Plot hole city

[Pauln6]

If the Enterprise's maximum speed was less than warp 4 (quite a low warp speed for a 23rd century ship and VERY slow for a 24th century ship) for at least part of the journey and the Narada's maximum speed is even slightly faster than that (having travelled from Klingon space to Vulcan space in about a day after a battle with 47 Klingon ships (and pausing to collect Spock on the way and drop Spock off at Delta Vega) how did Enterprise (which spent several hours not pursuing Nero towards Earth) manage to beat her to Earth?

There are probably a dozen potential excuses (Nero wanted Earth's security codes and it took exactly the right amount of time to get them (although why he he needed them is another oddity since he needed no help with the Klingon or Vulcan planetary defences); he stopped off for ice cream; his sat nav was on the blink and he took a left turn at Albuquerque; he paused to rescue the Botany Bay and provide Khan with advanced technology; his ship was damaged but we were not told etc). However this IS a plot hole because the plot does not explain it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Erm.... Enterprise didn't beat Narada to Earth. They were already drilling when Enterprise dropped out of warp in Titan's atmosphere.

So: Not a plot hole.

Also, Enterprise's top speed was limited to warp 4 by severe damage inflicted during Nero's first attack.

 

[Sean Aaron]

2) How does Nero know exactly when and where Spock will emerge from the black hole, in order to ambush him? Is he suddenly an expert in black-hole-based time travel?

I'm not going to go point-by-point here, but I would like to point out that there actually is a line where Nero says something about "doing what they've been doing" and searching the area around the black hole every year - basically he's a patient man.

I'll have to watch it again to get the time marker from the DVD (which is PAL), but I can if you like.

As others have noted, this really isn't a plot hole, unless you sit there during every film that isn't shot in one continuous take (which I think is all of them) and wonder what happened between scenes and how characters get from place to place without showing them walking and driving everywhere...

The audience can infer certain things; generally speaking we're only shown what we need to see in order to progress the story. How a supernova "threatened the galaxy" isn't clear to me, but since we're not watching Star Trek: The Supernova Threat, I can let that slide. See?

 

[Timo]

the Narada's maximum speed is even slightly faster than that

I don't see why we should assume this.

The Narada looks and sounds like a lumbering juggernaut. If she gets from A to B in a short period of time, then that's probably just indication that A lies close to B.

Remember that the Enterprise got from Vulcan to Delta Vega easily enough even before the repairs that would have allowed for warp four. So that particular A-to-B was very short. OTOH, Spock expected to get from Delta Vega to Laurentius fairly quickly - apparently not days after Nero would reach Earth, but perhaps some hours after it. If the Klingon commotion had taken place at Laurentius, we're talking about a fairly tight cluster of locations here.

Which only makes sense. The timehole was created next to the supernova that destroyed Romulus. Given how time travel usually happens in Trek, Nero and Spock might both have emerged from it next to the star that went supernova. Vulcan may by multiple tokens lie very close to Romulus. Spock got from Vulcan to Romulus quickly in a tiny ship that didn't appear to be particularly fast (despite being the fastest he could access). All of this allows our villain to trundle about aboard a mining rig that can barely make warp one-point-something.

The dialogue where Kirk suggests overtaking the Narada and ambushing her at Titan seems to hinge on the concept of warp 4 being faster than what the Narada can do... And while we're given no evidence that our heroes should know Nero's top speed, it's quite possible they have the means of deducing it from the astrography of the situation.

Erm.... Enterprise didn't beat Narada to Earth. They were already drilling when Enterprise dropped out of warp in Titan's atmosphere.

Which should have made transporting impossible. And THAT would be a real bona fide plot hole by the very definition of the word: first our heroes explicitly declare that the drilling will foil the rescue attempt, and then it doesn't!

