Phantom Menace is the best Prequel.

[Kegg]

But then there's also the problem with the age between Anakin and Padme. In TPM Anakin is 8 years old and Padme is 17 years his senior.

Padme is meant to be 14 in Phantom Menace. Even if she was Natalie Portman's age - 19 - she wouldn't be 17 years Anakin's senior.

Take from that what you will.

The issue with Anakin being so young in this movie boils down to Lucas saying that he wants the boy leaving his mother to be traumatic and acknowledging that this is more traumatic for an eight year old than a fifteen year old, requiring him to down-age the character. This does put a dent in the romance arc, but - in theory, anyway - I think it had the advantage of postponing the romance entirely to the next film and giving the arc the starting point that for Padme Anakin is still a little kid. Execution clearly left something to be desired, at that.

 

[Pauln6]

I thought Padme was 15, so she would be 25 when he's 18 but mathematics aside, their romance was very unconvincing. I would have liked to see more foreshadowing and more of Palpatine getting his hooks into Anakin in the second movie. I would also have liked to have seen Padme actually do something useful in the third movie.

Vader was unaware that Padme gave birth to twins though. That was the point about splitting the children up. That was why Leia remembered Padme being so sad. That was the dynamic they lost completely by killing her seconds after giving birth for no good reason at all, contradicting Leia's recollections in RotJ. A very odd choice. It's about as strange as having Anakin, an uneducated 8-year old on a backwater planet building a protocol droid fluent in 5 million forms of communication. Presumably he could only speak Hutese and Jive until being reprogrammed at the end of the third movie?

 

[DWF]

It really annoys me when people say that the prequels are good because 'it shows how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader'. Whatever happened to screw Anakin up occured between TPM and AOTC; he went from kind, bright and self-sacrificing to slow witted, bitter and petty.

So he turned into a normal teenager?

Anyone who says Anakin turned to the dark side because he feared losing Padme or whatever is totally delusional. It just seems like eventually someone would have brought him Aquafina instead of Evian or something, and them out comes the lightsaber.

Seeing as how he lost his mother losing Padme should've been enough to turn but it was the constant visions of her death or what he thought was her death that pretty much sent him over the edge and I would think that losing the only other person in one's life after their parent woud turn most people to the dark side of the Froce. There's a good reason why Jedi aren't allowed to marry.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

It really annoys me when people say that the prequels are good because 'it shows how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader'. Whatever happened to screw Anakin up occured between TPM and AOTC; he went from kind, bright and self-sacrificing to slow witted, bitter and petty.

Anyone who says Anakin turned to the dark side because he feared losing Padme or whatever is totally delusional. It just seems like eventually someone would have brought him Aquafina instead of Evian or something, and them out comes the lightsaber.

Um, this is a really good point. The way Anakin snaps at Obi-Wan in the first act of AOTC is totally disconnected from the way Anakin behaves anywhere in TPM. And I agree: we aren't explicitly given any clue as to what the reason for that development is either.

Based on what we know, the only way I can make sense of this is to assume that Anakin's irritability is because he is concerned about the fate of his mother. Obi-Wan seems like he realizes this more or less, when they all too briefly discuss his dreams, but he doesn't act as if he really gives a shit. Padmé is the only person who seems to show Anakin any compassion regarding the issue. Restructuring AOTC so that we see Anakin waking up from a nightmare about his mother dying, at the beginning of AOTC, before his reunion with Padmé, should have better explained his irritability during that reunion I think.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

I would have liked to see more foreshadowing and more of Palpatine getting his hooks into Anakin in the second movie. I would also have liked to have seen Padme actually do something useful in the third movie.

You've touched on what I think is one of the great structural flaws of the Prequel Trilogy -- the story belongs to Palpatine, not to Anakin, but Lucas tells the story so that it's centered on Anakin. Not only is Palpatine the one driving events, but Anakin is Palpatine's creation; Anakin always existed to bring about the end of the Jedi. The drama of the premise should come not from Anakin's fall, since that's pre-ordained, but from the possibility that Anakin doesn't fall. Can Anakin avoid his destiny as Darth Vader? But Lucas either didn't understand that -- or he didn't care.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Anyone who says Anakin turned to the dark side because he feared losing Padme or whatever is totally delusional. It just seems like eventually someone would have brought him Aquafina instead of Evian or something, and them out comes the lightsaber.

I agree. Besides the obvious flaw of the characterization, which was more angsty teenager than someone actually conflicted, I feel it was a mistake to cast Hayden Christiansen. Why not an actor who doesn't look like a scrawny little kid? Also, why not one who is British, like the Anakin we see in Jedi?

I meant with a British accent. Obviously he wasn't really from England. Just the Empire's syringes come from there.

 

[DWF]

I would have liked to see more foreshadowing and more of Palpatine getting his hooks into Anakin in the second movie. I would also have liked to have seen Padme actually do something useful in the third movie.

