P/C run amok...
- Thread starter Naraht
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We happen to love the Vash character.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, to each his/her own.
We're a little confused by this. You say you like the Nella Daren character but saying a character made no impression on you isn't exactly a great endorsement of that character.Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
Too many posts, not enough discussion of Jack Crusher! 
If Jack had known that Jean-Luc and Beverly might get together after his own death, do you think he would have given them his blessing? Would it change their attitude towards the relationship if they could somehow know this?
(Extra credit if Walker Keel is mentioned in your answer.)
If Jack had known that Jean-Luc and Beverly might get together after his own death, do you think he would have given them his blessing? Would it change their attitude towards the relationship if they could somehow know this?
(Extra credit if Walker Keel is mentioned in your answer.)
I think that depends on whether he had any idea Picard was horning after his wife. That sort of thing can colour your judgement. Given that they remained friends I'd say he didn't know and so any deathbed matchmaking, whilst being genuine on Jack's part, would probably just create more guilt for Picard.
Bev would no doubt be blissfully unaware.
As would Walker.
Bev would no doubt be blissfully unaware.
As would Walker.
I hate Vash too. I thought she was cheap, common and trashy.
I couldn't stand Neela Darren either. Far too arrogant. Also too selfish ... never mind that there's a ship with over 1000 people on it and god knows how many departments, stellar cartography must come first, middle and last in Neela's eyes.
As for there not being enough discussion of Jack Crusher... that might be becasue he's DEAD and always was in TNG and was only three appearances (one of them as a corpse) and a few mentions thrught the entirety of TNG. He's just not a big consideration for most people becasue of that.
Well I actually addressed the question Nahrat asked a few pages back without even being asked it ... there are alot of examples in real life of people getting together with a deceased spouses best friend. In this case would Jack Crusher mind if he thoguht they'd get together? Well depends what kind of a guy he is. No one knows really as again he was never a real character. But the way I look at it, is that by the time Beverly comes aboard the enterprise D, JAck has been dead 10 years. Not as if Jean-Luc made a move on her as soon as Jack was dead, in fact they hadn't seen each toher for a decade. Jean-Luc was good to wesley, aloowed him to serve on the bridge at 15, allowed him to live on the enterprise for a year at only 16, encouraged him and was a good role model for him. They developed a good friendship over the series. He is also a good friend to Beverly and cares for her a great deal. I'd like to think that Jack would be ok with Jean-Luc and Beverly geting together. As he is dead, would he rather his wife and son had no-one or a guy who was good to both of them and cared for them. I think any man would rather his wife and child were not alone for the rest of their lives never again having a husband or father figure in their lives. It's just a waste of life to remain true to a ghost for the rest of your life. Anyway, I'd like to think Jack would be happy for them. MAybe happier than he would be if his wife was alone for the rest of her life.
As for Walker Keel... he was good friends with all three and I can't see him having a problem with Jean-Luc and Beverly getting together more than a decade after Jack's death as they are good friends of his. I'm sure he'd be happy for them and if not, who cares. They never see him mcuh anyway... do you let friends dicate how you live your life?
Oh, you have to forgive me my Jack Crusher fixation.
I suppose what I was envisioning is a sort of vision quest sequence like in Journey's End, or perhaps A Christmas Carol, where this wholly unrealistic version of Jack floats up to Jean-Luc and intones: "Just get together with her already, Johnny."
But really that's all tongue in cheek. My personal version is that after serving on the Enterprise, they both end up living in San Francisco, Beverly as head of Starfleet Medical, and Picard in retirement and teaching a few classes at the Academy. Then, with the final obstacle to their relationship removed, it could finally happen.
Posted by Naraht:
Oh, you have to forgive me my Jack Crusher fixation.
I suppose what I was envisioning is a sort of vision quest sequence like in Journey's End, or perhaps A Christmas Carol, where this wholly unrealistic version of Jack floats up to Jean-Luc and intones: "Just get together with her already, Johnny."
