Picard should've died in Star Trek: Nemesis...

[OtherGene]

Well they cartainly couldn't do a sequel now with the same cast and a resurrected Shinzon.

Int Romulan Senate, morning

Picard : "I'm here to bring down Shinzon and make him pay for what he's done!"

Shinzon : "I'm Shinzon"

Picard : "No, no, Shinzon was a skinny bald kid. You, sir, appear to be a tatooed muscleman"

Shinzon : "Yes, and I'm Shinzon"

Picard : "I'm so sorry to have troubled you. I'll be on my way. Picard to Enterprise, one to beam up"

Scene

 

[HaventGotALife]

Id have rather seen Picard killed while saving his ship and Earth in the process....and Data inheriting command of the Enterprise....of course the best finale would have been not killing anyone lol

As a hero, I would usually agree with you. But self-sacrifice has been done (Kirk in Generations and STiD, Spock in Khan, and Data in Nemesis). How about a tragic loss, one that mirrors the literature (look up Argos, Scimitar, Praetor in actual historical context) that the movie hints at. And, again, like it or not, families move on from the loss of a patriarch. It is a flavor of humanity that has only been dealt with as a loss that comes too early, because of duty ("The Bonding"), in Star Trek. If they draw on the experience of losing a parent, of having to learn to be there with people who have been there since the beginning, their influence, then they will have told a unique "Star Trek" story. It strengthens, and sharpens, Shinzon's motivations, the need of good leadership to make good people. I refer to classic literature with his "hubris" and "tragic flaw." Picard has wanted a family, at least, since Generations. Realizing his crew is his family, he loses perspective when dangled what he has always wanted--a chance to season himself as a young man, and have a bloodline son (Family, Bloodlines, Generations)! They haven't killed a Captain before, when he is Captain and with his crew. It raises the stakes, and coming earlier, would have allowed us to deal with the fallout of such a tragic loss. If this is the movie they were going to do--Picard should've died, not Data. Data, in terms of sacrifice, has been done.

http://literarydevices.net/tragic-flaw/

 

[shapeshifter]

Definitely not!

You just don't kill off Picard.

I once said the same thing about Captain Kirk.

 

[locutus101]

I once said the same thing about Captain Kirk.

As did a lot of people, including me.

 

[HaventGotALife]

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"RIKER: Is this it?
PICARD: Yes, that's it, Number One. Thank you.
(Picard picks up his family photo-album)
RIKER: I'm going to miss this ship. She went before her time.
PICARD: Someone once told me that time is a predator that stalks us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment, ...because they'll never come again. ...What we leave behind is not as important as how we lived. ...After all, Number One, we're only mortal.
RIKER: Speak for yourself, sir. I plan to live forever.

RIKER: I always thought I'd get a shot at this chair one day.
PICARD: You may still, Will..."

Duty...
A starship captain's life is filled
with solemn duty. I have commanded
men in battle. I have negotiated
peace treaties between implacable
enemies. I have represented the
Federation in first contact with
twenty-seven alien species. But
none of this compares to my solemn
duty as... Best man.
Now, I know that on an occasion
such as this: it is expected that I
be gracious and fulsome with praise
on the wonders of this blessed
union... But have you two
considered what you're doing to me?
This is all a damned
inconvenience...
While you're happily settling in on
the Titan, I'll have to train a new
first officer; you all know him. He is a tyrranical
martinet who will never... ever... allow me
to go on away missions.
Really, it's not too late to
reconsider. No? Very well then...
Will Riker, you have been my
trusted right arm for fourteen
years; you have helped keep my
course true and steady. Deanna
Troi, you have been my guide and my conscience
You have helped me recognize the better parts of myself,
You are my family. And in best
maritime tradition I wish you both...
clear horizons My good friends,
make it so.

A scene in the script, not in the movie...

DEANNA
I would say he's been trained to
resist telepathy. What I could
sense of his emotions were erratic,
very hard to follow.

PICARD
Is he sincere about wanting peace?

DEANNA
I don't know.
(she stops him)
Sir, the strongest sense I had was
that he's more than curious about
you. He very much wants to know
you.
(she looks at him deeply)
The same way you want to know him.

PICARD
How could I not?

DEANNA
Captain, don't assume he's anything
like you are. You should resist
the urge to think you know him.


PICARD
How did you end up on Remus?

SHINZON
They sent me there to die. How
could a mere human survive the
dilithium mines? It was...
(he can't find the words)
... I was a slave. And a monster.
The only thing the Romulan guards
hated more than the Remans was me.
But one man took pity on me: the
man who became my Viceroy. He
taught me how to survive. And in
that dark place, where there was
nothing of myself, I found my Reman
brothers. They showed me the only
kindness I ever knew.

A beat. He glances to the Romulan crest on the wall.

SHINZON
For thousands of years the Romulan
Senate has met in this chamber and
dictated the fate of its sister-
planet... But the time has come for
us to live as equals.

PICARD
You're doing this to liberate the
Remans?

SHINZON
No race should be a slave to
another.

Picard is impressed with Shinzon's quiet words.

SHINZON
You don't trust me.

PICARD
I have no reason to.

