Patrick Stewart as Shinzon

[marksound]

On the other hand Brent Spiner seems to enjoy split screening different characters rather than having different actors play data's relatives. He pulls it off really well.

Except that having Spiner play Dr. Soong made no sense, because before "Datalore" nobody knew that Soong was Data's creator, and how could they have not known if he looked just like Soong?

Although that bit from "Datalore" never really made sense -- Soong was the guy famous for trying to make a positronic brain when everyone else said it was impossible, and Data had a positronic brain, so his origins should've been pretty self-evident. Still, actually giving Soong and Data the same face just made it more nonsensical that Data's origins were a mystery.

The other factor is that Noonien Soong is a Chinese name, so how did a guy who looks like Brent Spiner end up with it? Soong was going to be played by Keye Luke, but sadly he died just before "Brothers" went into production, which is why they decided to have Spiner play the role. But as impressive a job of acting, makeup, directing, and visual effects "Brothers" was, I'd have been happier if Luke had lived longer and been able to play Soong. It would've made a lot more sense in-universe.

I'm reminded of an episode of ... I can't remember what it was now ... but the protagonists go to a fortune cookie factory and ask for the owner, who has a Chinese name. They are faced with a middle aged white man with a Russian accent who says he is the owner, and when questioned says he was adopted from a Russian orphanage by a Chinese couple.

Hey, it could happen.

 

[Christopher]

Well, I guess in theory it's no weirder than a Korean ensign named Harry. Or a blonde named Leila Kalomi. (Which is a bit of a muddle in itself. The name was coined for a Polynesian love interest for Sulu, before it was rewritten as a Spock episode. But Leila is a name of Semitic/Middle-Eastern origin, not a Polynesian one. Maybe they were thinking of Leilani.)

 

[marksound]

Well, I guess in theory it's no weirder than a Korean ensign named Harry. Or a blonde named Leila Kalomi. (Which is a bit of a muddle in itself. The name was coined for a Polynesian love interest for Sulu, before it was rewritten as a Spock episode. But Leila is a name of Semitic/Middle-Eastern origin, not a Polynesian one. Maybe they were thinking of Leilani.)

In the 22-24th century it could be more common than not.

 

[DWF]

Well, I guess in theory it's no weirder than a Korean ensign named Harry. Or a blonde named Leila Kalomi. (Which is a bit of a muddle in itself. The name was coined for a Polynesian love interest for Sulu, before it was rewritten as a Spock episode. But Leila is a name of Semitic/Middle-Eastern origin, not a Polynesian one. Maybe they were thinking of Leilani.)

Harry Kim is an American he might have some Korean ancestry and seeing as how his parents were naned John and Mary not to mention having an uncle named Jack and a cousin named Dennis, it's not far out for him to be named Harry.

 

[CorporalClegg]

There's nothing odd about "Harry Kim" at all. I know one personally.

It's quite popular for Koreans who migrate to the US to give their children Western first names.

 

[austen_pierce]

what if, after a struggle between two Stewarts, the winner is left ambiguous - and the only thing we know for sure is that the man left alive demonstrates his fundamental goodness, saves the day, and sits (back?) on the center chair of the E-E?

My hat is off to you! End the whole prime universe continuity on a 'who do YOU think it is?' note... sweetness.

hey, "sliders" did that with professor Arturo years before.

I'm not familiar with Sliders. What was the fan response?

 

[Christopher]

There's nothing odd about "Harry Kim" at all. I know one personally.

Which is kind of my point.

 

[Nerys Myk]

On the other hand Brent Spiner seems to enjoy split screening different characters rather than having different actors play data's relatives. He pulls it off really well.

Except that having Spiner play Dr. Soong made no sense, because before "Datalore" nobody knew that Soong was Data's creator, and how could they have not known if he looked just like Soong?

Although that bit from "Datalore" never really made sense -- Soong was the guy famous for trying to make a positronic brain when everyone else said it was impossible, and Data had a positronic brain, so his origins should've been pretty self-evident. Still, actually giving Soong and Data the same face just made it more nonsensical that Data's origins were a mystery.

The other factor is that Noonien Soong is a Chinese name, so how did a guy who looks like Brent Spiner end up with it? Soong was going to be played by Keye Luke, but sadly he died just before "Brothers" went into production, which is why they decided to have Spiner play the role. But as impressive a job of acting, makeup, directing, and visual effects "Brothers" was, I'd have been happier if Luke had lived longer and been able to play Soong. It would've made a lot more sense in-universe.

Same way my cousin is named "Lim". His grandfather was Chinese. And his kids are even further removed from being Chinese even though they also have the name "Lim".

 

[Christopher]

Okay, granted. But it's still disappointing that a character who was conceived as Asian ended up played by a white actor, something that happens far too often in Hollywood. Indeed, it happened twice where Brent Spiner was concerned, since the original conception for Data was to have him look like an Asian or Pacific Islander.

 

[sonak]

My hat is off to you! End the whole prime universe continuity on a 'who do YOU think it is?' note... sweetness.

hey, "sliders" did that with professor Arturo years before.

