually. but this mob mentality of piling on people who are rightly or wrongly genuinely upset seems pretty callous and hypocritical from fans of a sci-fi series that sought to understand and empathize with other's frailties.

if you can't or don't want to understand them, the next best thing is to just leave those in grief alone.

I understand being upset. But it's been a year and a half. It's never taken me that long to get over the death of a REAL person.

 

[brcarthey]

to all the people who keep criticizing janeway fans who are venting about her death, just leave them alone. it's human nature, maybe not the most productive or rational all the time, but it helps people deal with their personal grief. they're just trying to share their feelings and hoping for a little support. amazingly, they get chastised, ridiculed (even by some authors sadly), and even told how much haters loved janeway's death. but, you know that's your right too. it just seems like just as much of a waste of your time to bitch at these protesters. would you complain to anyone who took the time delighting in janeway's death in a thread?? doubtful.

life does and will go on for them. they'll either accept it and keep buying voyager novels or not and find something else eventually. but this mob mentality of piling on people who are rightly or wrongly genuinely upset seems pretty callous and hypocritical from fans of a sci-fi series that sought to understand and empathize with other's frailties.

if you can't or don't want to understand them, the next best thing is to just leave those in grief alone.

being serious for a moment if someone is feeling actual grief over this turn of events I suggest they see out a mental health over expert as soon as possible.

grief and the grief-stricken are rarely rational. all i'm saying is just leave them alone, let them vent, and maybe they'll eventually get over it or at least calm down.

 

[teya]

I can understand why you feel that way, Lonemagpie. But for many of us, Voyager was about the characters, Janeway being the focal point. For a long time Janeway fans stayed away from boards like these, so it appeared that there weren't that many that really cared about the character. As a result the character was killed off and all the Janeway fans decided to let everyone know that we are out there and really want a live Janeway.

Actually, Janeway's always had an active fanbase on this board--there was even a spinoff board devoted to her completely at one point.

The authors, the editors have all said that they don't look at the fans and their various factions before deciding on storylines. Why do you insist otherwise?

I have to say, I'd hate to be involved in the creative end of Trek at all. No matter what anyone says, there's going to be fans claiming to know what's in their minds and calling them liars.

 

[brcarthey]

to all the people who keep criticizing janeway fans who are venting about her death, just leave them alone. it's human nature, maybe not the most productive or rational all the time, but it helps people deal with their personal grief. they're just trying to share their feelings and hoping for a little support. amazingly, they get chastised, ridiculed (even by some authors sadly), and even told how much haters loved janeway's death. but, you know that's your right too. it just seems like just as much of a waste of your time to bitch at these protesters. would you complain to anyone who took the time delighting in janeway's death in a thread?? doubtful.

I'm not a hater, I love Janeway, I have tried to explain how much I DO understand (I recently went through a similar experience with Star Wars books), and in fact I have complained about people delighting in Janeway's death in a thread.

life does and will go on for them. they'll either accept it and keep buying voyager novels or not and find something else eventually. but this mob mentality of piling on people who are rightly or wrongly genuinely upset seems pretty callous and hypocritical from fans of a sci-fi series that sought to understand and empathize with other's frailties.

if you can't or don't want to understand them, the next best thing is to just leave those in grief alone.

I understand being upset. But it's been a year and a half. It's never taken me that long to get over the death of a REAL person.

yeah, i hear you. i was upset with janeway's death (chewbacca's and to a lesser extent mara jade in SW). i can't explain this level of anguish, but i'm also not a mental health expert either. but, i try to be supportive or in some cases not engage them. it's just weird to me that people get vitriolic towards them instead of just ignoring them. i think the vitriol just fuels their grief and prolongs the agony for everyone.

 

[joyofvgr]

The authors, the editors have all said that they don't look at the fans and their various factions before deciding on storylines. Why do you insist otherwise?

Not only didn't I insist that they did, I didn't even say that they did. However, I would imagine that anyone in the entertainment industry would have their pulse on a particular fanbase, just to get an idea of what might be marketable. That's simply good business. The number of posts both Kirsten Beyer and Margaret Clark have made to these boards in recent days shows that they do infact care about what is posted here.

I have to say, I'd hate to be involved in the creative end of Trek at all. No matter what anyone says, there's going to be fans claiming to know what's in their minds and calling them liars.

I wouldn't consider not wanting your favorite character to be killed off being the same as being involved in the creative end of Trek.

 

[Lynx]

I wish people could relax and have fun with this stuff. There's enough anger and fighting in the world as it is.

You're absolutely right about that.

But it's difficult to have fun when the things which makes life fun is constantly screwed up and ruined. Trek used to be fun once, after the destruction of beloved characters like Kes, Kirk, Data and Janeway there isn't that much fun about it anymore.

joyofvgr wrote:

I can understand why you feel that way, Lonemagpie. But for many of us, Voyager was about the characters, Janeway being the focal point. For a long time Janeway fans stayed away from boards like these, so it appeared that there weren't that many that really cared about the character. As a result the character was killed off and all the Janeway fans decided to let everyone know that we are out there and really want a live Janeway.

