Phase II Blood and Fire Part 2 Grading and Commentary

[Pauln6]

There's great value to the multi-episode story arc; I love DS9. But it's not our Phase II show and we don't really want to drag out stories over multiple episodes.

Part of this is simple practicality: we make, basically, one episode a year. So, to have a character introduced in an episode and have hime be part of the family for a while so that the loss will be all the much more greater when we finally get around to depicting the loss of that character *four years from now*, well, my sense is that most of our viewers just aren't as patient as you might be. We got a great deal of grief for dragging out the resolution over nearly a full year. I can't even imagine setting up a narrative four episodes (years) down the road. Hell, I don't even know what I'm doing for lunch tomorrow.

Since, like TOS, Phase II doesn't really have the luxury of multiple episodes to develop a fondness for a character before disposing of him for dramatic purposes, we fell back on the "Balance of Terror" model: two Starfleet lovebirds whose relationship is cut down before it could really flourish. And we saw Edith Keeler introduced and killed in the same episode, yet we felt for her.

We've seen lots of feedback on how much of the relationship should have been portrayed:

* It should have only been hinted at like in the original story
* It shouid be subtle like in Torchwood
* It should have been drawn out over multiple episodes
* It was too graphic
* It wasn't graphic enough
* It was too long
* It wasn't long enough
* It was spoiled by a lighthearted moment at the end
* It was touching and real
* It was plodding and forced and boring
* It was just right
* I'm never watching this show again
* It's about time someone did this story

Lol - yup - you can't please all of the people all of the time and that's especially true of Trek fans! I'm still amazed at how divisive views are on TMP, which I really liked, in spite of the slow pace.

Considering the TOS format, I think the show does an excellent job - although one episode a year is just a tease dammit! My only 'major' criticism is that too many recurring male characters are used compared to the women. Trek did have a 80/20 imbalance anyway with 66/33 in the bacground, (TMP was 60/40 with 50/50 in the background) and Phase II is currently at about 80/20. Even with a TOS feel, I think Trek's view of women has come along far enough to give them some love (no - not that kind of love...)

Uhura's role has been pumped up a bit (nice to see her in the chair at the end) and Rand was originally intended to be one of the top four characters (largely because her role was more mobile than Uhura or Chapel I suppose) so I'd quite like to see Janice pumped up a little bit so that her personality comes through a bit more.

Mind you, as I alluded to earlier, other fans probably hate Rand and instead want Peter to keep taking his shirt off like his uncle. Que sera sera...

 

[Captain Robert April]

Note that I didn't say "settle", I said "take what progress you can get and build from there!"

Civil unions is still better than the status quo, and can be added to, whereas pushing too hard on marriage runs the risk of actually losing a lot of gains that have been made (backlashes can be a bitch once they get started).

As for the "with friends like you, who needs enemies" retort, hey, fine, you think you can take on the Religious Right all on your lonesome, i.e., with even less support than you already have, be my guest. No skin off my butt when you go down in flames.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I'd also like to point out that any time you get a spirited discussion over the issues raised by an episode and not about how dumb something looked, it's a win.

 

[Pingfah]

Hi, not complaining here, just wondering. Is there an ETA for the finished audio yet? I'm still trying to hold off until it's done, but I might break very soon!

 

[GSchnitzer]

Hi, not complaining here, just wondering. Is there an ETA for the finished audio yet? I'm still trying to hold off until it's done, but I might break very soon!

Well, if it's not all finished and available by the end of this month (January), I'd be surprised. (Although unexpected things crop up sometimes.) We want to get it out as much as you want to see it.

Also, this is a reminder that sound is done on the Teaser and Acts 1 and 2. It's the sound for Acts 3 and 4 and the Epilogue that's not finished. I think you would find the episode perfectly tolerable--dare I say, enjoyable?--even with some echo-y sound in the last half. It's also a nice little peek behind the scenes at how even the simplest stuff (like nice clear sound) gets taken for granted and goes completely unnoticed--until it suddenly isn't there. Sometimes the hard work we sink into these episodes, when done well, becomes invisible.

 

[Pingfah]

^ In that case I'll watch the unfinished version afterwards

Thanks for the reply, i'll hold off a bit longer and wait and see. Good luck!

 

[I'm Kirk]

I'll just say I found the two men kissing and one on top of the other extremely gross. That is all I'll say on the topic.

Just as I find the MANY heterosexual displays of affection on Trek (and out in the public at large) to be gross...but I live with it.

Hummm...ok...maybe because male-female relationships were created before male-male? Male and female came first..therefore we see what the intelligent designer had in mind from the beginning.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Hummm...ok...maybe because male-female relationships were created before male-male? Male and female came first..therefore we see what the intelligent designer had in mind from the beginning.

Alternatively, nobody designed any of it. In which case, your point is completely irrelevant, and your reaction has more to do with your own insecurities than anything else.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I think it is worth noting that, at least to my recollection, no other love scene in the entire history of Star Trek went on as long as the makeout session between Peter and Alex, with the possible exception of the travel pod fly-around-the-new-Enterprise scene in TMP (just look at Kirk's eyes and tell me I'm wrong), so there is a definite "in your face, straight guy" impression to be felt by the viewer, whether it was intended or not. I'm still willing to chalk that up to a rookie director mistake, but the fact remains that it goes on too long, to the point that it starts to feel intrusive, and it casts a pretty long shadow across the rest of the episode.

 

[USS Intrepid]

Oh I realise there are plenty of people whose comments, both positive and negative, are purely based on the creative choices made, and that's as it should be.

The homophobia, not so much.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Can't fix a problem if it isn't addressed.

 

[number6]

Oh I realise there are plenty of people whose comments, both positive and negative, are purely based on the creative choices made, and that's as it should be.

The homophobia, not so much.

Agreed. I would prefer this thread be about the merits of the episode instead of "ZOMG-Teh GAYZ!!"

 

[Captain Robert April]

Well, the problem is that, at some point, real people enter the mix, at which point, all bets are off.

 

[I'm Kirk]

Hummm...ok...maybe because male-female relationships were created before male-male? Male and female came first..therefore we see what the intelligent designer had in mind from the beginning.

Alternatively, nobody designed any of it. In which case, your point is completely irrelevant, and your reaction has more to do with your own insecurities than anything else.

Oh I'm totally secure, no homophobia here..I'm not afraid of it, just find it totally disgusting. If you find my comments disgusting then maybe you have a dose of straightphobia or Christianphobia?

 

[Mallory]

Let's drop this line of discussion, OK?

 

[Captain Robert April]

Yeah, discussing the issues the episode has raised is one thing, going off on a tangent is another...

 

[USS Intrepid]

I dunno. I still find it fairly amusing I've been called 'straightphobic' twice in this thread now. I suspect my wife would find it even funnier.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Yeah, I suspect she can come up with several far more accurate phobias....

 

[USS Intrepid]

Almost certainly.

 

[KingstonTrekker]

I'll just say I found the two men kissing and one on top of the other extremely gross. That is all I'll say on the topic.

Just as I find the MANY heterosexual displays of affection on Trek (and out in the public at large) to be gross...but I live with it.

Hummm...ok...maybe because male-female relationships were created before male-male? Male and female came first..therefore we see what the intelligent designer had in mind from the beginning.

WTF? How do you know that? From some ancient fable called Adam & Eve??? Quite frankly, I find any overt public display of affection (straight or gay or bi) to be offensive.

On a more progressive note, two excellent articles appear in the current Newsweek magazine:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/229957/page/1


http://www.newsweek.com/id/229956


​