Pegg updates on script

[BillJ]

If we are at the point where some fans are now clamoring for Orci's script - the same Orci they hated a few months back, the the crazy has really hit the fan.

Definitely feels like we're entering Mirror Universe territory here. Time to go grow a goatee.

 

[Mach5]

If we are at the point where some fans are now clamoring for Orci's script - the same Orci they hated a few months back, the the crazy has really hit the fan.

Definitely feels like we're entering Mirror Universe territory here. Time to go grow a goatee.

Or get rid of one.

 

[Sindatur]

I have a bad feeling about this!

If people felt that Abrams first two Star Trek films weren’t “Star Trek-y”enough I have a feeling they are going to hate Justin Lin’s film.

You are right - the same people who hated the first two nuTrek films will also hate the third, no matter who was directing.

I’m hoping for the best, but to think that Star Trek is going to be directed by the man behind the Fast and Furious films doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence…Quite frankly ST is better than those films. ST is for the thinking man. FF is for dopes who like to see cars crash into each other and “actors” like Vin Diesel and The Rock act like tough guys…It’s bottom of the barrel stuff.

I like to think of myself as a rather smart, sophisticated individual, and I loved the FF films. They were highly entertaining, and occasionally quite poignant. Not every film has to be Shakespeare.

To add to that Star Trek isn’t Guardians of the Galaxy or The Avengers. Those films, while entertaining are comic books. Star Trek at it’s best always aims higher than that.

No. Star Trek aims to be entertaining and profitable, and slides in a message or two to give it a shiny profile of awesome. The franchise's "aim" is not to be a groundbreaking, progressive, message - delivering revolutionary show. It's aim is to make money, and if it manages to do nice things along the way, so be it.

From what I know about Orci’s script, as a die hard ST fan I think I would much prefer his concept rather than trying to make the next film…”a western or a thriller or a heist movie, then populate that with Star Trek characters so it’s more inclusive to an audience that might be a little bit reticent” If that’s the case perhaps those people should go see a western or a thriller or a heist movie and leave Star Trek alone…Every time TPTB try to make ST into something it isn’t it never works.

This is all about greedy accountants trying to make Star Trek into Guardian’s of the Galaxy or The Fast and the Furious…I don’t think its going to work. Orci’s concept would be much better.

If we are at the point where some fans are now clamoring for Orci's script - the same Orci they hated a few months back, the the crazy has really hit the fan.

Eh, it's what always happens

 

[Jedi_Master]

If we are at the point where some fans are now clamoring for Orci's script - the same Orci they hated a few months back, the the crazy has really hit the fan.

Definitely feels like we're entering Mirror Universe territory here. Time to go grow a goatee.

I know a few fans who would gladly throw those who disagree with them into the agony booth.

 

[lurok]

I have a bad feeling about this!

No.

From what I know about Orci’s script, as a die hard ST fan I think I would much prefer his concept rather than trying to make the next film…”a western or a thriller or a heist movie, then populate that with Star Trek characters so it’s more inclusive to an audience that might be a little bit reticent”

I'm sure it's been said before, but as a die-hard - but not fanatic - ST (TV/film) fan, some of the best/most successful concepts have been when co-opted other genres (The Enterprise Incident is one of my all-time faves, and basically a heist; Spectre Of The Gun is one of the most visually striking and intriguing of TOS - and I don't even like Westerns )

 

[fireproof78]

An example of applying another genre to Trek is Star Trek VI. It's basically a Columbo whodunit in outerspace with some Glasnost symbolism and obligatory action bolted on here and there.

So it's hard to know what Pegg means when he says he doesn't want it "Star Trek-y" since there are examples like the above where Trek has gone off in more unusual directions.

Really, his statement is an inkblot. People will interpret it the way they want. Having Justin Lin on board would lend one to believe that the film will indeed be the very sort of Pew Pew that Pegg says he wants to get away from. So what we will wind up with is anyone's guess.

Well, my guess is that Lin is capable of more than pew-pew. His filmography certainly informs that, as does that fact that he was personally impacted by TOS's influence on Asian actors. Also, aside from Joss Whedon, Lin is one of the few directors out there that I would want to direct an ensemble piece like Star Trek.

But, you are right that it is anyone's guess.

As for the 50th Anniversary, shouldn't that be just as much in CBS's court as Paramount's? I personally would like to see a MASH style reunion show with the TOS cast, with guest appearances from other actors from different shows.

Shatner could host, with plenty of clips and discussions about Trek's influence. That would be, in my opinion, a lot of fun and enjoyable.