But really that's all tongue in cheek. My personal version is that after serving on the Enterprise, they both end up living in San Francisco, Beverly as head of Starfleet Medical, and Picard in retirement and teaching a few classes at the Academy. Then, with the final obstacle to their relationship removed, it could finally happen.
I totally understand the fixation with Jack Crusher
Star trek fans always have their own little thing that really interests them! Unfortunately alot of fans just don't consider him, becasue he is indeed dead... he's easy to forget because of that. It's a shame if you're interested in him though.
I LOVE your ideas though. That would be SO cool to have a vision of Jack giving his blessing. Don't you think it would be better if Beverly had the vision though? As we saw in Attached, she has a harder time that Picard being open to the possibility of a relationship.
Somehting like Jack appearing to Beverly and saying he wants her to be loved and happy rather than alone. And if she finds happiness with Jean-Luc then he'd be okay with that. He was my best friend, I know he's a good man, etc?
It's funny... I ALWAYS imagined Beverly as head of Starfleet medical and Picard as an Admiral or teaching at starfleet academy and the both of them married and living in San Francisco in the future. Great minds think alike
...where are those damn holographic recordings when you need them...
I could tell how Dr. Crusher was looking at Vash and Lt. Commander Darren...
I would've told them to stay out of sickbay...
I would've told them to stay out of sickbay...
Well, exactly!Posted by Amelie:
It's funny... I ALWAYS imagined Beverly as head of Starfleet medical and Picard as an Admiral or teaching at starfleet academy and the both of them married and living in San Francisco in the future. Great minds think alike
I keep meaning to do a story based on those ideas, but I never quite have the time, nor indeed the plot. Still, it would be very sweet. Personally I intend to believe that's what happened whether or not I write a story about it.
It's funny, I always thought that she seemed more threatened by Nella than she did by Vash. With Vash, she just seemed amused at this holiday romance of Picard's; with Nella, though, she obviously *was* giving her dirty looks in Sickbay. I suspect that one of the main reasons that Beverly was wary about pursuing a relationship with Picard was because of the whole serving-on-the-same-ship thing. Thus, seeing him pursuing a relationship with someone else who was serving on the Enterprise was just too much for her.Posted by Peach Wookiee:
I could tell how Dr. Crusher was looking at Vash and Lt. Commander Darren...
I would've told them to stay out of sickbay...
Posted by Whoa Nellie:
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
It's my way of saying I don't hate Vash just because she's a Picard love interest and I ship P/C. I was absolutely fine with Neela. I have no strong feelings about the character, but like her in a passive sense. Which is to say that I don't dislike her and would dislike seeing the character villified simply for being a love-interest of Picard's.
Okay. Now, we see what you were saying.
Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie
One thing about Picard's romantic interests: he did seem to be fairly consistent in the sort of woman that he was attracted to. Kamala describes the personality type as "independent, forceful, brilliant, and adventurous". I would argue that she's right, and I would argue that Beverly Crusher, Phillippa Louvois, Vash and Nella Daren all fit that description. Lily does, although there wasn't a romance in the movie as filmed; Jenice Manheim might; Anij is a bit of an exception, I think.
But what sort of man is Beverly Crusher interested in? Jack Crusher, Jean-Luc Picard, "John Doe," Odan, Ronin... is there a common thread here? If there is, I can't discern it. It's as if the writers didn't really know how to write romances from the female point of view.
But what sort of man is Beverly Crusher interested in? Jack Crusher, Jean-Luc Picard, "John Doe," Odan, Ronin... is there a common thread here? If there is, I can't discern it. It's as if the writers didn't really know how to write romances from the female point of view.
The first thing that strikes me is that these three all have an element of mystery about them. Jack might have done as well, we don't know about that. Picard's not really a mysterious person as such but he doesn't express many of his emotions ...
Perhaps she likes the idea of exploring hidden depths?
Hmmm, the element of mystery. There could be something in that, I guess.
