Paramount working on DS9 HD?

[Jayson1]

It would still be nice to have the option to choose. Some might be fine with the DVD but others if they want can get the HD version. Granted if they do make in HD you will get the point where that will be the version used on whatever streaming service it be on when it happens. Which is mostly a good thing unless you get a screwup like the Buffy the Vampire layer upgrade in which now the old DVD version is still the better version because they mucked it up.

 

[SCE2Aux]

I find this practice of cropping 90s 4:3 shows into widescreen to be a real headscratcher.
To my knowledge, nobody would think to do that to the old Academy Ratio movies of the early 20th century (and I would've been aghast to discover that my copy of It Happened One Night or Bring Up Baby was so cropped...), so why make such a change to relatively newer media? I'd be interested in a HD DS9, but I feel there should be limits on how far one can update a TV show/film. At some point it should be accepted that shows are just old, and shoehorning them into new standards does them no justice.
Besides, if people reeeeeally want a show blown up to fill a widescreen, their TVs generally have that option in their aspect ratio settings. Let the consumer decide for themselves.

 

[Ssosmcin]

I find this practice of cropping 90s 4:3 shows into widescreen to be a real headscratcher.
To my knowledge, nobody would think to do that to the old Academy Ratio movies of the early 20th century (and I would've been aghast to discover that my copy of It Happened One Night or Bring Up Baby was so cropped...), so why make such a change to relatively newer media? I'd be interested in a HD DS9, but I feel there should be limits on how far one can update a TV show/film. At some point it should be accepted that shows are just old, and shoehorning them into new standards does them no justice.
Besides, if people reeeeeally want a show blown up to fill a widescreen, their TVs generally have that option in their aspect ratio settings. Let the consumer decide for themselves.

The Creature from the Black Lagoon movies were 4:3 on DVD with no evidence of "pan and scan." The shots were framed perfectly for the ratio, just like the classic horror films from a decade or so prior.

The Blu Ray and 4K releases are all in 1.85:1, with loss of top and bottom image. The 1.85:1 has much more grain and feel like a blown up image. I have yet to read any complaints and in fact most reviewers call it its original aspect ratio. But it "looks" blown up. So maybe this is an example or maybe it's not.

 

[Tallguy]

I find this practice of cropping 90s 4:3 shows into widescreen to be a real headscratcher.
To my knowledge, nobody would think to do that to the old Academy Ratio movies of the early 20th century (and I would've been aghast to discover that my copy of It Happened One Night or Bring Up Baby was so cropped...), so why make such a change to relatively newer media? I'd be interested in a HD DS9, but I feel there should be limits on how far one can update a TV show/film. At some point it should be accepted that shows are just old, and shoehorning them into new standards does them no justice.
Besides, if people reeeeeally want a show blown up to fill a widescreen, their TVs generally have that option in their aspect ratio settings. Let the consumer decide for themselves.

IIRC there was a film festival (EDIT: shown in a theater on a screen) in the 90's or 2000's where they showed Singin' in the Rain. (I think this was a Roger Ebert story.) It might have been HBO or Turner or some such. They cropped it because they didn't want people to think it looked like television.

Of course what they had done was crop Gene Kelley's feet!

 

[Ragitsu]

I don't need to pay for wax; I already have plenty of the stuff in my ears.

 

[Relayer1]

Yes, but the colors and details in the designs come out more. I do agree though about the aspect ratio, I am fine with the black bars on the side. I don't want them to stretch the look just to fill the whole tv screen if it is going to make things look bad.

I hate the black bars.

I also hate the blunt force zoom approach and the wierd blanket pan and scan technique.

Would it be too much to ask to treat every shot as best suits it, be it stretching parts of backgrounds, trimming or following the main subject ? Or combinations of these ?

It'll never match true widescreen but better than what we usually get is certainly possible. Plus if the black bars version is included too, everyone's serviced.

 

[Tallguy]

Would it be too much to ask to treat every shot as best suits it, be it stretching parts of backgrounds, trimming or following the main subject ? Or combinations of these ?

Yes.

-- Veteran of the Aspect Ratio Wars since 1992.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Would it be too much to ask to treat every shot as best suits it, be it stretching parts of backgrounds, trimming or following the main subject ? Or combinations of these ?

So you're suggesting they go through every shot of every episode and painstakingly alter each one so it removes the black bars on the side and makes it as "naturally" widescreen as possible?

Yes, that's too much to ask. Just getting a straight upgrade is hard enough.

They will either blow up the image to fill the screen, which will alter the composition of the shots made specifically for 4:3 televisions, cutting off tops of heads and the bottom of the screen. Or they will leave it as is and people who don't like the black bars on the side will either continue to hate them or try to get used to them.

Either way, someone will be annoyed. I personally prefer to keep everything in the ratios in which they were originally shot. I can easily accept black bars on the sides or on the tops or bottoms. As long as all of the information originally included in the original final cuts are there. Black bars become as much of the landscape of my vision as everything OUTSIDE my TV. Having walls and pictures around my TV doesn't bother me either. I "unsee" them and just focus on the image on the television.

 

[Tallguy]

Either way, someone will be annoyed. I personally prefer to keep everything in the ratios in which they were originally shot. I can easily accept black bars on the sides or on the tops or bottoms. As long as all of the information originally included in the original final cuts are there. Black bars become as much of the landscape of my vision as everything OUTSIDE my TV. Having walls and pictures around my TV doesn't bother me either. I "unsee" them and just focus on the image on the television.