 

[BillJ]

I like to think of myself as a rather smart, sophisticated individual, and I loved the FF films. They were highly entertaining, and occasionally quite poignant. Not every film has to be Shakespeare.

"Smart" is just a buzzword people slap onto their posts to make them seem to carry more weight than they actually do.

 

[mos6507]

The general rule on the internet is nobody's post ever carries any weight if one disagrees with it. I don't think I've ever actually experienced anyone change their opinion based on an online debate--ever.

 

[Amaris]

The general rule on the internet is nobody's post ever carries any weight if one disagrees with it. I don't think I've ever actually experienced anyone change their opinion based on an online debate--ever.

I have experienced it, myself. My opinions have changed over the years based on new data presented in a number of online debates.

 

[Jedi_Master]

I used to think I was right about everything, but now - thanks to the Interwebs - I know I am right about everything.

Thanks, Al Gore!

 

[fireproof78]

I like to think of myself as a rather smart, sophisticated individual, and I loved the FF films. They were highly entertaining, and occasionally quite poignant. Not every film has to be Shakespeare.

Even Shakespeare was not always Shakespeare. Sometimes it was just as goofy as anything we have today

The general rule on the internet is nobody's post ever carries any weight if one disagrees with it. I don't think I've ever actually experienced anyone change their opinion based on an online debate--ever.

I have experienced it, myself. My opinions have changed over the years based on new data presented in a number of online debates.

I have to agree, and I have experienced it, personally, and seen it. That's part of the exchange of ideas is to explain them and allow others the freedom to make up their minds about it.

Also, if if someone doesn't change their mind, should we stop exchanging ideas and information? I don't agree with everyone, even my best of friends, but that doesn't mean we don't talk about ideas that we disagree about.

Like I said, I love to debate ideas regarding Star Trek. I don't want it to boil down to "Abrams sux! Abrams is the greatest!" because there is so much more to it than that.

My goal is not to change anyone's mind. My goal is to put information out there so that others can learn and I can learn about others.

 

[Rahul]

Best case for Star Trek Beyond:
-Simon Pegg delivers an awesome script, that is both witty and funny and has a tight and focused plot
-Justin Lin (who is a really capable director!) knows that this is his chance to really break out and puts his experience with exciting action and intimacy in a large cast in to deliver a wonderfull movie
-The movie does 'ok' at the box office. Slightly better than Into Darkness, but nothing compared to the smash-hits of the superhero-genre
-Paramount pulls Star Trek back from it's tentpole position, and back to it's original niché, with future products being aimed at a smaller, but more reliable audience (resulting in smaller budgets for future movies, but less meddling from the producers)
-The JJverse is put to a rest, any new Star Trek product tries to 'reconcile' with it's original audience
-CBS finally realizes that Star Trek still does reliable money, that genre-tv is currently the sh#t, and that they've got the ultimate genre-show in their portfolio, giving us finally a new Star Trek series, set in the old universe, slightly influenced by the JJverse in that it is a little bit faster paced, more character oriented and more human
-The series will be a smash hit (because seriously, at this point the market for 'Space Opera' is wide open and unused), resulting in a new era of Star Trek on television and continuing movies.



Worst case:
-the script is quickly rushed together from a mediocre Orci-script, bound by already built sets, and makes no sense and Simon Pegg adds only 'Paul'-like nerdy-references, but is unable to make it coherent or poignant
-Justin Lin is unable to fullfill the (silly) requests by the producers, cannot leave the set due to the way-too-soon release date and gives us a rushed and dumbed-down excuse of an action blockbuster
-the box office in America is bad (let's face it - however good this movie will be - the audience is limited to those people who saw the previous two movies. the third movie of a franchise is always the weakest at the box office). But Asia (especially China and Korea) are lusting for dumb Hollywood-Blockbuster, and it will be the most succesfull Star Trek movie internationally
-Paramount decides not to let this incarnation of the franchise die (because of the overseas-money), and the actors (none of whom had another breakout-role in the last few years) will willingly return
-giving us one rushed, colourful movie with 'splosions after another, that try to descend further away from the original source material and aiming even more for the 'Transformers'-market
-CBS will give us a crappy animated Star Trek series in the JJverse, like Transformers: Prime
-Unlike, say, the clone wars, no one will be watching the new animated series (because it's crap), resulting in CBS thinking there is no market for a Star Trek series, and delaying any plans for future tv-series even further, and we will be stuck with an ongoing movie series with descending quality
-And if we ever get a new television series, it will be heavily influenced by the new movies, it will be on the CW, there will be no scifi-plots, instead every episode a bad guy has to be defeated, and additionally we will get all the teen angst and relationship drama that comes with the CW....


