Yep. Don't forget "Crossovers" as well, which allows Transformers to feed off the popularity of both Star Wars and Marvel characters (and vice versa).
Please God, No! (Transformers 2 Rumor) (SPOILER!)
- Thread starter Thespeckledkiwi
- Start date
Yep. Don't forget "Crossovers" as well, which allows Transformers to feed off the popularity of both Star Wars and Marvel characters (and vice versa).
That would be incorrect, Bay can't make those changes without Hasbros approval seeing as how it's their product they're marketing out. I also think it's been explained on how budget, scheduling and many other aspects affect why certain elements within the comics can't be done.Making Transformers live action makes a big difference because they aren't cartoons anymore, Bay entered them into our phyical world. It's every kids dream that their toys become "real".
BTW, if the kid now turned adults are writing the Transformer cartoons ,then they're doing a piss poor job. If it's for the comic books, then I don't care. I don't read comics, so not to sound arrogant but I'm part of that mass public that's coming to know Transformers thru film. So me and many like me need a film that explains the basics of what my kids are watching & playing with. Robots fighting for freedom over a another ruling class is a universal message everyone around the world can relate too. Once again, it has to be a concept people internationally can identify with, not just an American or Eastern European audience.
I also have a degree in TV & Film production, so I have a fairly good insiders view of the film making industry. So I'm dead serious when I tell you the fans base aren't the only audience these films are marketed too. If they grab you that's cool and a bonus but they're really aiming at your kids. Transformers wouldn't be going this long if they weren't constantly changing them to appeal to the next generation of young fan. Trek does it with every spin off & Star Wars is doing it with "Clone Wars", TMNT does it as well. Interesting how all of them are long term selling products from the same company.
It's more about marketing than comic books. The comics are just tied into all the marketing product.
You're not listening. I didn't say they weren't aimed at my hypothetical kids - I said that getting the fiction a bit more as people liked it from the cartoons and comics wouldn't harm that aspect at all. To my mind, the film is the way it is because of Bay's influence, not the toy-marketting people, who would presumably like even more colourful robots with interesting gimicks.
Not to be rude but debating me about what you feel is right or wrong won't change the fact that this is the way the film industry works. I don't make the rules, they do. Making films is a business and this is how a business is run.
I almost mentioned that but kept it to the core TF line since the discussion came from there with the movie.
The Teletraan-1 Wiki article might help - and I really like the blurb on the box for the Titanim figure:
I think Fallen is cool - I'm using him in a fic project of mine - but we'll see how this incarnation of him pans out.
I think Fallen is cool - I'm using him in a fic project of mine - but we'll see how this incarnation of him pans out.
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
Actually Transformers moved beyond that realm (Alternators come to mind). Bios for some of the GI Joes weren't made for kids and they deal with some adult themes.
So, let's see: Batman the Animated Series, not for kids? X-Men: the Animated Series, not for kids? Batman Beyond, not for kids?
Batman, Superman were made for kids as well, weren't they? That was their primary market back when they were created and that's what comic books are for, kids! So why are all these 20-30s year olds clamoring for something like the Dark Knight? Shouldn't the executives be aiming for the Batman and Robin type of show with lots of flash and color and big explosions and stupid piss jokes?
Making Transformers live action makes a big difference because they aren't cartoons anymore, Bay entered them into our phyical world. It's every kids dream that their toys become "real".
BTW, if the kid now turned adults are writing the Transformer cartoons ,then they're doing a piss poor job. If it's for the comic books, then I don't care. I don't read comics, so not to sound arrogant but I'm part of that mass public that's coming to know Transformers thru film. So me and many like me need a film that explains the basics of what my kids are watching & playing with. Robots fighting for freedom over a another ruling class is a universal message everyone around the world can relate too. Once again, it has to be a concept people internationally can identify with, not just an American or Eastern European audience.
I also have a degree in TV & Film production, so I have a fairly good insiders view of the film making industry. So I'm dead serious when I tell you the fans base aren't the only audience these films are marketed too. If they grab you that's cool and a bonus but they're really aiming at your kids. Transformers wouldn't be going this long if they weren't constantly changing them to appeal to the next generation of young fan. Trek does it with every spin off & Star Wars is doing it with "Clone Wars", TMNT does it as well. Interesting how all of them are long term selling products from the same company.
