Obligatory remininder that she didn't know him way back when.
Changing the subject entirely, I've decided not to post my thread Was Jack Crusher gay?
P/C run amok...
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Obligatory remininder that she didn't know him way back when.
Changing the subject entirely, I've decided not to post my thread Was Jack Crusher gay?
Posted by Naraht:
And in INS we had her fastening his collar for him... how middle-aged can you get?
I thought it effectively removed Bev as a romantic interest for Picard - it was almost played in a motherly way!
Yes, my point exactly. It could be viewed as simply making them out to be very, very good friends, but it did it in a way that slighted Beverly as an independent character. It says something that her most important scene in the whole movie is "collar fastener for the captain". Unless it's that scene where she and Troi talk about... no, I can't say it.Posted by Matthew1970:
I thought it effectively removed Bev as a romantic interest for Picard - it was almost played in a motherly way!Posted by Naraht:
And in INS we had her fastening his collar for him... how middle-aged can you get?
And you're mentioning this... why, exactly?Posted by mon capitaine:
Changing the subject entirely, I've decided not to post my thread Was Jack Crusher gay?
Go on and post it, already!
Posted by Naraht:
Unless it's that scene where she and Troi talk about... no, I can't say it.
I thought that the dialogue in question was open to being interpreted as a 'this is how teenage boys think women talk' sequence...
Looks to me like a challenging new interpretation which we all must learn about.
I've started the thread. Let's just hope it doesn't get too bumpy.
You know, I was watching "Encounter At Farpoint" again recently and it did seem like they must have known each other quite well previously. I mean, she was literally crying when she saw him again on the Bridge.
She does give the impression in their later showdown that she isn't all that bothered by his links to Jack.
Although, even if it was thinking about Jack that upset her, they'd have had to have spent more than a little time with Picard for that link between him and Jack to be so strongly forged in her mind, I would think.
Although, even if it was thinking about Jack that upset her, they'd have had to have spent more than a little time with Picard for that link between him and Jack to be so strongly forged in her mind, I would think.
Not necessarily, the men were close friends, so it is quite possible Jack walked out of their home saying I'm off to meet Picard once a week or so on. In this manner the link between Picard and Jack could be formed without Beverly spending a lot of time around Picard.
Also for forming an association between the pair of them in Beverly's mind it is quite probable Jack spoke about Picard a decent amount given their friendship. So she might know a fair amount about Picard through Jack's recount of him at numerous points.
Also Picard brought Jack's body home and it is seems entirely credible that this scene stuck in Beverly's memory. Thus causing a close link, at least initially, between thoughts of Picard and thoughts of Jack.
There's a lot to be read into the writing and playing of that scene where Wesley and Beverly arrive in the turbolift together. Picard is clearly being presented as a possible partner for Beverly and father-figure for Wesley. The moment is full of emotion for Beverly and it's played in such a way as to keep options for the series open. Lots of people on first transmission seemed to think, on the basis of this scene, that Wesley was going to be revealed as Picard's son. I don't think that was necessrily the intention - more that learning to relate to Wesley will be part of Picard's broader horizon-widening experience - but the way in which a Picard-Wesley-Beverly triangle is set up by the scene undoubtedly encourages the audience to think of Picard and Beverly as a future or possibly past couple.
I think that's because of the way Picard reacts to him. Once he's over the initial confrontation with Beverly, Picard can hardly takes his eyes of Jack Crusher's son. And I do think he's regarding him as Jack's boy rather than Bev's.
I agree with you. When Wes says Picard is a pain, Bev reacts by saying his father liked him very much. She doesn't seem to draw on her own relationship with Picard, her information is coming from Jack. She only knows Picard slightly, but evidently wants to know him a whole lot better.
Sadly, I have to agree with you here. He's amazed at the sight of a small version Jack Crusher walking onto his bridge, after all those years. Although the writers of the show themselves seem to have been a little confused about why Picard gives Wesley these special privileges. As the original casting call for Beverly says, if it hadn't been for her beauty and intelligence (and the fact that she has the natural walk... etc etc, you know the drill by now...), Picard never would have agreed to let Wes serve on the bridge. So I think that they saw it both ways.
Also agreed. From the evidence of the novelisation of Encounter at Farpoint, they are supposed to know each other only very slightly... but Picard was supposed to have been somewhat taken by her when they did meet.
In conclusion, I think they managed to set up something quite complex in that initial episode, which can be read in a number of ways. It's a good thing.
Still on "Encounter At Farpoint", what meaning did you guys read into Crusher looking distracted after her line to Wesley about great explorers not having time for families? I just noticed it in watching the episode recently, and I'm not sure what the implication was supposed to be.
^ I'd suggest it is a wistful look about Jack. We don't know much about Jack at that stage except he seemed to have defied some odds and actually been Picard's friend (it takes a lot to make it to first names with J-L). Perhaps at this early stage, Jack was going to be quite similar to Picard? Explaining the friendship, the Bev attraction, and the distracted look about explorer neglecting their families.
Later, of course, Jack becomes more Bev's husband and less Picard's friend.
Later, of course, Jack becomes more Bev's husband and less Picard's friend.
I guess that the other possible spin on it is that she was worried that she herself might now neglect Wesley, given her new posting.
I still don't see what the contradiction is here. Surely there's enough of him to go around?
As for the question, I haven't watched the episode recently enough to analyse the exact mood of the distracted look. But let's go through the possibilities...
- Thinking about how Jack neglected his family, as mon capitaine said (setting up an unhappy marriage, perhaps?)
- Worrying that she might neglect Wesley now that she has this important new postion, as Gold Grizzly said
- Feeling resentful of Picard for not having played a role in his own son's life, not even after Jack was dead.
- Wishing that Picard *had* had time for a family, because she would have liked to have one with him.
- Wondering if Picard will now have time for romance in his life, now that she's on board.
Which is right? No idea. There's no indication in the script, and somehow I doubt that TPTB know what they were getting at exactly. But it is a very nice, very charged moment, and I think that part of that is because of the ambiguity.
I'm sure there is.
I’m just quibbling that at the start of TNG, Jack was defined in terms of Picard – his friend, his dead body delivery service etc. However Picard rarely mentions him, and never gives us any juicy snippets into what he was like whereas Bev does occasionally and hence claims more of an ownership. We really don't know what sort of a friendship Jack and Picard had, but we have some idea of the marriage between Jack and Bev.
How dare she claim ownership of her own husband?
Yes, I know what you mean. It would have been very interesting to hear more about Jack from Picard's point of view. I've tried to show some of their friendship in my re-write of Tapestry (which will probably never get finished, but there you are). Presumably they must have had common interests, or at least a common outlook on life, but it's difficult to discern what that would be exactly.
It's odd: I can imagine Beverly and Jean-Luc being friends, because they are shown as such during the series. Why is it so difficult to imagine the bond between Jack and Jean-Luc?
Perhaps because Jack is never developed beyond the minimum requirements for the backstory. He is a cipher somewhere in Jean-Luc's and Beverly's pasts and there is no room for him to develop beyond that. Maybe.
You have a point. I have much more of a feel for Ian Troi than I do for Jack Crusher. Both got one "not real" appearance (mental image v. holodeck) and Jack certainly got more off-hand mentions. But he doesn't seem real to me the same way (perhaps because his holoprojection wasn't interactive?)
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