SHINZON
Of course you do. If you had lived
my life and experienced the
suffering of my people... you'd be
sitting where I am now. At least I
hope you would.

PICARD
And if you had lived my life you
would understand that there is a
great responsibility in
representing the Federation. I
can't let my personal feelings
unduly influence my decisions.

SHINZON
All I have is my personal feelings.
I wasn't raised with the ideals of
the Federation. But I'm trying to
understand them now. To live up to
them To live up to you.

A beat.

SHINZON
I want to know where I come from.
The Remans gave me a future. You
can tell me about my past.

PICARD
There's so much, and so much of it
is dull...

SHINZON
Were we always explorers?

PlCARD
No. I was the first Picard to
leave Earth. It caused quite a
stir, In fact. But I had spent my
whole life...

SHINZON
(finishing the sentence)
Looking up at the stars.

PICARD
Yes.

SHINZON
And you dreamed about what was up
there. About...

PICARD
(finishing the sentence)
New worlds.


PICARD
Come...
(Beverly enters)
... Beverly, come in.

PICARD
Remember him?

BEVERLY
He was a bit cocky as I recall.

PICARD
He was a damn fool. Selfish and
ambitious. Very much in need of
seasoning.

BEVERLY
He turned out all right.

He rises, goes to a window, gazes at the Scimitar in the
distance. A beat.

PICARD
I so wanted to believe Shinzon.
But the Thalaron radiation can't be
explained away. Whatever he's
after, it's not peace.

BEVERLY
Is he very much like you were?

PICARD
Yes.
--------------------
PICARD
Are you ready to plunge
the entire quadrant into war to
satisfy your own personal demons?

SHINZON
It amazes me how little you know
yourself.

PICARD
I'm incapable of such an act
---------------------------------------------------
VICEROY
Listen to him, android. Such a
small and weak creature. Yet he
roars so valiantly...
(he raises one taloned
claw and puts a sharp
fingernail on Picard's
chest)
It would take me but an instant to
tear that valiant heart from your
chest.

PICARD
There'll be another after me. And
another after that. You'll find
we're a resilient species.
___________________________________

 

[urbandefault]

If they had killed off Picard, it should have been in an avoidable accident. An empty death, like the one he mourned his nephew over. One that left the crew with a WTF moment, that they would have to move past and carry on.

Not every hero dies a hero's death.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Honestly, it reads like cheap shock and awe. No thanks.

Besides, it robs the film of its one distinguishing moment: Shinzon's death, which is one of the most provocative and "intelligent" scenes in any of the original ten films.

 

[HaventGotALife]

Honestly, it reads like cheap shock and awe. No thanks.

A tragic hero's death? Dying by his own hand because he places too much emphasis on the inherent goodness of his bloodline? He mistakenly trusts Shinzon because of that "fatal flaw?"

Challenging one of Star Trek's precepts--that humanity has evolved and that it wasn't the hard work by people to create generations of great people?

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"We do not succumb to Revenge. We have a more evolved sensibility."
"I saw the look on your face when you shot those Borg on the holodeck. You were almost enjoying it."
"How dare you?!?"
"Oh, come on, Captain! You're not the first man to get a thrill from murdering someone! I see it all the time!"
"Get out!"
"Or what!? You'll Kill me?!? Like you killed Ensign Lynch?"
"There was no way to save him."
"You didn't even try! Where was your evolved sensibility then?!?"

I guess you can't please everyone. I am a fan, so maybe, but I think they teed this up for Picard to die, and did nothing like it because they were too committed to making money.

Besides, it robs the film of its one distinguishing moment: Shinzon's death, which is one of the most provocative and "intelligent" scenes in any of the original ten films.

Wow. Please make your argument for that statement.

 

[jaime]

A tragic hero's death? Dying by his own hand because he places too much emphasis on the inherent goodness of his bloodline? He mistakenly trusts Shinzon because of that "fatal flaw?"

Challenging one of Star Trek's precepts--that humanity has evolved and that it wasn't the hard work by people to create generations of great people?

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"We do not succumb to Revenge. We have a more evolved sensibility."
"I saw the look on your face when you shot those Borg on the holodeck. You were almost enjoying it."
"How dare you?!?"
"Oh, come on, Captain! You're not the first man to get a thrill from murdering someone! I see it all the time!"
"Get out!"
"Or what!? You'll Kill me?!? Like you killed Ensign Lynch?"
"There was no way to save him."
"You didn't even try! Where was your evolved sensibility then?!?"

I guess you can't please everyone. I am a fan, so maybe, but I think they teed this up for Picard to die, and did nothing like it because they were too committed to making money.



Wow. Please make your argument for that statement.

Actually I think Stewart just lost the coin toss with Brent Spiner over who gets killed off and gets a death scene...or a facing death scene...In those scenes Picard barely does anything. Ultimately of course, it was that corner of the franchise that won the coin toss without knowing.

 

[22 Stars]

If they weren't going to kill Picard, at least have Shinzon rapidly age through the movie so that by the climax, Stewart could have played both roles. Would have REALLY helped the film's buzz, one-sheet and maybe saved the movie's lackluster script.