It's more about marketing than comic books. The comics are just tied into all the marketing product.
ARGH! That's your problem exodus. You're looking at it from a TOYS point of view and not a comic or a television.
And Nolan entered Batman in the real world again.
the Transformer cartoons are pretty bad yes, but the comics are excellent. Those guys writing the comics grew up watching and playing with Transformers. They have expanded and developed even better nature of the Transformer universe.
and I haven't touched a Superman or a Batman comic that wasn't 3 years out of date, and most of my beginning knowledge of Batman comes from the cartoon or Superman cartoon back in the 90s. So why didn't Nolan make it more like the Batman cartoon and kept it PG to have kids watch it instead of a hard Pg-13?
Yes, Transformers basic message is good vs evil but it is much more than that.
Optimus Prime came from nowhere. He was a data entry level worker (or something like that). He rose to become someone, which is a universal message. Megatron was an oppressed miner that went to become a gladitator and rose through brutality there. That sounds kind of like Gladiator the movie. You can convey those simple messages through dialogue and action.
Yes, it is about marketing but you got kids from the 80s and 90s, that read the comics, that know the Transformers. Transformers and most of the 80s cartoons and such had a massive explosion because those that grew up with them were more sophisticated and actually understood storylines.
That is who you market too and expand on that.
BTW Transformers wasn't marketed toward the youth, it was marketed to those that grew up with the cartoon and the comics, hence why it was Pg-13 and had not only a lot of adult humor but also the violence.
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We all need to realize that Transformers on the big screen will never be as good as the comics or Beast Wars. Ultimately, the best we can hope for is some kickass effects and a little bit of fanservice.
Besides, it's not like the clowns that are writing Transformers are working on Star Trek or anything! Hah hah!
...Oh, fuck.
Besides, it's not like the clowns that are writing Transformers are working on Star Trek or anything! Hah hah!
...Oh, fuck.
Norrin Radd
Vice Admiral
My problem with using this Fallen dude is that there's already so many good G1 villain dynamics that could be used that haven't been touched yet. For instance, Megatron and Shockwave had a hell of a rivalry in the comics...kind of like psychotic Kirk vs. evil Spock, with Starscream being a malicious Chekov.
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What do you fucking mean, "this is how a business is run"? All I've said is, "I think that this film would have sold just as many toys if it had pleased the fans a bit more" and all you've said is "you don't understand how the industry works." That's fine, I can believe that, so what about Bay's film makes it sell more toys? Please tell me. That's what I've been wanting to know.
First off you need to relax. Theres no need to curse and get all bent out of shape over a debate about Transformers.
Second, your question was already answer 3 times by three different posters, Capt. Creig, God Magnus & myself.
What part of the film industry is a business that craters blockbusters to the entire mass public of the world is not sinking in?
Actually Transformers moved beyond that realm (Alternators come to mind). Bios for some of the GI Joes weren't made for kids and they deal with some adult themes.
So, let's see: Batman the Animated Series, not for kids? X-Men: the Animated Series, not for kids? Batman Beyond, not for kids?
Batman, Superman were made for kids as well, weren't they? That was their primary market back when they were created and that's what comic books are for, kids! So why are all these 20-30s year olds clamoring for something like the Dark Knight? Shouldn't the executives be aiming for the Batman and Robin type of show with lots of flash and color and big explosions and stupid piss jokes?
Making Transformers live action makes a big difference because they aren't cartoons anymore, Bay entered them into our phyical world. It's every kids dream that their toys become "real".
BTW, if the kid now turned adults are writing the Transformer cartoons ,then they're doing a piss poor job. If it's for the comic books, then I don't care. I don't read comics, so not to sound arrogant but I'm part of that mass public that's coming to know Transformers thru film. So me and many like me need a film that explains the basics of what my kids are watching & playing with. Robots fighting for freedom over a another ruling class is a universal message everyone around the world can relate too. Once again, it has to be a concept people internationally can identify with, not just an American or Eastern European audience.