This is the way.

 

[David cgc]

And it wouldn't be too much DS9 that'd be 4x3 in a remaster, anyway. Wasn't it only the first season or two that wasn't shot 16x9 safe? Most of the show could be expanded for widescreen without any unfortunate side-effects (as seen in the shots that were remastered in the documentary). It's only when the footage was counting on being cropped to 4x3 that you start to get problems. Maybe if you had more time than was reasonable, you could see if the first two seasons are "good enough" to use the full widescreen frame, but you'd have to go through every shot of every episode first to see how many shots need something cropped or painted out (visible microphones, cameras, and lights, details that disrupt the reality of the scene like a massive crowd that suddenly stops just inside the frame and lets you see most of the room is actually empty or being able to tell that a character who was mostly off-screen was being played by a stand-in or double), and then decide if the 16x9 version is worth doing after the fact before actually committing to it sight-unseen.

That's straight-up not going to happen in any kind of commercial reality. Maybe in the Star Trek future, where a bunch of dedicated artisans who don't have to worry about paying for food or shelter can put as much time as they want lovingly restoring every bit possible of an old TV show, but if there's no guarantee that 99% of the footage for a season is ready to go for 16x9, it's not going to be made that way, at least not without unacceptable corner-cutting.

 

[Relayer1]

So you're suggesting they go through every shot of every episode and painstakingly alter each one so it removes the black bars on the side and makes it as "naturally" widescreen as possible?

Yes.

It'd take two or three tech's with the requisite equipment what, a couple of days per episode ? That'd be about a year's work running just behind the upgrading of the sound and vision, if every season required processing.

It would add substantial value to the property. Upgraded reproduction with best possible widescreening choices future proofs it, making it suitable for licensing to broadcast and stream for the foreseeable future.

Edit - and may just be in time for a physical media release.

 

[David cgc]

It'd take two or three tech's with the requisite equipment what, a couple of days per episode ? That'd be about a year's work running just behind the upgrading of the sound and vision, and would add substantial value to the property.

Have you ever tried? Because I have, more or less, and a week of working-time to do what you're describing for forty-plus minutes of footage seems hopelessly optimistic. Actually, doing it the way you're actually describing it is practically impossible, but the way it would actually have to be done (because, as noted, there is a wider picture on the negatives, it's just potentially full of stuff that shouldn't be there and/or missing stuff that should be there) might be conceivable.

The kind of work you're describing can take dozens or even hundreds of people months to do on a single two-hour movie, in cases like post-converted 3D effects.

 

[StewMc]

If they did end up going back to the negatives and rescanning they’d need to reframe everything anyway wouldn’t they, given the 35mm frame contains far more picture information than what we see onscreen, even if it wasn’t filmed 16x9 “safe”.

CBS (or whoever they contracted it to) did a half decent job remastering Charmed in HD, which seemingly was filmed with the sides protected for a potential future widescreen presentation so all 8 seasons are now true 16x9 for the most part after previously all being 4x3. Only noticeable footage that is cropped is certain shots in the title sequence and most establishing shots of San Francisco (although it looks like that was stock footage that probably didn’t even exist on film in the first place).

 

[Tuskin38]

It would add substantial value to the property.

It would ruin the show because it was never meant to be in wide screen.

That's why TNG and TOS Remastered were still 4:3

I hate the black bars.

Buy a secondary 4:3 TV then. Don't ruin the series for the rest of us.

 

[Commander Troi]

IIRC there was a film festival (EDIT: shown in a theater on a screen) in the 90's or 2000's where they showed Singin' in the Rain. (I think this was a Roger Ebert story.) It might have been HBO or Turner or some such. They cropped it because they didn't want people to think it looked like television.

Of course what they had done was crop Gene Kelley's feet!

AAGH!

 

[Ssosmcin]

It would add substantial value to the property.

Would it? It was the least popular and most overshadowed Trek series of its day. That's one reason why they were able to get away with as much as they did. It's gotten more appreciation over time because of the storytelling. I don't think new Trek fans would be put off by an aspect ratio. They're more turned off by outdated special effects.

The aspect ratio didn't hamper the success of Zack Snyder's Justice League. Nor was it a black mark against the recent Blu Ray release of Babylon 5. People know shows before the HD years are a different ratio.

 

[JoseNoodles]

They cropped and zoomed DS9 and Voyager on BBC America. Made a lot of scenes look awkward, and the credits would be cut off at the bottom.

 

[Ssosmcin]

They cropped and zoomed DS9 and Voyager on BBC America. Made a lot of scenes look awkward, and the credits would be cut off at the bottom.

Cropped for widescreen never looks "right." Even with safe areas and overscan, you're still losing information. Heads get cropped, everything looks a little too tight. Not to mention grain is higher. Lost in Space was cropped for the most recent DVD release and it looks wrong. Not as bad as some others, but it wasn't meant to be seen that way.

 

[Relayer1]

It would ruin the show because it was never meant to be in wide screen.

That's why TNG and TOS Remastered were still 4:3


Buy a secondary 4:3 TV then. Don't ruin the series for the rest of us.

No one's ruining it for anyone.

Unless having more choice somehow "ruins it".

They cropped and zoomed DS9 and Voyager on BBC America. Made a lot of scenes look awkward, and the credits would be cut off at the bottom.

Hence it needing to be done better. If it's not, broadcasters will do it anyway.

Badly.

 

[Tuskin38]

Unless having more choice somehow "ruins it".

Sorry I missed where you said it would be optional.