Fortunately, it doesn't happen quite that way. Nero lowers the drill, yes. But the beam doesn't turn on until after Kirk and Spock beam aboard the Narada. Which is a fairly standard plot twist: now our heroes can't send in reinforcements, nor can they extract Kirk and Spock. And previously, we saw that while the standard transporter can handle more than two people at a time, futureScotty's miracle transporter might well only be capable of handling two people. It's a very small leap from there to assuming that only this miracle transporter could move our heroes all the way from Saturn to Earth in one hop, thereby making it impossible to beam in fifty redshirts with their phasers blazing.

..there actually is a line where Nero says something about "doing what they've been doing" and searching the area around the black hole every year..

This is what Nero says:

We wait for the one who allowed our home to be destroyed, as we've been doing for twenty-five years.

I agree that it can definitely be read the way you read it.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Saquist]

I've never seen so many plot holes in one movie before. There are too many to list them all, but here are a few of the major ones:

1) If Nero wants to destroy planets with a black hole, why does he need to drill to the planet's core first? Won't a black hole on the surface of a planet cause just as much destruction as one at the center?

Yes you're right a black hole in the surface or the center of the planet would do the same thing. However it's not a PLOT. It's a contrivance.

2) How does Nero know exactly when and where Spock will emerge from the black hole, in order to ambush him? Is he suddenly an expert in black-hole-based time travel?

That is a plot hole.
But it's minor.

3) Why was it the job of Spock and the Federation to use a black hole to try and save Romulus? Aren't the Romulans just as technologically sophisticated as the Federation? Moreover, aren't Romulan ships powered by black holes? Wouldn't Romulan scientists be far more adept at creating a black hole to save their world? Why are they suddenly so dependent on Spock to save them?

That's not plot relevant.

4) When Kirk gets chased by the "snow monster", he just 'happens' to wander into the exact same cave that Spock is hiding in. Ignoring that one-in-a-billion coincidence for a moment, the two of them exit the cave and head toward the starbase. Um, what happened the snow monsters? Did they go off and take a nap somewhere?

Again. Not a plot hole
But MASSIVE contrivance.
The movie had a lot of them.

5) Since getting sucked into a black hole transports you back in time, When Nero's ship gets sucked into the black hole at the end of the movie, doesn't that just send him further back in time? For that matter, wouldn't the planet Vulcan have been transported back in time as well?

This is an odd plot device inconsistency.
Not sure it's a plot hole because thanks to Sci Fi we have these sort of wacky abilities period but I guess there is no reason why one device can't be multi purposed.

There are a wide variety of ways to figure out these "plot holes." Not everything needs to be spoonfed to some of us.

It's not about being spoonfed it's about "STORY-TELLING" not "STORY-GUESSING".

Not every detail needs to be delivered but missing critical plot relevant pieces is nothing more than lazy/bad writing/editing. Most people aren't aware of most it because they're are too busy being entertained.

Some of the Plot Holes in Star Trek 2009

1. Nero senselessly murders the Commander of the Kelvin and Billions on Vulcan :
a. Doesn't kill Elder Spock after he obtains the Red Matter
b. Doesn't kill Pike after his interrogation
c. Doesn't kill Kirk while having the opportunity.

2.Nero destroys Five other Starships but stops short of destroying the Enterprise 2x...leaving for Earth so Enterprise
could follow later.

These are Character inconsistencies that degrade the plot.

3. Nero says his objective is to avenge his family yet having the Opportunity to save them he wastes 20 years hanging around in space for a Jellyfish.

4. Nero strands Elder Spock on a Planet with a Federation Outpost. (this comes right back to bite him in the asphalt)

5. Right after Uhura reports communications are disrupted by the drill Nero communicates with Enterprise.

6.When Kirk and crew are devising their plan, Spock says he can board the Narada and "steal back" the black hole device. At this time, only Kirk knew that the device was in fact stolen. (minor)

These are the Real Plot holes. Things that are directly attached to the plot of the film and most of them have to do with Nero because the writers essentially him do what ever was necessary to resolve the plot.

---------------
The Plain Stupid Stuff.