Now a good friend of mine would say that if your fandom is only about one character than you aren't really a "true" fan of the show, or Trek. Many here love Trek and the stories transend the characters for them. Unfortunately, that's not the case for someone like me. It has always been about the characters and I hate to see any of them go. I don't think "true Voyager fans or Trek fans" would have cared if Janeway wasn't killed, so why make the rest of us miserable? Sorry if this is gettining annoying, but I feel that this is my only chance to let tptb know how I feel.

I totally agree with what you have written here.

As for the statement from your friend that "if your fandom is only about one character than you aren't really a "true" fan of the show, or Trek", I have to disagree. A person might be a true fan of something, Star trek Voyager, a rock band or whatsoever. But then something hapens which changes the chemistry of the whole thing, an important member of the object for the fandom is removed, leaves, killed off or kicked out or there is a change of style which might be totally different from what it was before. Then it can be hard to remain a fan. I know people who have been true fans of certain rock bands and then have abandoned them because one important member of the band left or was fired or because the band changed its musical direction. I guess it's the same for Star Trek.

Thrawn wrote:

2) TPTB have explicitly stated that nothing they read on a messageboard will influence anyone's creative decisions. So you may be letting them know how you feel, but it won't accomplish anything. Write Pocket a letter if you want your voice to be heard.

Now that's one thing I sometimes find annoying. No compassion for the fans, not a single attempt to listen to the dissapointed fans or maybe change the decision in some way, just an attitude of "This is our show, we do what we want and if you don't like it, sod off!"

And no, I haven't forgotten how the "TPTB" of the TV series reacted to the fans who staged a campaignto have Kes re-instated as a main character.

Thrawn wrote:

I understand being upset. But it's been a year and a half. It's never taken me that long to get over the death of a REAL person.

I have to inform you that most of the fans who are complaining now haven't been aware of the fact that Janeway will remain dead in upcoming books until recently.

As for the difference in getting over the death of a real person and a fictional character, when a real person dies, it's so definitive, you just have to live with it and some people never get over thedeath of a beloved one.

But when it comes to the death of a fictional character, it could have been prevented and in some cases it can be changed too. Therefore people are complaining the way they are doing.

Besides that, some of them who might be angry over the death of a fictional character might even have had that fiction as a place and pastime to get away from real losses in real life as well.

 

[joyofvgr]

Alternately, start a thread about a book that you do like.

I would love to, but I really haven't read any Trek books that I like. That's part of my point. Voyager is the show which made me a "Trekkie" vs the casual fan that I was. I was anxious to continue reading about the crew after they got home. The relaunch series was mediocre at best. I don't need to continue as to why Full Circle and Unworthy would now be an even bigger disappointment do I? Like you said, you all know by now!

Pocketbooks had a real opporutinity to get me as a book fan. I would have circled back to read the past books I missed, etc. That's all I'm saying. To quote you: "Janeway's deat is a dealbreaker for me."

For those of you who don't want to hear it, that's fine, then ignore these threads and they will die quicker!

 

[Thrawn]

Not only didn't I insist that they did, I didn't even say that they did. However, I would imagine that anyone in the entertainment industry would have their pulse on a particular fanbase, just to get an idea of what might be marketable. That's simply good business. The number of posts both Kirsten Beyer and Margaret Clark have made to these boards in recent days shows that they do infact care about what is posted here.

Now that's one thing I sometimes find annoying. No compassion for the fans, not a single attempt to listen to the dissapointed fans or maybe change the decision in some way, just an attitude of "This is our show, we do what we want and if you don't like it, sod off!"

And no, I haven't forgotten how the "TPTB" of the TV series reacted to the fans who staged a campaignto have Kes re-instated as a main character.

No no no. You're both missing the point.

You want to communicate with your most obsessed fans. They're the ones on the messageboards, they're the ones that will appreciate that contact the most, they're the ones with the complex detailed critiques that make you think.

You absolutely don't want to base future stories on their reactions, though. Like it or not, us on here - we are a SMALL minority of the people that buy these books. Sure, we buy a lot, but the vast majority of their readership won't ever touch this messageboard. They'll base their business decisions on their reactions. For instance, Ex Machina and Articles of the Federation are almost universally beloved on here, but neither sold well enough to justify a sequel. This could very well be the same phenomenon in the other direction.

Firefly didn't get turned into Serenity because people bitched about it on messageboards; it was because of letter-writing campaigns. Jericho didn't get renewed because people bitched about it on messageboards; it was because fans banded together and sent several tons of nuts to the studio in protest.

Posting here lets you interact with the creators, and sure they listen to you, but they're not going to make any creative decisions as a result. Make sense?

You want to influence creative decisions, you get a lot more fans to make their voice heard; you get everyone you know that's pissed off to write an individual, personalized letter to Pocket. You show them real evidence that they'd make more money. You can get explanations and backstories here, but you're not going to get change.

 

[Lynx]

Alternately, start a thread about a book that you do like.