I also have a degree in TV & Film production, so I have a fairly good insiders view of the film making industry. So I'm dead serious when I tell you the fans base aren't the only audience these films are marketed too. If they grab you that's cool and a bonus but they're really aiming at your kids. Transformers wouldn't be going this long if they weren't constantly changing them to appeal to the next generation of young fan. Trek does it with every spin off & Star Wars is doing it with "Clone Wars", TMNT does it as well. Interesting how all of them are long term selling products from the same company.
It's more about marketing than comic books. The comics are just tied into all the marketing product.
ARGH! That's your problem exodus. You're looking at it from a TOYS point of view and not a comic or a television.
And Nolan entered Batman in the real world again.
the Transformer cartoons are pretty bad yes, but the comics are excellent. Those guys writing the comics grew up watching and playing with Transformers. They have expanded and developed even better nature of the Transformer universe.
and I haven't touched a Superman or a Batman comic that wasn't 3 years out of date, and most of my beginning knowledge of Batman comes from the cartoon or Superman cartoon back in the 90s. So why didn't Nolan make it more like the Batman cartoon and kept it PG to have kids watch it instead of a hard Pg-13?
Yes, Transformers basic message is good vs evil but it is much more than that.
Optimus Prime came from nowhere. He was a data entry level worker (or something like that). He rose to become someone, which is a universal message. Megatron was an oppressed miner that went to become a gladitator and rose through brutality there. That sounds kind of like Gladiator the movie. You can convey those simple messages through dialogue and action.
Yes, it is about marketing but you got kids from the 80s and 90s, that read the comics, that know the Transformers. Transformers and most of the 80s cartoons and such had a massive explosion because those that grew up with them were more sophisticated and actually understood storylines.
That is who you market too and expand on that.
BTW Transformers wasn't marketed toward the youth, it was marketed to those that grew up with the cartoon and the comics, hence why it was Pg-13 and had not only a lot of adult humor but also the violence.
What part of Transformer films are not only just made for you & comic book fans are you not getting?
Gotta disagree with you there. The film was rated PG-13, which means youth is included (granted, my definition of "youth" is anyone about 14 and under). Kids were clearly targeted as part of the TF campaign. If you went to the official TF web site for most of 2007, it prominantly featured the TF Movie. Indeed, many of the toys created for the movie specifically targeted a younger than teen demographic utilizing simpler transformations and chunkier designs. Add to that Halloween costumes for kids, role play toys for kids, bookbags, pencils, party favors etc. and kids were clearly targeted. While the film did manage to entertain people of all ages, there were tons of kids in the theater every time I went.
Besides, today kids watch the Family Guy & Sponge Bob. They're used to adult humor and violence. Just like we were watching Looney Tunes.
Yes, I do apologise about that - by way of explanation rather than to excuse myself, I was pretty tired and drunk when I posted that, but nonetheless, my question hasn't been answered. All they've said is "the movie is designed to sell toys". Everyone knows that, even movies that AREN'T based on toylines are often designed to sell toys, what I mean is, "why does Bay's approach sell more toys?" which is what I actually specifically just asked and you haven't attempted to answer.
I did, I explained because it was live action.
BTW, apology accepted. No harm no foul, just put the bottle down next time.
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
What part of the film industry is a business that craters blockbusters to the entire mass public of the world is not sinking in?
Actually Transformers moved beyond that realm (Alternators come to mind). Bios for some of the GI Joes weren't made for kids and they deal with some adult themes.
So, let's see: Batman the Animated Series, not for kids? X-Men: the Animated Series, not for kids? Batman Beyond, not for kids?
Batman, Superman were made for kids as well, weren't they? That was their primary market back when they were created and that's what comic books are for, kids! So why are all these 20-30s year olds clamoring for something like the Dark Knight? Shouldn't the executives be aiming for the Batman and Robin type of show with lots of flash and color and big explosions and stupid piss jokes?
Making Transformers live action makes a big difference because they aren't cartoons anymore, Bay entered them into our phyical world. It's every kids dream that their toys become "real".
BTW, if the kid now turned adults are writing the Transformer cartoons ,then they're doing a piss poor job. If it's for the comic books, then I don't care. I don't read comics, so not to sound arrogant but I'm part of that mass public that's coming to know Transformers thru film. So me and many like me need a film that explains the basics of what my kids are watching & playing with. Robots fighting for freedom over a another ruling class is a universal message everyone around the world can relate too. Once again, it has to be a concept people internationally can identify with, not just an American or Eastern European audience.