1. Supernova's that threaten the entire galaxy.
2. Enterprise doesn't fire on the Drill itself.
3. Nero's crew doesn't see the 3 base jumpers..
4. The Kelvin last longer than a whole fleet of ships
5. Ejecting Kirk in an escape pod instead of using a brig
6. Earth is completely unprotected /Vulcan aswell.
7. Spock doesn't go to the Outpost to warn Vulcan.
3. Enterprise doesn't get sucked in to the blackhole after ejecting it's core.

 

[Timo]

1. Nero senselessly murders the Commander of the Kelvin and Billions on Vulcan
a. Doesn't kill Elder Spock after he obtains the Red Matter
b. Doesn't kill Pike after his interrogation
c. Doesn't kill Kirk while having the opportunity.

Leaving oldSpock alive was a key element in his so-called thinking. That's a plot point, not a plot hole by any stretch of the concept. Leaving Pike alive could be considered an extension of that plot point.

Indeed, the very reason he originally kills Robau seems to be that he is in a fit of rage. It isn't much of a plot hole if he fails to remain in a fit of rage for 25 years. And many a villain in fiction and in the real world errs on killing when he shouldn't, and not killing when he should - it's not even particularly unrealistic.

2.Nero destroys Five other Starships but stops short of destroying the Enterprise 2x...leaving for Earth so Enterprise could follow later.

Now here we have actual incoherent thinking on Nero's part. But after slaughtering so many ships, could Nero justifiably think that one more would ever be a problem for him?

3. Nero says his objective is to avenge his family yet having the Opportunity to save them he wastes 20 years hanging around in space for a Jellyfish.

Who says he didn't save his family? He explicitly says to Pike that he already prevented genocide. Easy enough to do, once he has Spock's red matter: he could neutralize the supernova star before going to kill Vulcan. That's hardly an issue here, since his family and his world are gone for him in any case, unless he can find a way to return to that exact future somehow. The movie doesn't provide him with such a way.

4. Nero strands Elder Spock on a Planet with a Federation Outpost. (this comes right back to bite him in the asphalt)

Stranding him on a planet without would mean he'd die. Which Nero doesn't want, because that would give Spock only a few days of pain against Nero's 25 years.

5. Right after Uhura reports communications are disrupted by the drill Nero communicates with Enterprise.

Good point. (Probably explainable away with technobabble, but that doesn't make it any less of a point.)

6.When Kirk and crew are devising their plan, Spock says he can board the Narada and "steal back" the black hole device. At this time, only Kirk knew that the device was in fact stolen.

Good point. (Probably explainable as a slip of a tongue, yadda yadda, but the writers did "oops" here.)

1. Supernova's that threaten the entire galaxy.

Stupid, or plain scifi? (Personally, I like to think it's the political repercussions that Spock's talking about here, but he does seem to insist that stopping the supernova is imperative and a matter of minutes even after Romulus dies.)

2. Enterprise doesn't fire on the Drill itself.

Stupid. But perhaps the "jamming" we hear about actually protects the drill from big guns somehow? Perhaps flying real close is a prerequisite for scoring a hit?

3. Nero's crew doesn't see the 3 base jumpers..

Not stupid at all. The jamming would blind them, too.

4. The Kelvin last longer than a whole fleet of ships

Not stupid at all. It's Nero who decides how long his opponent lasts. First, he's disoriented. Then he wants prisoners. And then he fights a well-prepared vessel which only "survives" as an unarmed hulk and loses half her hull before the climax where said hulk impacts on the Narada; the actual "end" of the Kelvin came much earlier, by the standards of the "ends" of the ships at Vulcan.

5. Ejecting Kirk in an escape pod instead of using a brig

Considering how Kirk already thwarted conventional security measures multiple times (sabotaging Kobayashi Maru, sneaking aboard the Enterprise, gatecrashing Pike's bridge), it's a small miracle Spock doesn't order him sedated and frozen in addition to being ejected.

