Petition for a return of the "Q Who" - Borg in the Novels!
- Thread starter Unimatrix Q
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I don't see how the Borg from "Q Who" and what we saw later on aretwo separate entities.
In "Q Who", the E-D makes First Contact with them for only a few hours, in which they don't open a dialogue to form a cultural exchange, access Borg computers, conduct a full search of the Cube, so they know knext to nothing about the Borg, other than they are an advanced and powerul species, one that poses a bigger threat to the UFP than the Klingons, Romulans or Cardassians ever did.
Borg would've been assimilating other worlds for their populations as much as their technology, both of which will add to the Collective and fast-track their evolution, making them an even greater threat over time (new tech plus millions more drones).
The Borg may only have been interested in their technology to begin with, but after they thoroughly studied the information retrieved by the drones they sent over (which would include biological details on Federation members), then they would see what species would be worthwhile adding to the Collective.
As for the Queen, I've always seen her as an embodiment of the Collective (a sort of 'hub') rather than their actual leader. She appears to be the one in charge because she is the focus for information, which is sorted, analysed, assessed for probability and success rates, before action is taken. But like I said, that's just how I see her role.
In "Q Who", the E-D makes First Contact with them for only a few hours, in which they don't open a dialogue to form a cultural exchange, access Borg computers, conduct a full search of the Cube, so they know knext to nothing about the Borg, other than they are an advanced and powerul species, one that poses a bigger threat to the UFP than the Klingons, Romulans or Cardassians ever did.
Borg would've been assimilating other worlds for their populations as much as their technology, both of which will add to the Collective and fast-track their evolution, making them an even greater threat over time (new tech plus millions more drones).
The Borg may only have been interested in their technology to begin with, but after they thoroughly studied the information retrieved by the drones they sent over (which would include biological details on Federation members), then they would see what species would be worthwhile adding to the Collective.
As for the Queen, I've always seen her as an embodiment of the Collective (a sort of 'hub') rather than their actual leader. She appears to be the one in charge because she is the focus for information, which is sorted, analysed, assessed for probability and success rates, before action is taken. But like I said, that's just how I see her role.
But try to think of it like a writer. How many stories can you tell about a foe that's only interested in technology and not people? Stories are about characters. There have to be personal stakes. Sure, sometimes the stakes are "Our ship will be blown up and we'll all die," but if every story is so impersonal, it gets boring.
The idea of the Borg being interested only in technology and not in people was abandoned after one episode. And that's because it didn't work. Not dramatically, anyway. There had to be personal stakes in order to sustain the concept.
Let's look at a similar case: Stargate SG-1 did a number of effective episodes about the Replicators, which were self-replicating robots that existed only to seek out advanced technology and incorporate it into new Replicators. That was pretty impersonal, and pretty much like the original concept of the Borg. The Replicators made an impressive debut in a 2-parter, then came back pretty much unchanged in a second story -- although in that story, they were one of two featured enemies. In their third story, they gained a "Queen" of sorts -- an android who turned out to be their creator. And they "evolved" into a humanoid form played by actors from their fourth appearance onward.
Now, the Replicators had some distinct advantages over the Borg. Rather than slow-moving stuntmen in clunky costumes, they were skittering CGI bugs that could take on a variety of visually interesting forms and be quite effectively scary. They were basically the same concept as the "Q Who" Borg, but with much better design and execution. But even they got only one appearance in their pure, original form before the writers started adding more personalizing elements to their comeback stories -- pitting them against more humanoid villains in their second story, giving them an android creator in the third, then finally humanizing the Replicators themselves. Now, personally, I didn't care for the human-form Replicators at all. But I can understand the reasons for introducing them, both dramatic and budgetary.
Think about that word, though: "mysterious." It means that you don't know much about something. But if you bring something back in multiple episodes, it's inevitable that you'll learn more about it each time. Especially when your heroes are Starfleet officers, people trained in exploration, discovery, and problem-solving and who will thus respond to any new threat by learning all they can about it. So anything in fiction, and especially in Trek, is going to be more mysterious in its first appearance than in its tenth. If you want something to stay mysterious forever, pretty much the only way to do that is to avoid reusing it altogether.
That's how I've always seen it. She's like the frontal lobe (IIRC) of the human brain, the part that coordinates the activity of the rest of the brain and gives it a sense of volition and focus. The Borg Collective has always been a single individual mind; the Queen is simply a dramatic contrivance for giving it a face and a voice.
But this is the internet! You're a writer! You're supposed to crank out interesting (yet unthreatening to my established worldview and comfortably never-changing) stories on an extremely regular and frequent basis! For free! Or else you hate the fans!*
*based on a thorough survey of webcomic and artists' discussion boards.
*based on a thorough survey of webcomic and artists' discussion boards.
Ok, I'll go and say it then....
I liked the FC and Voyager Borg. Perhaps the late-Voyager Borg not so much, but the FC version and early Voyager...... Hell yeah!
Ultimatly, the Borg from Q Who would have been as interesting as space anomoly number 5693. Sure, it was a menace, but it was just there. A villian needs to be more then just there. And if there's one thing most Star Trek fans got sick of, it was yet another space anomoly threatening to destroy our heroes without reason.
Unimatrix Q, good antagonists need to be more then just be there, or they become BORING within seconds.
