Part of me wished kirk would have joined his crew on Omicron Ceti III
- Thread starter Vaughn Falstaff
- Start date
And whether the spores did good or evil to Sandoval's folks in this specific case. The leader, once cured, laments that the colonists have made no progress in their apparent quest to conquer the planet. Was that ever a worthy goal? We don't learn of a desire to become a major farming world pumping agricultural produce to the galactic market. We learn of a desire to live off the land the old way - and that hardly ever involved expanding much, until the next bunch of settlers came in and demanded land of their own. Perhaps the colonists were happier doing as little as the spore stupor motivated them to do - and would have grown bitter if their expansion project actually moved forward?
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
If not for the spores the colonists on Omicron Ceti Three would have died! And it took Starfleet three years to decide to send a rescue expedition although in their defence Spock does state that Berthold rays are such a new discovery! 
JB
JB
...Kirk wasn't on a mission of rescue. He was there to pick up the corpses and bring closure to the possible relatives.
But the dialogue suggests Sandoval's bunch settled on that planet "knowing there was a risk". Just about the only sensible interpretation of that is that they already knew about the Berthold rays, but at that time did not know they would be deadly. So we have a rough timeline where a risk was understood prior to the launch of the colonizing party, but deadliness was confirmed only after the launch and this knowledge could not be conveyed to the colonists. I wonder how long the flight to Omicron Ceti took...
What is curious about the teaser dialogue is that Kirk apparently feels only a beam-down might expose the crew to this risk (now known to mean certain death, even if only after prolonged exposure). So starship hulls stop Berthold rays?
Just build the next settlement out of starship hull plates, then. Or starship hull plates minus whatever extra protection the local atmosphere provides. Perhaps this is how the Dytallix Corporation came to mine in this system later on?
Timo Saloniemi
But the dialogue suggests Sandoval's bunch settled on that planet "knowing there was a risk". Just about the only sensible interpretation of that is that they already knew about the Berthold rays, but at that time did not know they would be deadly. So we have a rough timeline where a risk was understood prior to the launch of the colonizing party, but deadliness was confirmed only after the launch and this knowledge could not be conveyed to the colonists. I wonder how long the flight to Omicron Ceti took...
What is curious about the teaser dialogue is that Kirk apparently feels only a beam-down might expose the crew to this risk (now known to mean certain death, even if only after prolonged exposure). So starship hulls stop Berthold rays?
Just build the next settlement out of starship hull plates, then. Or starship hull plates minus whatever extra protection the local atmosphere provides. Perhaps this is how the Dytallix Corporation came to mine in this system later on?
Timo Saloniemi
This episode is one of a number of episodes in TOS that espouse the philosophy that humans cannot simply live in a paradise no matter how happy they may be. They are wasting their lives if they are not struggling and suffering to make progress. But isn't that a Western bias? Suppose there are natives living on an island in the Pacific somewhere living exactly the same way their people lived for thousands of years, and they are happy doing so. What's the problem?
I don't see much room for wondering.
So Sandoval's group have been on Omicrnn Ceti III for approximately three years.
Much later Sandoval says:
So it took the Sandoval colony about a year to reach Omicron Ceti III in their last or slow space ship. Thus they should have left Earth approximately four years earlier.
So they left Earth approximately four years ago.
So Spock and Leila were both on Earth for some time about 6 years earlier. That would give about two years for Leila to be on Earth before she left with the Sandoval expedition approximately four years earlier.
So the Sandoval group left Earth approximately four years ago, traveled for approximately one year, and were on Ceti Alpha III for approximately three years. That all adds up approximately, so I don't seen any reason to wonder about the duration of the voyage from Earth to Ceti Alpha III.
The reason why the colonists didn't get any subspace radio warnings after they reached Ceti Alpha III is obvious.
Their only subspace radio doesn't work.
And apparently some members of the group were the crew of the spaceship which brought them there. And apparently the colony disassembled the space ship and removed its subspace radio after landing on Ceti Alpha III. Way to burn your bridges behind you when landing on a planet where previous expeditions mysteriously died.
And apparently they never stopped at any Earth colony or base or met a sh with a working subspace radio during the voyage, since Sandoval says:
If the hull plates and the force shields of the Enterprise can't stop the Berthold rays, the next generation of Federation phasers and Klingon disruptors are likely to have Berthold ray settings
What good would it do to build the buildings of a new settlement out of starship hull plates if the colonists have to work outdoors in the fields exposed to Berthold rays? Of course someone could build an arcology lined with starship hull plating material on Omicron Ceti III with food grown indoors in hydroponic or aeroponic gardens, or synthesized, but that wouldn't be what Oliver Wendal Douglas - I mean Elias Sandoval - wanted.
According to TNG "Conspiracy"
Since Omicron Ceti and Mira are the same star, apparently the third planet out has Earth temperatures and rotation, while the fifth planet out is much hotter and is tidally locked to the star. That is a contradiction.
Since Omicron Ceti is a binary, star, and Mira is the name of Omicron Ceti A, a red giant, Dytallix B that orbits the red giant star Mira must orbit Omicron Ceti A. Thus it is possible that Omicron Ceti III is actually Omicron Ceti B III, orbiting the lesser star Omicron Ceti B. Omicron Ceti B was suspected in 1918 and confirmed in 1923, so if the writers of "Conspiracy" knew that Omicron Ceti was also called Miri, they might have thought that possibly Omicron Ceti III could orbit the smaller star and thus be far from Dytallix B and the intensity of Berthold rays - the source of which is never mentioned - could be different in those two locations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira_B
Omicron Ceti B seems to be a white dwarf star and sufficiently variable itself to have the variable star designation VZ Ceti, so it doesn't seem much more suitable to have such an Earth like planet as Omicron Ceti III than Mira itself is. Possibly there is a third star in the system, much farther from Mira and not yet discovered, and Omicron Ceti III is thus Omicron Ceti C III.
