Ah, right. However, Pike still should have made the connection. He wrote the bloody thing and he looks like this is all new to him.
Plot hole city: Part 3!
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Ah, right. However, Pike still should have made the connection. He wrote the bloody thing and he looks like this is all new to him.
Well, yes, he wrote it... but how long ago - twenty years before? Twenty-five? He's had a whole Starfleet career since then. Do you remember—in full and clear detail—everything you ever wrote, even up to a lengthy dissertation?
Kirk, on the other hand, has had this business hanging over him his whole life, and has read the dissertation within the last three years. The question becomes: who's likely to have the better recollection of what was in that paper?
JJ Abrams?
Saquist
Commodore
Yes. I became a drafter and I can remember drawing my mothers Ford Station Wagon and my father's Audi in stark detail when I was six years old. I remember my graduation project was my Enigma Class starship...and I will always remember it because like most, I assume, my graduation project meant alot to me.
After all he recalled it only 3 years ago and knew Kirk so this wasn't some mediocre dissertation. This was a NAVAL event like the sinking of the Yamato or Titanic. It was an infamous event in history. It's not unreasonable that he should know and remember every detail.
yes they are. One is a long project that takes weeks of research and preparation as well as the time actually spent creating it and the other is a child's drawing that was probably done on a dining room table in under an hour when you're six.
Pike also brought up his paper to Kirk three years earlier. He seemed to remember it quite well.
"Oh right, now I remember. I wrote a paragraph or maybe a dissertation or something."
You are trying to push your point about an problem that isn't there.
1) All Pike said to Kirk in the bar about the dissertation was a very general statement:
2) Later, on the Enterprise, Pike says nothing of his dissertation. Only Kirk talks about it.
1) All Pike said to Kirk in the bar about the dissertation was a very general statement:
While it is possible with the stuff that might happen off-screen, I don't know how that reads as "remember[ed] it quite well".
2) Later, on the Enterprise, Pike says nothing of his dissertation. Only Kirk talks about it.
The only connection was the lightning storm in space. Maybe Pike did think "Hmm...like the Kelvin," but since they were not dealing with the lightning storm, he put it out of his head. Kirk brings it up as a way to prove to Pike that he isn't talking out of his ass right then. Keep in mind, Pike seemingly didn't know about the Romulan attack on the Klingons. He had no reason to automatically connect what was going on now to what happened to the Kelvin the way Kirk was able to. It also doesn't prove that Pike forgot all about his dissertation.
And your`re apologizing for the fact that all the other characters have to be stupid at some point just so Kirk can show how awesome he is. If the dissertation had been written by Commodore April instead of Pike then I could see how Pike wouldn`t know all the details. However, Pike is the one that brings it up. He talks about how George didn`t believe in the no-win scenario. He connects Kirk with his father based on the bartended telling him who he is (unlikely the bartender would know the whole story. After all, he`s a bartender not a historian). And yet the phrase ``lightning storm in space`which was spoken on the bridge in conversation, not in a log jogs Kirk`s memory when he hears the exact same phrasing spoken on the Enterprise. Where would he have read about the exact same phrase? Oh, I don`t know... How about Pike`s paper on the subject? Pike ahs to be shown that he doesn`t even remember the very paper that he told Kirk about three years earlier that proveded the information that let Kirk recognize the `lightning storm in space``
Have Commodore April meet Kirk in the bar and say that he`s the one that wrote a dissertation on the Kelvin and then have Kirk tell Pike that he read it. That would work.
Kirk himself even points out the absurdity of it.
It was written to make Kirk look good but in a way that makes Pike look bad. It`s not raising your lead character up, it`s dropping everyone else down a notch so he looks good in comparison. It`s putting Tom Cruise on an apple box so he can look Nicole Kidman in the eye instead of up her nose. It`s a cheat and it`s lazy writing.
Have Commodore April meet Kirk in the bar and say that he`s the one that wrote a dissertation on the Kelvin and then have Kirk tell Pike that he read it. That would work.
