Please sell me on DS9.

[Lindley]

Watch this.

Great trailer. I was a bit taken aback at the decision to use the B5 music for the first part, but it builds well.

 

[psikeyhackr]

I am not a Star Trek fan. I am a SCIENCE FICTION fan.

Deep Space Nine is the best Science Fiction of the Star Trek franchise.

To a significant degree it is the extent to which DS9 escaped the Trek mold that made it better. I can sort of understand why some die hard Trekkies might like DS9 the least. Of course Babylon 5 is better than DS9, but that is a whole 'nuther story. LOL

psik

 

[khaaan!!!]

Like you I grew up on TNG. Last year I watched both Enterprise and DS9 Beginning to end. For Enterprise it was my first run since I did not have access to it on T.V. while it was airing. For DS9 it was my second run since watching as a teenager. I have to say DS9 stuck with me much more so than even TNG did even though TNG was my first love. Of the modern treks this is the one that will age the best. After watching it around 10 years after it ended it was still powerful and engaging

DS9 is in my mind the apogee of the Star Trek franchise. It had realistic characters who grow and develop naturally. The characters are the strongest, most developed, and realistic of any of the modern series in Star Trek. Unlike TNG they are not perfect, they are not the best, and they have flaws like we all do. Beyond the quality of the characters is the amount of them. You will find yourself caring about even secondary characters, something the other shows hardly had at all.

DS9 had the strongest writing of any of the modern series. Humor comes across naturally, and is actually funny. It does not seem forced or like the writers are trying to hard. Love stories do not seem awkward.

The show takes risks that the other modern series never did. There is no reset button like on voyager. Events happen and they have long lasting consequences for the rest of the series. This show is not black and white. I felt empathy for the “villains” at times. It deals with issues that the other treks would not touch. Real world racism not a sci fi analogy but the real ugly thing. War, religion, homosexually (I believe DS9 was the 1st shows to have a homosexual kiss on T.V. I might be mistaken but it caused a stir when it first aired).Best of all there is ambiguity. I found in Voyager and Enterprise the message was a little heavy handed. DS9 makes you think and does not wrap things up nice and pretty

As far as plot goes this DS9 has it in spades. This was the first trek to really experiment with a serialized format. It rewards its viewers. If you invest in this show you will be paid back and not regret it. (Be warned as with all modern treks the first two seasons are not the best so please don’t stop at Move Along Home)

But hey watch them both, I watched Enterprise after it was done not knowing a thing about it only that it was despised by a lot of trek fans. I enjoyed it, I was entertained and the last season I felt was a true gift to trek fans.

 

[Captrek]

I’m rewatching DS9 now, for the first time since first run. I’m early in season 2 now.

What really stands out to me about it is how the writers can present conflict without taking sides. In TNG, there was relatively little conflict among our heroes, and when there was conflict, it was a situation like “I Borg,” where the writer felt there was a right decision and a wrong decision, and all the good guys came around to see the light before the end of the episode. In DS9, when Kira and Sisko are arguing and about to tear each other’s head off, the writers really believe in both of them, and it shows. OK, Quark’s position is usually unsympathetic, but aside from him, everybody’s always arguing, and nobody’s ever “wrong.”

 

[Navaros]

^

I don't think that even Quark's position was ever unsympathetic (other perhaps than in Business as Usual). Quark is just trying to make a buck, like any businessman would.

 

[khaaan!!!]

I’m rewatching DS9 now, for the first time since first run. I’m early in season 2 now.

What really stands out to me about it is how the writers can present conflict without taking sides. In TNG, there was relatively little conflict among our heroes, and when there was conflict, it was a situation like “I Borg,” where the writer felt there was a right decision and a wrong decision, and all the good guys came around to see the light before the end of the episode. In DS9, when Kira and Sisko are arguing and about to tear each other’s head off, the writers really believe in both of them, and it shows. OK, Quark’s position is usually unsympathetic, but aside from him, everybody’s always arguing, and nobody’s ever “wrong.”

Absolutely right, the writers let us make up our own mind about things. They don't force a right or wrong, or make it black or white. The character conflict is a natural flow from the characters themselves and the plot, they react the way you think they would. On TNG there was almost no conflict and the conflicts on Voyager feel awkwardly written forced in comparison to DS9.