I'm not familiar with Sliders. What was the fan response?

lots and lots of arguing to this day about which one it was that went with them.

 

[DWF]

Okay, granted. But it's still disappointing that a character who was conceived as Asian ended up played by a white actor, something that happens far too often in Hollywood. Indeed, it happened twice where Brent Spiner was concerned, since the original conception for Data was to have him look like an Asian or Pacific Islander.

And Yar was originally concieved a Latino character based off of a similar character in Aliens who was played a Jew, you're reaching to make a point. And did these revelations destroy your enjoyment of Data or Brothers either for that matter?

 

[Timo]

The underlying issue is a valid point - about as blatant as having the heroes encounter a starship with the name Nostromo very visibly stenciled on the bows in Latin alphabet, beaming aboard, and being surprised that it's crewed by humans.

As a way of rationalization, we could assume everybody already suspected Data was a Soong creation. But since Soong had disappeared in disgrace, he couldn't be interviewed on the issue - and suggesting such parentage might actually have been considered embarrassing for the poor android.

Did Starfleet know Data was positronic, though? He seems willing enough to open up (quite literally!) to certain types of investigators, but had he actually done that before "Datalore"?

Giving an android the face of Soong would probably be a popular thing anyway. Much like giving an android today the face of Einstein or Gibson (Mel or William, depending).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DWF]

The underlying issue is a valid point - about as blatant as having the heroes encounter a starship with the name Nostromo very visibly stenciled on the bows in Latin alphabet, beaming aboard, and being surprised that it's crewed by humans.

Or meeting Apollo in space or an old earth ship holding some 72 genetically engineered criminals from the late 20th century or meeting a race of dinosaurs from earth on the other side of the galaxy.

As a way of rationalization, we could assume everybody already suspected Data was a Soong creation. But since Soong had disappeared in disgrace, he couldn't be interviewed on the issue - and suggesting such parentage might actually have been considered embarrassing for the poor android.

Did Starfleet know Data was positronic, though? He seems willing enough to open up (quite literally!) to certain types of investigators, but had he actually done that before "Datalore"?

Giving an android the face of Soong would probably be a popular thing anyway. Much like giving an android today the face of Einstein or Gibson (Mel or William, depending).

Timo Saloniemi

Data had been active for more than a quarter century by the time of Datalore, I'm sure Starfleet knew alot about Data, they just couldn't reproduce him.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Okay, granted. But it's still disappointing that a character who was conceived as Asian ended up played by a white actor, something that happens far too often in Hollywood. Indeed, it happened twice where Brent Spiner was concerned, since the original conception for Data was to have him look like an Asian or Pacific Islander.

Because of the massive amount of old age makeup on Spiner for the Soong role, I didn't even realize until "Birthright" that Data was supposed to resemble a young Soong.

 

[Timo]

Or meeting Apollo in space or an old earth ship holding some 72 genetically engineered criminals from the late 20th century or meeting a race of dinosaurs from earth on the other side of the galaxy.

Umm, what?

Our heroes never were illogically surprised by these events. They did not fail to take note of early signs blatantly indicating what was to come. So these incidents have nothing in common with either the example I gave, or the case of Starfleet failing to note that Data looks like Soong.

Data had been active for more than a quarter century by the time of Datalore, I'm sure Starfleet knew alot about Data

Well, Spock had been in Starfleet for a long time before we learned his fellow Starfleet officers knew next to nothing about Vulcans - no idea of mind melds, of pon farr, of the seven-year mate-finding cycle, or that Ambassador Sarek is Spock's father (and the father of Spock's half-brother)! Perhaps Starfleet knew about those things, but chose not to tell Kirk, McCoy or other Enterprise officers for reason X... And perhaps Data was kept as an enigma for the same reason X. But that sounds like a pretty ridiculous thing to do.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DWF]

Or meeting Apollo in space or an old earth ship holding some 72 genetically engineered criminals from the late 20th century or meeting a race of dinosaurs from earth on the other side of the galaxy.

Umm, what?

Our heroes never were illogically surprised by these events. They did not fail to take note of early signs blatantly indicating what was to come. So these incidents have nothing in common with either the example I gave, or the case of Starfleet failing to note that Data looks like Soong.

Data had been active for more than a quarter century by the time of Datalore, I'm sure Starfleet knew alot about Data

Well, Spock had been in Starfleet for a long time before we learned his fellow Starfleet officers knew next to nothing about Vulcans - no idea of mind melds, of pon farr, of the seven-year mate-finding cycle, or that Ambassador Sarek is Spock's father (and the father of Spock's half-brother)! Perhaps Starfleet knew about those things, but chose not to tell Kirk, McCoy or other Enterprise officers for reason X... And perhaps Data was kept as an enigma for the same reason X. But that sounds like a pretty ridiculous thing to do.

Timo Saloniemi

Who said that Starfleet was surprised that Data looked liked Soong? Soong's appearance is on record so I cna't imagine why Starfleet might be surprised by how much Data looked like Soong. And as for the rest if the writers and prodicers don't know it, the audience won't know about it either nor will the other characters.