Kirk himself even points out the absurdity of it.
It was written to make Kirk look good but in a way that makes Pike look bad. It`s not raising your lead character up, it`s dropping everyone else down a notch so he looks good in comparison. It`s putting Tom Cruise on an apple box so he can look Nicole Kidman in the eye instead of up her nose. It`s a cheat and it`s lazy writing.
number6
Vice Admiral
Apologizing?I'm not apologizing for anything. You are desperately reaching to create a problem where there isn't one.
This.
But then the intent of this whole thread seems to be finding more fault with this film than there really is.
I have no problem enjoying the film for what it is. However, that doen`t mean that it doesn`t have flaws. I enjoyed the hell out of Star Wars but parts of it really don`t make a lot of sense. That being said, get a big bucket of popcorn, park your brain in neutral and enjoy. Just don`t think about it too much.
I sometimes have to remind my thesis advisor about some of his work, only because he's spent years working on, y'know, OTHER projects, too (and I'm meeting with him this week anyway). If you go to any given academic conference, the keynote speaker -- who has a ton of distinction -- usually has to review his/her own work before speaking to the crowd. Having a head of too much information isn't really a character flaw, or a flaw of lazy writing. Assuming a professional MUST know every single detail of their dissertation 20+ years after the fact implies that the professional don't expand their own work, is incapable of changing or revising their ideas, or is unable or unwilling to adapt their work to modern developments, which is basically stagnation (and I refuse to think that Pike is stagnant. He beeped once when I said that, showing he agrees with me).
This is remarkably close to getting offended whenever a favorite Trek actor forgets the details of a particular episode, or a legendary athlete forgets about a certain play.
This is remarkably close to getting offended whenever a favorite Trek actor forgets the details of a particular episode, or a legendary athlete forgets about a certain play.
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If Pike wasn`t supposed to remember details of his dissertation, they shouldn`t have brought it up. When he first meets Kirk he says that he`s his father`s son, that he didn`t believe in the no win scenario, etc, etc. And yet, when Krik points out that lightning storm and says that he read it in Pike`s paper, Pike gets a deer in the headlights look.
How about Kirk being the one who wrote the paper on the Kelvin. It would make sense for JTK to have an interest in that incident since it was when his father died. It would also have established a conenction between Kirk and his father that was lacking. (He asked Spock if he knew his father in the prime universe. Everyone else seemed to talk about George except his son).
How about Kirk being the one who wrote the paper on the Kelvin. It would make sense for JTK to have an interest in that incident since it was when his father died. It would also have established a conenction between Kirk and his father that was lacking. (He asked Spock if he knew his father in the prime universe. Everyone else seemed to talk about George except his son).
You`d never know it from some of the responses. Bring up a shortcoming and the torches and pitchforks and cries of ``hater`` all appear.
I`d love for Star Trek to smarten up a bit, grow up a bit and tell some intersting stories. It can have action by all means. That doesn`t mean you can`t tell a tight, well crafted story as well. That`s what it needed, some tightning. There were some really dumb moments in this one. Of course, there`s been really dumb moments in all the others as well. Doesn`t mean that the new films can`t set their sights a little higher.
I`d love for Star Trek to smarten up a bit, grow up a bit and tell some intersting stories. It can have action by all means. That doesn`t mean you can`t tell a tight, well crafted story as well. That`s what it needed, some tightning. There were some really dumb moments in this one. Of course, there`s been really dumb moments in all the others as well. Doesn`t mean that the new films can`t set their sights a little higher.
This. The movie had lots of stupid little things in it. Kirk reminding Pike of something he wrote once is not one of them.
I'm more dismayed at the film's amount of cliffhanging, not dissertation-reminding.
Cliffhanging is the new shirt ripping.
Wait a minute, there was no shirt ripping in this movie! Yes, there was one scene of shirtlessness, but it didn't rip! I'm going to write an angry, potentially Federation-saving dissertation on this.
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