Note: I actually liked the first Star Trek, and think it's biggest weakness is that it is too nerdy, as in: It tries too much to please the Star Trek-crowd with all this alternate timeline/time travel crap, instead of being just "the prequel", or "Star Trek begins". Into Darkness was also enjoyable as hell. It were just (again.. but this time much more visible) the connections and references to the rest of Star Trek's continuity that bogged it down, where it should have just been a clear cut sequel.

 

[JarodRussell]

I enjoy the Fast and Furious films. But they are extremely far away from being good movies. And their direction is certainly not the route I want a Star Trek film to go.

 

[VOODOOXI]

Wasn't Abrams version of Star Trek (which I liked very much) in essence Star Trek's version of Star Wars? Wasn't that meant to be Star Trek's chance at a huge blockbuster?

Point being, they already changed the formula in 2009 (many hardcore ST fans didn't care for it, but the general public seemed to love it) and while Abrams films did quite well at the box office (just remember where ST was before J.J. took over) they didn't do Avengers/Guardians of the Galaxy type business... How much more can they change the formula? At what point does Star Trek cease to be Star Trek? The series has been around 50 years, they must have been doing something right.

Do the people who truly disliked the first two films because there was too much action in them and not enough "Star Trek-y" stuff really think the director of Fast and Furious is going to make the type of film they wanted? Give me a break.

 

[Mudd]

-Justin Lin (who is a really capable director!) knows that this is his chance to really break out and puts his experience with exciting action and intimacy of a large cast in a wonderfull movie

He doesn't have to "break out." He's a hugely successful director. No one in the business underestimates his capability or has failed to notice him. In fact, getting him is a coup for Trek, however it came about.

Best case scenario is actually that this movie makes a huge amount of money so that the studio makes another.

 

[Rahul]

(Honestly, I want to see Star Trek's version of 'Space Cowboys', where a grumpy, old Picard, an even more grumpy Janeway and a somewhat senile Sisko [and whoever is still in shape of their respective crews, Geordi and Seven come to mind] are thrown together to do a final, big mission with the new Enterprise, constantly clashing with "those green amateurs" that are now helming their ship, cheating themselves through the fitness-tests of Starfleet and generally mourning for 'the good old times')

 

[BillJ]

...any new Star Trek product tries to 'reconcile' with it's original audience

Not gonna happen. There simply isn't enough of us folks left to make it worthwhile for CBS.

How much more can they change the formula? At what point does Star Trek cease to be Star Trek?

Star Trek is a flexible format.

 

[Rahul]

-Justin Lin (who is a really capable director!) knows that this is his chance to really break out and puts his experience with exciting action and intimacy of a large cast in a wonderfull movie

He doesn't have to "break out." He's a hugely successful director. No one in the business underestimates his capability or has failed to notice him. In fact, getting him is a coup for Trek, however it came about.

Best case scenario is actually that this movie makes a huge amount of money so that the studio makes another.

Yep, Justin Lin made huge money with F&F. But he is also a little bit bound to genre. I can imagine that he wants to destinguish himself as someone who can be succesfull in different genres, allowing him to get more diverse movies funded in the future.
(And I'm your opinion: The announcement of Justin Lin is currently the biggest reason why I'm cautously optimistic about this movie)

 

[Mach5]

Best case scenario is actually that this movie makes a huge amount of money so that the studio makes another.

That's the best case scenario for Paramount.

Best case scenario for me (I can't speak for you) would primarily mean a good film that makes enough money to warrant another one.

A gazillion-dollar making piece of crap is hardly in your average Star Trek aficionado's best interest. If I wanted that, I'd go see Transformers 4.

Which I did. In 3D.

It was terrible.

I'll go see the fifth one too when it comes out.

 

[Rahul]

...any new Star Trek product tries to 'reconcile' with it's original audience

Not gonna happen. There simply isn't enough of us folks left to make it worthwhile for CBS.

The thing is: There is currently a Star Trek Collection selling in the stores, where people can pay a lot of money to buy models of decade old Starships. And apparently it sells. There is still a Star Trek-related market.
What would be interesting is the following: As it seems, merchandise on "the old" continuity is currently selling better than merchandise for the JJverse. (At least that is what it seems. If anyone has reliably numbers, I would love to hear!)
This could imply the market for the 'traditional' Star Trek is still there, and while this will not affect the big money of blockbusters, it is highly relevant for CBS: Why paying Paramount and Bad Robot lots of license fees to use the JJverse, when they already have the rights to the old (tv)-continuity, and the old one is much more 'merchandisable'?