I also have a degree in TV & Film production, so I have a fairly good insiders view of the film making industry. So I'm dead serious when I tell you the fans base aren't the only audience these films are marketed too. If they grab you that's cool and a bonus but they're really aiming at your kids. Transformers wouldn't be going this long if they weren't constantly changing them to appeal to the next generation of young fan. Trek does it with every spin off & Star Wars is doing it with "Clone Wars", TMNT does it as well. Interesting how all of them are long term selling products from the same company.
It's more about marketing than comic books. The comics are just tied into all the marketing product.
ARGH! That's your problem exodus. You're looking at it from a TOYS point of view and not a comic or a television.
And Nolan entered Batman in the real world again.
the Transformer cartoons are pretty bad yes, but the comics are excellent. Those guys writing the comics grew up watching and playing with Transformers. They have expanded and developed even better nature of the Transformer universe.
and I haven't touched a Superman or a Batman comic that wasn't 3 years out of date, and most of my beginning knowledge of Batman comes from the cartoon or Superman cartoon back in the 90s. So why didn't Nolan make it more like the Batman cartoon and kept it PG to have kids watch it instead of a hard Pg-13?
Yes, Transformers basic message is good vs evil but it is much more than that.
Optimus Prime came from nowhere. He was a data entry level worker (or something like that). He rose to become someone, which is a universal message. Megatron was an oppressed miner that went to become a gladitator and rose through brutality there. That sounds kind of like Gladiator the movie. You can convey those simple messages through dialogue and action.
Yes, it is about marketing but you got kids from the 80s and 90s, that read the comics, that know the Transformers. Transformers and most of the 80s cartoons and such had a massive explosion because those that grew up with them were more sophisticated and actually understood storylines.
That is who you market too and expand on that.
BTW Transformers wasn't marketed toward the youth, it was marketed to those that grew up with the cartoon and the comics, hence why it was Pg-13 and had not only a lot of adult humor but also the violence.
What part of Transformer films are not only just made for you & comic book fans are you not getting?
What part of the Dark Knight isn't not sinking in?
What part of the Incredible Hulk not made for comic book fans aren't you getting?
The Incredible Hulk borrowed heavily from the comic book and yes the old television show but as I said, one of the main minor characters was a comic book villain that a lot of people probably didn't know about.
The Dark Knight was a MAJOR, MAJOR blockbuster but it had great characterization, it was dark, it had fights.
Tell me why we get something like Transformers and then tell me why we get something like the Dark Knight and we can't make Transformers into something like the Dark Knight?
And Batman Begins was targeted also for younger kids because they had that the Batman animated series spin off. And then you get the sequel of the Dark Knight and is that targeted toward a young audience? It had to be since they had a huge campaign to get younger audiences.
Batman Begins/the Dark Knight did the same thing, trying to target a younger audience as well. But would you bring in kids to the Dark Knight?
Yes, but its not like the fans want another cartoon, they're happy with the movie we have, and with Animated (or should be) its just a few things that didn't need to be changed that people object to - things like Bumblebee not talking, and the Decepticons having no characterisation. You can do all that stuff in live action, but Bay chose not to.
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Seriously?
You mean the last 3 or 4 pages of John Picard, Capt. Creig, God Magus & myself giving you facts and reasons wasn't already enough?
B-U-D-G-E-T
Seriously, if you are expected to make a blockbuster film for a major studio, you have to learn to think beyond the fan base. The fan based is only a small percentage of the audience you looking to make money from. The complaints are only coming from a small group of fans, the mass public LOVED the film. That's why the film was a success despite what a few fans that can't see beyond themselves believe.
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
Tell me how good were the characterizations in Transformers?
Would you be happy if say Optimus's characterization was transferred to Batman?
While you might not like the comics, AS I SAID, it is a universal theme they could have transferred from the comics to the movie.
I have given you a lot of reasons on how they could tackled not only the budget problem but the universal problem as well.
Again, mass audiences didn't like the Incredible Hulk. (hence why it didn't do that well at the Box office. Did better than the Original Hulk)...
Eh, I'm done. I don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this.
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