6. Earth is completely unprotected /Vulcan as well.

Well founded in this movie, for a welcome once. We get plenty of references to defenses being lured away, to ambushes, to superior firepower, to obtaining of secret defense codes.

7. Spock doesn't go to the Outpost to warn Vulcan.

Who says he doesn't? He just doesn't get there in time, after which it becomes pointless.

3. Enterprise doesn't get sucked in to the blackhole after ejecting it's core.

Why should she? It's established that our heroes believe the core ejection should save the ship. There's no particular reason to think they should be wrong.

So I'll give you two or three out of fourteen. Not that it'd be a contest, or that there would be a mechanism for judging, or that I would insist on STXI being flawless and striving for zero out of fourteen. I just don't see any objective merit in eleven out of those fourteen.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pauln6]

the Narada's maximum speed is even slightly faster than that

I don't see why we should assume this.

The Narada looks and sounds like a lumbering juggernaut. If she gets from A to B in a short period of time, then that's probably just indication that A lies close to B.

Remember that the Enterprise got from Vulcan to Delta Vega easily enough even before the repairs that would have allowed for warp four. So that particular A-to-B was very short. OTOH, Spock expected to get from Delta Vega to Laurentius fairly quickly - apparently not days after Nero would reach Earth, but perhaps some hours after it. If the Klingon commotion had taken place at Laurentius, we're talking about a fairly tight cluster of locations here.

The dialogue where Kirk suggests overtaking the Narada and ambushing her at Titan seems to hinge on the concept of warp 4 being faster than what the Narada can do... And while we're given no evidence that our heroes should know Nero's top speed, it's quite possible they have the means of deducing it from the astrography of the situation.

That doesn't quite gel though does it? I admit it has been a while since I've seen the movie so my timeline may be out. We know that Klingon space is not that close to Vulcan. We know when the attack occurs in Klingon space. We know when Spock arrives. We know that the attack on Vulcan takes place the day after the attack on the Klingons.

In Broken Bow it look 4 days to reach Quonos at Warp 4 and this is generally viewed as a ridiculously short period of time.

V'Ger which was travelling really fast, pausing only to eat things, took 2 days to travel from the edge of Klingon space to Earth.

If Nero is able to travel from Klingon space to Vulcan (and lets not forget he's been there for a while, presumably taking care of Vulcan defences before the Feds arrive) in a day he must be able to travel at a speed comparable to V'Ger, which would be faster than 23rd century vessels.

Further, if Laurentius is reasonably close as you propose, it would be far better to aim for a communications array and signal them to return to Earth, since subspace communications travel way faster than ships.

I agree that there is an issue about relative distances because the writers don't seem to have any inkling of how far apart solar systems are in the real world. But I don't think it makes any sense to suggest that 24th century Narada was a slow vessel compared to 23rd century vessels. I think they want ships to get places fast to increase the drama and tension while simultaneously forgetting that claiming to be the only ship within intercept range gets sillier and sillier if the enhanced speed means that intercept range gets further and further away.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Speed of plot. In "That Which Survives" the Enterprise explicitly covers 1000 light-years in 11.5 hours at warp 8.4. That would have made Voyager's journey a four week one!

As foir Narada's speed, I'm reminded of "Year of Hell", where a similarly insanely huge ship was limited to warp 6 (according to Tuvok) by it's mass.

 

[Pauln6]

But speed of plot only works if everybody is using the same parameters. If they are travelling at different relative speeds it becomes a plot hole.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But you say

which would be faster than 23rd century vessels.

Which isn't true. TOS, TAS, STV, ENT... Voyager slowed down warp speed. STXI's just gone back to the TOS way.

 

[Timo]

We know that Klingon space is not that close to Vulcan.

Do we?

In ENT, Klingons and Vulcans appear to be well enough acquainted. The Klingon heartland indeed lies four days from Earth, but so apparently does Vulcan... And onscreen maps place Klingon space in the same direction where 40 Eridani, supposed Vulcan homestar, lies in the real galaxy.