I liked the FC and Voyager Borg. Perhaps the late-Voyager Borg not so much, but the FC version and early Voyager...... Hell yeah!
Ultimatly, the Borg from Q Who would have been as interesting as space anomoly number 5693. Sure, it was a menace, but it was just there. A villian needs to be more then just there. And if there's one thing most Star Trek fans got sick of, it was yet another space anomoly threatening to destroy our heroes without reason.
Unimatrix Q, good antagonists need to be more then just be there, or they become BORING within seconds.
Does anyone here know more about Maurice Hurley's original plans for the Borg than just the Breadcrumbs from Star Trek - The Magazine? Or read unused scripts of the planned arc?
@Christopher: I'd love to read a new DTI Novel? Is there something on the way? Would be glad if Clare would be back! Another i would like to see in a major role in future typhon pact era novels is Ralph Offenhouse. We never really saw, how he has changed since "The Neutral Zone"!
@Christopher: I'd love to read a new DTI Novel? Is there something on the way? Would be glad if Clare would be back! Another i would like to see in a major role in future typhon pact era novels is Ralph Offenhouse. We never really saw, how he has changed since "The Neutral Zone"!
I don't know about a new DTI project anytime soon, but I would be interested, too. But if so, please as a paperback and not ebook only.
Offenhouse appears in the Eugenic Wars novel `The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Sing Vol. 1´ by Greg Cox. Really, you should read this. It has been released by Cross Cult. On the other hand, it's possible that you aren't interested in Khan's past or it doesn't suit your idea of Khan. In this case, it's your loss. Read it and we can discuss.
I don't know about a new DTI project anytime soon, but I would be interested, too. But if so, please as a paperback and not ebook only.
Offenhouse appears in the Eugenic Wars novel `The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Sing Vol. 1´ by Greg Cox. Really, you should read this. It has been released by Cross Cult. On the other hand, it's possible that you aren't interested in Khan's past or it doesn't suit your idea of Khan. In this case, it's your loss. Read it and we can discuss.
I've read them. I found they were great! I like how they made the Eugenic Wars to something like a secret war, most people didn't know about!
But i would especially like a novel about Offenhouse's new life in the 24th century that would also give insight on how the federation economy works!
Wasn't that about Ferengi and a prewarp culture? I also can't remember the details of the story anymore, but one thing i can recall is that Will got foodpoisoning from trying Worfs food
Wasn't that about Ferengi and a prewarp culture? I also can't remember the details of the story anymore, but one thing i can recall is that Will got foodpoisoning from trying Worfs food
I don't know. It's difficult to ask questions like that about old novels. Very old ones, on top of that. I recommend Memory Beta to get some details.
I'm another person who prefered the later Borg. The Q Who Borg were a cool one or two appearance villain, but I think they probably would have gotten boring even quicker than people think the post-Best of Both Worlds and First Contact ones did.
I think we got a great finale for the Borg in Destiny, so I would not want to see them come back.
I think we got a great finale for the Borg in Destiny, so I would not want to see them come back.
Offenhouse was a Federation ambassador to the Ferengi in Debtor's Planet. He doesn't become Secretary of Commerce until later.
As i have seen, here on Trekbbs are always discussions about the economy of the federation. I think many people would like a typhon pact era novel trying to answer these questions. And who would be a better character for this than the Secretary of Commerce, Mr Offenhouse?
Wasn't that about Ferengi and a prewarp culture? I also can't remember the details of the story anymore, but one thing i can recall is that Will got foodpoisoning from trying Worfs food
I remember that one. The cardassians paid off the ferengi to socially engineer a prewarp culture to become pirates and have the knowledge to build powerful ships. They were on the border of the federation so it would make the federation weaker as they would have to commit forces there.
There were sidestories of wes being interested in an insect-ancestry humanoid and riker immersing himself more in klingon culture - he even knew he would get food poisoning from that dish and ate it anyway. Decent book.
Wasn't that about Ferengi and a prewarp culture? I also can't remember the details of the story anymore, but one thing i can recall is that Will got foodpoisoning from trying Worfs food
I remember that one. The cardassians paid off the ferengi to socially engineer a prewarp culture to become pirates and have the knowledge to build powerful ships. They were on the border of the federation so it would make the federation weaker as they would have to commit forces there.
There were sidestories of wes being interested in an insect-ancestry humanoid and riker immersing himself more in klingon culture - he even knew he would get food poisoning from that dish and ate it anyway. Decent book.
That's the one! Wasn't there a plotpoint about Wesley reminding Offenhouse on his son?
Yeah. Offenhouse had a lot of guilt about his son's death. From memory he died in the eugenics war, and offenhouse unknowingly funded the work of the scientists who created the first genetically enhanced humans, so he felt his sons death was his fault.
Oh huh! That fits really well with Offenhouse in Greg Cox's Eugenics Wars; that had to have been a conscious reference, then, I'd think?
Ralph Offenhouse was first established to have become Federation Secretary of Commerce in the Destiny trilogy. It was, however, an off-handed comment; Offenhouse has never appeared in a novel directly as Commerce Secretary, and it's unclear if he stayed on after President zh'Tarash came to office.
I mean, goodness knows I'm a bit of a geek for political economics, but I don't really think a novel about post-scarcity economics in an anti-capitalist Federation would necessarily make for a good story...
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