You've touched on what I think is one of the great structural flaws of the Prequel Trilogy -- the story belongs to Palpatine, not to Anakin, but Lucas tells the story so that it's centered on Anakin. Not only is Palpatine the one driving events, but Anakin is Palpatine's creation; Anakin always existed to bring about the end of the Jedi. The drama of the premise should come not from Anakin's fall, since that's pre-ordained, but from the possibility that Anakin doesn't fall. Can Anakin avoid his destiny as Darth Vader? But Lucas either didn't understand that -- or he didn't care.

Since people went into the prequels pretty much knowing the outcome of the story, it's not possible for Anakin to have avoided his destiny, but in the end he destroyed the Sith as well and Luke brought about a new beginning for the Jedi. It was always Anakin's job to bring balance to the Force.

 

[Trekker4747]

But then there's also the problem with the age between Anakin and Padme. In TPM Anakin is 8 years old and Padme is 17 years his senior.

Padme is meant to be 14 in Phantom Menace. Even if she was Natalie Portman's age - 19 - she wouldn't be 17 years Anakin's senior.

Take from that what you will.

Yeah, I fumbled with the math there, it's what I get for thinking before my afternoon nap. Regardless, Anakin is a child during TPM and Padme is in her teens and ruler of a world which really makes her more of a full-grown woman.

 

[TheLobes]

Anyone who says Anakin turned to the dark side because he feared losing Padme or whatever is totally delusional. It just seems like eventually someone would have brought him Aquafina instead of Evian or something, and them out comes the lightsaber.

Seeing as how he lost his mother losing Padme should've been enough to turn but it was the constant visions of her death or what he thought was her death that pretty much sent him over the edge and I would think that losing the only other person in one's life after their parent woud turn most people to the dark side of the Froce. There's a good reason why Jedi aren't allowed to marry.

So, when he killed all those sand people and then boasted about it to Padme, shouted at everyone, endorsed a dictatorship 'if it works', and decapitates a defeated man... I take it he wasnt over the edge at that point? How was killing Mace Windu something to cement that, when he was also about to kill a defeated man? What makes killing Mace Windu the definitive act that makes him a sith, in place of killing all those women and children? Because right after that is when he gets the crazy eyes, and then immediately starts killing all the children in the jedi temple with very little prompting.

Did killing Windu add +5 negative karma, and push Anakin Skywalker into the 'baddie' range?

Every other jedi we see is totally boring and lifeless. In contrast Anakin was so obviously evil and just spoiling to join the darkside, and he did. In between TPM and AOTC. From the start of AOTC Anakin was already sith, as far as Im concerned. I promise you there is no argument against this. The idea that Padme was what 'pushed him over the edge' is just a flimsy part of the script, put in so people dont have to notice how awful the character arc was.

 

[DWF]

Anyone who says Anakin turned to the dark side because he feared losing Padme or whatever is totally delusional. It just seems like eventually someone would have brought him Aquafina instead of Evian or something, and them out comes the lightsaber.

Seeing as how he lost his mother losing Padme should've been enough to turn but it was the constant visions of her death or what he thought was her death that pretty much sent him over the edge and I would think that losing the only other person in one's life after their parent woud turn most people to the dark side of the Froce. There's a good reason why Jedi aren't allowed to marry.

So, when he killed all those sand people and then boasted about it to Padme, shouted at everyone, endorsed a dictatorship 'if it works', and decapitates a defeated man... I take it he wasnt over the edge at that point?

Every other jedi we see is totally boring and lifeless. In contrast Anakin was so obviously evil and just spoiling to join the darkside, and he did. In between TPM and AOTC. From the start of AOTC Anakin was already sith, as far as Im concerned. I promise you there is no argument against this. The idea that Padme was what 'pushed him over the edge' is just a flimsy part of the script, put in so people dont have to notice how awful the character arc was.

Seeing as how we knew from the start that Anakin was going to become Darth Vader it's VERY unlikely that the prequels were change anything in that regard. And yeah the Jedi are pretty boring, you could see how lively Ben Kenobi was in the OT.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

So far, I've seen the fact that the Jedi were so frakking boring as an outgrowth of 1) setting up the original trilogy and 2) focusing on Anakin.

It would have been so nice for there have been real unexpected surprises in the PT (in addition to Yoda's lightsaber action, and besides the midi-chlorians and the existence of an all but superfluous Jedi named Qui-Gon Jinn).

For example, maybe some romantic temptation for Obi-Wan? I mean, surely it came up for him in his youth at some point, right?

 

[TheLobes]

I mean, surely it came up for him in his youth at some point, right?

Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge.

 

[DWF]

Seeing Obi-Wan luck in bars and cantinas you can tell he can't keep his lightsaber on his belt.