V'Ger which was travelling really fast, pausing only to eat things, took 2 days to travel from the edge of Klingon space to Earth.

"Edge of Klingon space"? This isn't established. All that we really know is that V'Ger apparently enters Federation space around the time it devours Epsilon Nine; the crew of the station explicitly postulates this. This is 53.4 hours away from Earth at V'Ger speed, according to Kirk. Sailing towards it at warp seven will apparently result in an intercept in half that time, suggesting V'Ger is traveling at warp seven, too.

Epsilon Nine need not be where the Klingon Empire reaches the closest to Earth, of course.

Further, if Laurentius is reasonably close as you propose, it would be far better to aim for a communications array and signal them to return to Earth, since subspace communications travel way faster than ships.

It might well be that such a signal has already been sent; Earth would not have refrained from informing the Laurentian force of the fact that Vulcan was in distress. Spock isn't said to be trying to inform Starfleet - rather, he's intending to follow Pike's orders to a hilt and join forces with the Laurentian ships. The lack of comms simply means that he has no superiors telling him whether to act in some other fashion.

But I don't think it makes any sense to suggest that 24th century Narada was a slow vessel compared to 23rd century vessels.

She's not just a "vessel", though. She's the first mining rig we encounter since the one from "Terra Prime". A big menace, yes, but it's an interesting plot twist that despite appearances she is not a warship, and is essentially combat-incapable. Similarly, her ability to be everywhere ahead of our heroes need not indicate that she's fast.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Sean Aaron]

..there actually is a line where Nero says something about "doing what they've been doing" and searching the area around the black hole every year..

This is what Nero says:

We wait for the one who allowed our home to be destroyed, as we've been doing for twenty-five years.

I agree that it can definitely be read the way you read it.

Timo Saloniemi

I don't really see another way to interpret it myself, so that was enough explanation for me.

 

[Pauln6]

But you say

which would be faster than 23rd century vessels.

Which isn't true. TOS, TAS, STV, ENT... Voyager slowed down warp speed. STXI's just gone back to the TOS way.

Are you sure that you want to open that can of worms though? The differences in relative speeds are still a plot hole. It's a typical dodgy plot device where you make the villain 'all powerful' compared to the heroes. You have to think of silly plot devices, like the Death Star's exhaust port to make them vulnerable enough to defeat them.

That was why Khan was such an egaging villain - sauce for the goose Mr Saavik!

It's not really credible to suggest that a ship with sufficient firepower to destroy 47 - that's forty-seven!! - Klingon ships without suffering any significant damage followed by 7 Starfleet ships a day later can't travel faster than warp 4.

If they had downgraded Nero to be a realistic threat who suceeded, much like Kirk, down to luck and skill rather than ludicrous firepower for a 'simple mining vessel' the discrepancy with the relative speeds wouldn't be so hard to swallow.

 

[Timo]

I don't really see another way to interpret it myself, so that was enough explanation for me.

An obvious alternate way to read it would be "we have dedicated every hour of our lives to waiting for Spock, including those hours we spent eating, sleeping, having sex, fighting Cardassians, rotting in Klingon prisons and circumnavigating the Federation". It doesn't need to literally mean that they pilgrimaged to the emergence point every afternoon at six o'clock.

But having them keep at least some sort of vigil over the emergence point is plausible and not at odds with what Nero says.

The differences in relative speeds are still a plot hole.

Naah. There was no plot hole in Indiana Jones' horse being slower than a Nazi aircraft, or his steam tramp being slower than a Nazi submarine. Different players in a plot can freely move at different speeds. Except perhaps in prolonged chase scenes, which in general should be avoided in all entertainment because they just don't have counterparts in real life.

STXI didn't feature chase scenes. The heroes and villains were either dashing in different directions altogether, or then hopping past each other. The only time a chase was attempted, with Nero going after nuSpock's ship, it was cut short by nuSpock turning around even when it appeared he could easily outrun the villain in his supposedly fast ship - and that was good storytelling, not a plot hole or a contrivance.