 

[Captrek]

^

I don't think that even Quark's position was ever unsympathetic (other perhaps than in Business as Usual). Quark is just trying to make a buck, like any businessman would.

Quark may not be unsympathetic as a character, but his positions in most disputes with the other characters are usually the “wrong” positions. Yeah, he’s just trying to make a buck, but he doesn’t get into a lot of conflicts with the other protagonists (except Rom and other employees) when he’s trying to make an honest buck. It’s his criminal activities that come between him and the other characters.

What seems strange about the Quark situation is how there are no apparent repercussions from his help to Varod’s team in Invasive Procedures. (Granted, I'm only a few episodes past that at this point, so there may yet be.) It’s true that he ended up saving the day, and I assume that’s why Kira didn’t follow through on her threat to kick him off the station without a ship, but I still think there would be some changes to the way things are done. Tighter constraints to keep him out of trouble. But it looks like they’re giving him just as much freedom to operate and cause problems as they did before.

 

[kes7]

You guys are good! I'm excited to begin watching. Thanks for all the great comments. I'll let you all know how it goes.

 

[mattyhugh]

You guys are good! I'm excited to begin watching. Thanks for all the great comments. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Just make sure you'll stay the course through season one.

 

[noknowes]

So, I grew up on TNG, got really into VOY when it aired on Spike a few years ago, and enjoyed all the TOS movies and most of the episodes. However, I never got into DS9 or ENT. I'd like to start watching one of those series now and don't know which one to pick. So you all are the DS9 fans, please tell me why I will love it. I already posted a similar thread in the ENT forum. Thanks in advance.

You either watch it or not.

O'Why should we waste our precious time selling YOU a series.

What do WE get out of it?

 

[TheGodBen]

^ Ira Steven Behr will give you $50 (or its equivalent in crack if that's your poison) for every person you convert to DS9. Did you not get the newsletter he sent out last Christmas?

 

[Spot]

Do you like well-written, compelling characters; complex plot arcs with depth and surprise; clever dialogue; and kick-ass action? That's DS9.

This really sums it up. But to say a bit more...

I was in high school when I first watched DS9 and fell in love with it so the young/old thing doesn't hold any weight for me.

I also think that ALL Trek shows can be enjoyed by the same person for their own merits, I personally find things to like about each of them.

What makes DS9 my favorite though and elevates it above the others imho is:

1. payoff (as many have said already)

2. The optimistic future Roddenberry painted was a great thing, but all the other Trek shows just take it as a given. DS9 is the only Trek show that dares to test that vision, but as much as the vision bends it does not break and that is the other strength of DS9, it isn't a dyastopian show. It dares to maintain its optimism in the face of the temptation to do otherwise. Most Trek shows give the illusion that humanity is "perfect" by the 23/24th century. DS9 dares to say it is the pursuit of that "perfection" that is the more important goal. People are not perfect, they will fail from time to time along the way, the true test of Roddenberry's dream is whether the characters are willing to pick themselves back up after they fail and keep striving, or just give up. And the characters of DS9 dare to get back up. As do the other Trek characters from the other shows in their best episodes. Oddly it is the "stationary" Trek show that is most about the journey, not the journey without, but the journey within ourselves. The people you meet in the pilot are not the same people that you say goodbye to in the finale, they have "evolved" in more ways than one, in fact it is the characters than can't accept change that act the most villainous and ultimately get "left behind."

As for what we get our of it, there is nothing more fun for older fans that watching newer fans watching and giving their opinion on the show for the first time. At least those have always been some of my favorite threads here.

 

[Fish1941]

DS9, like the other TREK series, is pretty good. I think it had the potential to be the best of the franchise, due to its premise. And there are many who believe it was. Personally, I don't think so. I feel that if you enjoyed TNG and VOY, you will enjoy DS9, which has the same level of quality.

For me what sets DS9 apart is that it is struggling for creative freedom within the confines of the Trek episodic formula, like a poet struggling for freedom within the confines of the sonnet form. Sometimes the best creative efforts result from an imposed constraint of some kind, and I think that DS9 is an example of that.