 

[Pauln6]

So, when he killed all those sand people and then boasted about it to Padme, shouted at everyone, endorsed a dictatorship 'if it works', and decapitates a defeated man... I take it he wasnt over the edge at that point? How was killing Mace Windu something to cement that, when he was also about to kill a defeated man? What makes killing Mace Windu the definitive act that makes him a sith, in place of killing all those women and children? Because right after that is when he gets the crazy eyes, and then immediately starts killing all the children in the jedi temple with very little prompting.

Did killing Windu add +5 negative karma, and push Anakin Skywalker into the 'baddie' range?

Every other jedi we see is totally boring and lifeless. In contrast Anakin was so obviously evil and just spoiling to join the darkside, and he did. In between TPM and AOTC. From the start of AOTC Anakin was already sith, as far as Im concerned. I promise you there is no argument against this. The idea that Padme was what 'pushed him over the edge' is just a flimsy part of the script, put in so people dont have to notice how awful the character arc was.

His descent should have begun more clearly and more subtley in the second movie. Visions of Padme screaming could have been shown in his dreams and then we could eventually get to see that this is just labour pains because she's forced to give birth without proper medical treatment due to his actions (without any need for her to die there and then). Maybe Palpatine could have encouraged Anakin to pursue Padme and possibly referred Anakin for general advice to Count Dookoo before it is revealed that he's a jedi wrong un. His jealous reaction to Obi Wan in 3 was well done but flipping the evil switch to murder the younglings was just wierdly convenient.

I also didn't like the way they felt the need to pile on unnecessary amounts of make-up on Palapatine. He's going to age 20 years before RotJ. They could have been a lot more subtle and less cheesy.

 

[TheLobes]

So far, I've seen the fact that the Jedi were so frakking boring as an outgrowth of 1) setting up the original trilogy and 2) focusing on Anakin.

Yeah, after TPM the prequels only ever focused on Anakin, and everybody else just went through filler. The jedi are just there, theyre never explained or even justified in the script, theyre just there.

I really have to be emphatic about the point that they were really only jedi in name only, they were not the jedi on the OT. In the OT it was frequently refered to as a religion, and it took on a more spiritual journey. Call me crazy, but I dont think they choose the next Dalai Lama by medichlorian count.

Theres so much other stuff, but one thing that really stands out for me is when Han Solo says he doesnt believe in the force.

Really, Han? Because, according to the PT, within your life time there was a huge temple of them right in the middle of Coruscant, they were apparently involved in business even as trivial as trade routes, they formed a key part of the biggest war ever, and also your best friend and copilot was a personal friend of one the most famous jedis in the universe.

There was such a sense of honour and grandeur surronding the jedi knights in the OT, but in the PT there were a huge number of them doing absolutely nothing.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Really, Han? Because, according to the PT, within your life time there was a huge temple of them right in the middle of Coruscant, they were apparently involved in business even as trivial as trade routes, they formed a key part of the biggest war ever, and also your best friend and copilot was a personal friend of one the most famous jedis in the universe.

And they were so delusional and so powerless that not only they weren't able to prevent the rise of the Empire, they were completely blindsided by Palpatine. If I were Han, I wouldn't believe in the Force either.

 

[TheLobes]

Really, Han? Because, according to the PT, within your life time there was a huge temple of them right in the middle of Coruscant, they were apparently involved in business even as trivial as trade routes, they formed a key part of the biggest war ever, and also your best friend and copilot was a personal friend of one the most famous jedis in the universe.

And they were so delusional and so powerless that not only they weren't able to prevent the rise of the Empire, they were completely blindsided by Palpatine. If I were Han, I wouldn't believe in the Force either.

Haha, true.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Really, Han? Because, according to the PT, within your life time there was a huge temple of them right in the middle of Coruscant, they were apparently involved in business even as trivial as trade routes, they formed a key part of the biggest war ever, and also your best friend and copilot was a personal friend of one the most famous jedis in the universe..

Exactly. It would be like atheists saying they don't believe in God when people who receive Christian training can move things with their mind, have hyper reflexes, can run 200mph, predict the future, read and influence minds, ect.

Nope! Still don't believe in it...

The Jedi in the PT should have been a secret organization that did things covertly for the good of the Republic. Granted, that brings up questions of morality, but so does taking children away from their parents!

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Exactly. It would be like atheists saying they don't believe in God when people who receive Christian training can move things with their mind, have hyper reflexes, can run 200mph, predict the future, read and influence minds, ect.

Nope! Still don't believe in it...

Not really. It would be like atheists saying they don't believe in God when people who receive Christian training claim that their sacred mission is to protect freedom and democracy.

But they fail. They fail miserably. Not only do they precipitate the fall of democracy, they get completely annihilated in the process.

"But.. but... we can move things with our mind!"
"Yeah, that sounds really useful. You can keep your religion, I think we've seen how effective it really is".

 

[Whofan]

The Rebels still have that "May the force be with us" motto in the OT though. (Although I think the Force Unleashed sort of explained that, but that's mainly EU).