It's not really credible to suggest that a ship with sufficient firepower to destroy 47 - that's forty-seven!! - Klingon ships without suffering any significant damage followed by 7 Starfleet ships a day later can't travel faster than warp 4.

Where's the logic in that? Surely the concept of a strong but slow villain is integral to classic storytelling - David vs Goliath and all that. Firepower need not be related to speed in any way.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pauln6]

Where's the logic in that? Surely the concept of a strong but slow villain is integral to classic storytelling - David vs Goliath and all that. Firepower need not be related to speed in any way.

Ok, I agree in principle that it shouldn't have been a bar except that Nero wasn't slow - because he travelled from Klingon space to Vulcan in less than a day working out how to use red matter along the way.

Indiana Jones does sometimes pay lip service to ways of beating the enemy to the punch but in his case, the differences in speed and distances involved are much smaller.

 

[Timo]

I'm still not seeing an inconsistency there. Klingon engagement to Vulcan, a bit less than a day (and at most half a day if we assume Starfleet keeps San Francisco time and it was somewhere near noon when the call from Vulcan came, as evidenced by sun angles). Vulcan to Earth, again a bit less than a day (as it's daylight again at San Francisco, yet there is no plot event where an additional day would have been wasted). Both of these are slower than Starfleet's response from Earth to Vulcan (supposedly faster than warp four, but we don't know how much faster).

Learning to use red matter doesn't sound like much of a feat, even if Spock refused to cooperate. OTOH, the one aspect of the otherwise contradictory Countdown comic that does make sense is that Nero would be familiar with Ambassador Spock and his effort to convince everybody that Romulus was in danger. He might also be familiar with the red matter effort, then, and would understand the alternate uses of the substance and study on them during the 25-year wait.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[jgalley]

I've never seen so many plot holes in one movie before. There are too many to list them all, but here are a few of the major ones:

1) If Nero wants to destroy planets with a black hole, why does he need to drill to the planet's core first? Won't a black hole on the surface of a planet cause just as much destruction as one at the center?

actually a black hole anymore close to the planet, actually even just in the solar system would suffice..but he doesn't want them to have time to evac..or as little as possible..but still..there's no need to drill no..just shoot it in orbit

2) How does Nero know exactly when and where Spock will emerge from the black hole, in order to ambush him? Is he suddenly an expert in black-hole-based time travel?

this isn't a hole as much as it wasn't explained on screen...supposedly he met with V'Ger and found out through it.

3) Why was it the job of Spock and the Federation to use a black hole to try and save Romulus? Aren't the Romulans just as technologically sophisticated as the Federation? Moreover, aren't Romulan ships powered by black holes? Wouldn't Romulan scientists be far more adept at creating a black hole to save their world? Why are they suddenly so dependent on Spock to save them?

this is kinda dumb but they had to link it somehow I guess...it's the typical "dumb when plot demands it" cliche

4) When Kirk gets chased by the "snow monster", he just 'happens' to wander into the exact same cave that Spock is hiding in. Ignoring that one-in-a-billion coincidence for a moment, the two of them exit the cave and head toward the starbase. Um, what happened the snow monsters? Did they go off and take a nap somewhere?

this isn't a plot hole. dumb yes. plothole? no.

5) Since getting sucked into a black hole transports you back in time, When Nero's ship gets sucked into the black hole at the end of the movie, doesn't that just send him further back in time? For that matter, wouldn't the planet Vulcan have been transported back in time as well?

I thought about this..but the difference is Nero's ship (and vulcan..were torn apart by the forces because it formed from INSIDE them...even if they did go back (or forward) in time...space doesn't support life..at least not vulcans or romulans..seeing as how, even if they didn't get killed by the planet/ship breaking apart, they wouldn't survive in the vacuum

responses bold and underlined.

most of this is bad storytelling..not plot holes..people need to learn what a plot hole is.

also...it was a movie. it's all made up. there's not ONE single episode of trek in ALL of it's series that couldn't be picked apart in the way you did this one..ALL of them have some kind of inconsistancy or plot-demanded event(s) to them.