The problem with DS9 is that it had failed to achieve that creative freedom, thanks to some of the faulty writing found in the series. I think it failed to reach its potential, which is why I do not view it as above the rest of the TREK franchise.

 

[mattyhugh]

The problem with DS9 is that it had failed to achieve that creative freedom, thanks to some of the faulty writing found in the series. I think it failed to reach its potential, which is why I do not view it as above the rest of the TREK franchise.

Care to explain further?

 

[Too Much Fun]

Well I don't know if he's objecting to the same thing as me, but as I've said in other threads, the writing disappoints me sometimes because I think it gets too sidetracked from the main stories and characterizations by going on tangents exploring its mythology that I find very uninteresting and sometimes just lame.

For example, Bajoran politics, religion, and the cult of the Pah Wraith. I really hated when the show would get so caught up with this stuff instead of just sticking to more intimate character pieces or a more sharper focus on the war arc/Dominion vs. Federation conflict, which by itself was quite consistently enthralling.

 

[mattyhugh]

Well I don't know if he's objecting to the same thing as me, but as I've said in other threads, the writing disappoints me sometimes because I think it gets too sidetracked from the main stories and characterizations by going on tangents exploring its mythology that I find very uninteresting and sometimes just lame.

For example, Bajoran politics, religion, and the cult of the Pah Wraith. I really hated when the show would get so caught up with this stuff instead of just sticking to more intimate character pieces or a more sharper focus on the war arc/Dominion vs. Federation conflict, which by itself was quite consistently enthralling.

See I look at theme as equally important elements to story. Did I enjoy the Battle of Chin'toka more than the Fire Caves? Yes, But I look at DS9s religious element as rather engaging as opposed to Roddenberry box, Religion doesn't exist anymore angle. But I can see how at time the execution could be a letdown. That is turning a multifaceted Dukat into a characture of himself. Even if he was supposed to be the antichrist.

 

[MarauderMo]

Like many of the others here, I didn't get into Ds9 until after it's initial run. I was also a Pro-TNG'er. But after starting DS9 i become addicted to it. It remains my favorite series to date.

I recommend it because it is the Trek series that "breaks the mold". It touches on many subjects that haven't been deeply explored in Star Trek... War, religion, politics, bigotry, etc.

There's not really any episodes that I dislike out of the this series. I even enjoy the comedy and romance-heavy episodes.


After you finish DS9 though, you should go ahead and check out Enterprise as well. Season 3 is great and season 4 has some gems as well.

 

[Navaros]

What seems strange about the Quark situation is how there are no apparent repercussions from his help to Varod’s team in Invasive Procedures. (Granted, I'm only a few episodes past that at this point, so there may yet be.) It’s true that he ended up saving the day, and I assume that’s why Kira didn’t follow through on her threat to kick him off the station without a ship, but I still think there would be some changes to the way things are done. Tighter constraints to keep him out of trouble. But it looks like they’re giving him just as much freedom to operate and cause problems as they did before.

I re-watched that episode yesterday. It was very poorly-paced and poorly-written IMO.

There are no future consequences whatsoever to Quark, in direct contradiction Kira's promise that Quark was through on the station. Definitely a major writing fubar there.

But an even bigger problem is, why is Quark being blamed in the first place? This did not seem to be explained in the episode at all, unless perhaps I zoned out during the dialogue where it was. I know they found Quark in an airlock, and I also know that O'Brien later said Quark was to blame for the situation. But what more than that was there in the episode that speaks to what Quark did wrong?

I want to know what they are blaming Quark for, exactly, and where exactly in the episode is this indicated?

 

[Captrek]

Quark messed with the security system in the airlock. Presumably the security system would have prevented the bad guys from bringing functional weapons into the airlock undetected and getting the drop on O’Brien and Odo.

What’s rather unclear is why. Quark thought the purpose of their visit to the station was so Yeto could buy some “liquidated chains” from Quark. First of all, isn’t it a little out of character for Quark to be this gullible? Second, why would Yeto and his crew need to bring weapons onto the station to buy that merchandise from Quark?

 

[Navaros]

Quark messed with the security system in the airlock.

Is that stated in the script?

It indeed doesn't seem to make any sense so to why Quark would mess with the security system in the airlock.