I would love to, but I really haven't read any Trek books that I like. That's part of my point. Voyager is the show which made me a "Trekkie" vs the casual fan that I was. I was anxious to continue reading about the crew after they got home. The relaunch series was mediocre at best. I don't need to continue as to why Full Circle and Unworthy would now be an even bigger disappointment do I? Like you said, you all know by now!

Pocketbooks had a real opporutinity to get me as a book fan. I would have circled back to read the past books I missed, etc. That's all I'm saying. To qote you: "Janeway's deat is a dealbreaker for me."

For those of you who don't want to hear it, that's fine, then ignore these threads and they will die quicker!

You should try to get the books which were written when the series were still in production, especially the seasons 1-3 books. Most of them are great and some books are even better than the TV episodes.

Go to my website at:http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Park/1964/
and check my book reviews.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I wish people could relax and have fun with this stuff. There's enough anger and fighting in the world as it is.

You're absolutely right about that.

But it's difficult to have fun when the things which makes life fun is constantly screwed up and ruined. Trek used to be fun once, after the destruction of beloved characters like Kes, Kirk, Data and Janeway there isn't that much fun about it anymore.

joyofvgr wrote:

I can understand why you feel that way, Lonemagpie. But for many of us, Voyager was about the characters, Janeway being the focal point. For a long time Janeway fans stayed away from boards like these, so it appeared that there weren't that many that really cared about the character. As a result the character was killed off and all the Janeway fans decided to let everyone know that we are out there and really want a live Janeway.

Now a good friend of mine would say that if your fandom is only about one character than you aren't really a "true" fan of the show, or Trek. Many here love Trek and the stories transend the characters for them. Unfortunately, that's not the case for someone like me. It has always been about the characters and I hate to see any of them go. I don't think "true Voyager fans or Trek fans" would have cared if Janeway wasn't killed, so why make the rest of us miserable? Sorry if this is gettining annoying, but I feel that this is my only chance to let tptb know how I feel.

I totally agree with what you have written here.

As for the statement from your friend that "if your fandom is only about one character than you aren't really a "true" fan of the show, or Trek", I have to disagree. A person might be a true fan of something, Star trek Voyager, a rock band or whatsoever. But then something hapens which changes the chemistry of the whole thing, an important member of the object for the fandom is removed, leaves, killed off or kicked out or there is a change of style which might be totally different from what it was before. Then it can be hard to remain a fan. I know people who have been true fans of certain rock bands and then have abandoned them because one important member of the band left or was fired or because the band changed its musical direction. I guess it's the same for Star Trek.

See this would have been a nice place to stop your post it gets the fact that your saying Trek dosen't work for you anymore with Janeway dead in a way that dosen't insult people or come off as beating us over the head with your opinion.

Thrawn wrote:

2) TPTB have explicitly stated that nothing they read on a messageboard will influence anyone's creative decisions. So you may be letting them know how you feel, but it won't accomplish anything. Write Pocket a letter if you want your voice to be heard.

Now that's one thing I sometimes find annoying. No compassion for the fans, not a single attempt to listen to the dissapointed fans or maybe change the decision in some way, just an attitude of "This is our show, we do what we want and if you don't like it, sod off!"

And no, I haven't forgotten how the "TPTB" of the TV series reacted to the fans who staged a campaignto have Kes re-instated as a main character.

This on the other hand is NOT helpful to what you are trying to do you don't get people to do something you want them to do by insulting them, DOING THAT. DOSEN'T. WORK. (I'm not yelling just emphasizing). This is not ment as an insult just a suggestion on how you can improve on presenting your case.

 

[joyofvgr]

Thrawn wrote:

I understand being upset. But it's been a year and a half. It's never taken me that long to get over the death of a REAL person.

I have to inform you that most of the fans who are complaining now haven't been aware of the fact that Janeway will remain dead in upcoming books until recently.

As for the difference in getting over the death of a real person and a fictional character, when a real person dies, it's so definitive, you just have to live with it and some people never get over thedeath of a beloved one.

But when it comes to the death of a fictional character, it could have been prevented and in some cases it can be changed too. Therefore people are complaining the way they are doing.

Besides that, some of them who might be angry over the death of a fictional character might even have had that fiction as a place and pastime to get away from real losses in real life as well.

I agree. I was going to address this issue next, by Lynx beat me to it.

 

[Thrawn]

Thrawn wrote:

I understand being upset. But it's been a year and a half. It's never taken me that long to get over the death of a REAL person.

I have to inform you that most of the fans who are complaining now haven't been aware of the fact that Janeway will remain dead in upcoming books until recently.

As for the difference in getting over the death of a real person and a fictional character, when a real person dies, it's so definitive, you just have to live with it and some people never get over thedeath of a beloved one.

But when it comes to the death of a fictional character, it could have been prevented and in some cases it can be changed too. Therefore people are complaining the way they are doing.

Besides that, some of them who might be angry over the death of a fictional character might even have had that fiction as a place and pastime to get away from real losses in real life as well.

I agree. I was going to address this issue next, by Lynx beat me to it.

Fine, fair enough, but the way you're going about it is not going to fix it, and even if by some bizarre chance it HAS, you won't know about it for months and months. So that means all you're doing is venting. Over and over.