 

[Pauln6]

Heh - I was just browsing on the Star Trek Online site and had a quick look at Suricata's star charts. What's amusing is that it suggests that it that Vulcan is roughly 15 LY from Earth, the Laurentian system is 50 LY from Earth (travelling from Vulcan to Laurentia would take you away from Earth), and Rura Penthe is roughly 90 LY from Earth in the same direction as the Laurentian system.

I know it's non canon and the scale is inaccurate but it is funny to think of the great mining ship lumbering across 75 LY to Vulcan at less than Warp 4 in a day (travelling at roughly 3.125 LY per hour so it would take 5 hours to reach Earth from Vulcan, which sounds about right actually).

The zippy Federation ships that were able to cover the distance to Vulcan in about an hour would appear to be travelling at about 15 LY per hour at an emergency speed so if Spock signalled them from Vulcan, the whole fleet could have arrived almost 2 hours before Nero or intercepted him beforehand.

So why was Archer so slow?

On the other hand, the time frame was very fuzzy. If it took 2 hours to reach Vulcan then the fleet would arrive nearly 3 hours late. Of course that also raises the issue that Starfleet ships' top speed is only two and a half times as fast as Warp 4...

 

[Timo]

Fair enough. But placing the Klingon massacre closer to Vulcan than Laurentius is would probably be a viable proposition, too. After all, Nero would have every incentive to lure Starfleet away from Vulcan rather than towards it; since the movie gives no other reason for the massacre, we could easily consider it a maneuver by Nero to send Starfleet in an entirely wrong direction.

Say, you're in charge of Starfleet. Romulans attack Klingons. Both are UFP enemies, as far as we can determine from the movie. Is the Romulan attack directed against Earth or Vulcan or some other UFP world? Nothing directly indicates that. How does the attack affect the UFP? Probably by destabilizing that particular stretch of the borderlands. It might well be that there's some more obvious UFP asset at jeopardy there than the (relatively) faraway core planets, and that's why Starfleet goes there.

It's probably way too much a coincidence to assume that Starfleet went to Laurentius on its own volition, without Nero involvement...

A side note regarding the placement of prison colonies: all of those we have seen have been located on the outlying systems of the respective evil empires. Carrada from "Birthright" and Rura Penthe of ST6:TUC variety were both easily accessible by outsiders. The Dominion kept their prisoners on an asteroid at the very fringes of their space if not beyond, close to the wormhole. Even the Cardassians, who kept prisoners in their very home system in "Homecoming", were in the unfortunate situation of having their home system be an "outlying system", right next to neutral space and Bajor!

Perhaps keeping prisoners far away from homeworlds is a hard-learned lesson, a case of the old wisdom of keeping your enemies close backfiring badly in the form of a prison riot or something?

In light of this, the (in the movie unnamed) prison planet witnessing the massacre of the Klingon fleet could be quite proximal to Vulcan and/or Romulus.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pauln6]

Perhaps keeping prisoners far away from homeworlds is a hard-learned lesson, a case of the old wisdom of keeping your enemies close backfiring badly in the form of a prison riot or something?

In light of this, the (in the movie unnamed) prison planet witnessing the massacre of the Klingon fleet could be quite proximal to Vulcan and/or Romulus.

Maybe it's a question of logisitcs - why would you want to waste habitable planets near the core of your systems on prisoners? Better to stick them away from the central systems and supply them with stuff only occasionally. It's not as if habitable planets are that common (comparatively speaking).

I have never been able to work out how so many of the Federation's enemies seem to share borders. That's the problem with only having 2D maps I guess.

Interestingly, the Hobus star is 20 LY from Romulus and 35 LY from Earth! Yikes!!