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Yup, my mistake. One year of travel, give or take.
Or they got dropped off. The other established group of interstellar luddites, from "Bring In the Clowns Up the Long Ladder", also chartered a flight instead of purchasing a ship.
But there is this:
Yup. But their chauffeur might have made several drops anyway, at spots that didn't have good communications. Or then the communications were fine, both at those locations and aboard the chartered ship, but the news of Berthold rays being fatal might have been sent out relatively late, only after Sandoval's party had been dropped off.
...Or the generation after the generation after the generation after that, depending on the technological challenge.
I see no problem. The only thing the discovery of the true dangers affects is the ability to found a luddite colony. With the risks known, a non-luddite settlement can practice automated farming, or mining, or other ways of life compatible with the dangers. Obviously not Sandoval's thing at all, but OC III is open to other types of exploiters all right.
Depends, I guess. Class M is likely to be synonymous with terraformed; somebody may have given III a boost and a cold spell. Somebody Ancient, that is: such things are not indicated to be practicable for the UFP quite yet, or at least they won't bother when they have endless Second Earths available elsewhere, or can fire Genesis at optimally spinning dead rocks.
Conversely, a distant rock might get tidally locked simply due to asymmetry, and hot because of atmospheric conditions. Who knows, perhaps the stress from tidal locking in fact results in geological forces that keep the atmosphere thick with exhaust? It happens a bit at Jupiter's moons, say, but we don't know of any solid rules yet.
Absolutely. Although the pair appears to be a close one, indeed close enough to be represented by the classic TNG stock footage of a white star suckling on a red one if necessary, there's the RW observation that OC B might have a protoplanetary disk, thus the ST option that it instead has planets.
It would be fun to assign the deadly properties of the system to the known hiccuping stars therein, though - and then to combine this with classic Trek planetary robustness, which probably is best explained by advanced terraforming. If I were to create whole planets for my civilization, I might indeed go for exotic stars that have brief but interesting lives that nicely energize my civilization. Perhaps OC III was created because of the Berthold rays?
Timo Saloniemi
I wonder if Omicron Ceti Three is isolated by the Federation in the future to stop any hippie groups intent on settling there and having Spore induced bliss as a way of life? 
I wonder why Dr.Sevrin didn't go there?
JB
I wonder why Dr.Sevrin didn't go there?
JB
Well, Kirk demonstrated (or at least insisted on) the authority to remove colonists from the place against their will. His bosses told him to, too. I can't see that easily changing.
But what's to stop folks from taking those spores with them? Presumably the plants are just intermediate hosts, not necessary for the process. Some sort of a Berthold-emitting container might be arranged by the pushers...
Timo Saloniemi
But what's to stop folks from taking those spores with them? Presumably the plants are just intermediate hosts, not necessary for the process. Some sort of a Berthold-emitting container might be arranged by the pushers...
Timo Saloniemi
Just think of all the beneficial medical applications of the OCIII Spores. I figure McCoy would remove the harmful brain effects and develop them to be hypo-injectable to immunize people to Berthold radiation (maybe many types of radiation). In addition, the shot will provide perfect health and body repair. It might not prevent aging, but everyone in the Federation can maintain a healthy life and live to extreme old age. Sounds like the TNG era...is there a connection?
If only they'd visited Omicron Ceti Three before visiting Captain Pike!!!! The Spore technology could have repaired his body...perhaps? Or was it too far gone?
JB
JB
It's always possible that these cures don't really take - or that the more extensive health-restoring effects are only achieved with such prolonged exposure that the victim still dies of Berthold ray effects eventually. Perhaps Sandoval didn't survive for long after leaving the planet, dying in horrible agony even if with his appendix intact?
If not so, taking Pike to OC III would have been an option, I guess. But taking the spores out of OC III might not work: they seem to require, or at least prosper in, Berthold rays, and it might not be possible to produce those artificially.
I wonder where Spock got his odd idea that the spores came from outer space, seeking Berthold rays, and then settled inside these plants? No spore ever spoke to Kirk as far as we can tell, and Spock had no instruments with him after being spored; he abandoned not just his communicator and uniform but also his tricorder. Once again, our best proof for Spock's outrageous claims is that he offers none, and there's no obvious way for him to have obtained any: he's supposed to be right whenever that happens. Perhaps he's in telepathic contact with the Great Script of the Galaxy?
Timo Saloniemi
If not so, taking Pike to OC III would have been an option, I guess. But taking the spores out of OC III might not work: they seem to require, or at least prosper in, Berthold rays, and it might not be possible to produce those artificially.
I wonder where Spock got his odd idea that the spores came from outer space, seeking Berthold rays, and then settled inside these plants? No spore ever spoke to Kirk as far as we can tell, and Spock had no instruments with him after being spored; he abandoned not just his communicator and uniform but also his tricorder. Once again, our best proof for Spock's outrageous claims is that he offers none, and there's no obvious way for him to have obtained any: he's supposed to be right whenever that happens. Perhaps he's in telepathic contact with the Great Script of the Galaxy?
Timo Saloniemi
I'm confident that when Spock says something it is because the writers want us to know it's true, so yes, he is in contact with the Great Script of the Galaxy.
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