But I still feel unsatisfied with the romances that Beverly was given on the show, with the exception of course of Jack and Jean-Luc. I mean, none of them were even human! (Not that I'm species-ist or anything.) None of them were "normal" aliens either, since there were two non-corporeal beings and one symbiont. It's as if either Beverly herself was sabtaging her own romantic relationships before they started, or (more likely) that the writers simply weren't able to create a plausible love interest for her. I'm tempted to try myself, except that it might impair my (already tenuous) credentials as a P/Cer/
But I still feel unsatisfied with the romances that Beverly was given on the show, with the exception of course of Jack and Jean-Luc. I mean, none of them were even human! (Not that I'm species-ist or anything.) None of them were "normal" aliens either, since there were two non-corporeal beings and one symbiont. It's as if either Beverly herself was sabtaging her own romantic relationships before they started, or (more likely) that the writers simply weren't able to create a plausible love interest for her. I'm tempted to try myself, except that it might impair my (already tenuous) credentials as a P/Cer/
^
I'd say, try it. :thumbsup: If you're unsatisfied with what the writers did with Bev and her love interests, write your own story and *create* a love interest for her or take another, already established character.
This can be *most* refreshing (as I can tell from my own experience as a 'fan fiction writer'
).
And take a look at Deanna's romances, for example. She seems to be dating guys who're either deceiving her in some way, are in love with other women, are intending to rape her in her thoughts (now THAT was a creepy guy
) whatever (don't get me started on Worf - Troi/Worf, now that was just wrong, IMO)... I mean, she even got pregnant! 
(I loved Will's line about "Who's the father?" 
)
It's good that she finally decided to marry Will. What I'm trying to say is that she didn't get quite the 'normal' guys either. Beverly at least had Odan, who truly loved her.
I'd say, try it. :thumbsup: If you're unsatisfied with what the writers did with Bev and her love interests, write your own story and *create* a love interest for her or take another, already established character.
This can be *most* refreshing (as I can tell from my own experience as a 'fan fiction writer'
).And take a look at Deanna's romances, for example. She seems to be dating guys who're either deceiving her in some way, are in love with other women, are intending to rape her in her thoughts (now THAT was a creepy guy
) whatever (don't get me started on Worf - Troi/Worf, now that was just wrong, IMO)... I mean, she even got pregnant! (I loved Will's line about "Who's the father?" ) It's good that she finally decided to marry Will.
What I'm trying to say is that she didn't get quite the 'normal' guys either. Beverly at least had Odan, who truly loved her. You're absolutely right about the shoddy nature of most of Deanna's relationships. I was going to mention that but then got sidetracked. This lends credence to the idea that it's the writers that are at fault, rather than it being a reflection on Beverly as a person. I'm sure if Doctor Pulaski had had any romances on the show, they would also have been with strange, messed-up guys. (Oh, how could I forget... Riker's dad!)
I'm also very glad that Deanna ended up with Will. I was an R/T shipper from way back, long before I was a P/C shipper. In fact, my first piece of fanfic, written when I was all of seven years old, was R/T.
As for writing a new love interest for Beverly, I'm afraid I don't have the time. At the moment I'm 30,000 words into a P/C mirror universe story, and I'm going to need all the help I can get to finish that one!
I'm also very glad that Deanna ended up with Will. I was an R/T shipper from way back, long before I was a P/C shipper. In fact, my first piece of fanfic, written when I was all of seven years old, was R/T.
As for writing a new love interest for Beverly, I'm afraid I don't have the time. At the moment I'm 30,000 words into a P/C mirror universe story, and I'm going to need all the help I can get to finish that one!
^
Hmm, you could store the idea somewhere (I always write my ideas down, that's the safest way - I tend to forget about a lot of things ) and then write the story about Bev and her love interest when you're finished with your mirror universe story (I love MU stories, btw, I had to write one myself, it's the *perfect* universe for nice fantasies 
)
I know a lot of R/T shippers and I've always supported this relationship, too. P/C is a different thing, though. I mean, look at my username...
I totally agree, it's the writer's fault that the TNG women never got a proper relationship in the series - except maybe for Tasha Yar in "Yesterday's Enterprise" with that guy from the Enterprise-C (I forgot his name - see what I mean about forgetting things? )... And, of course, the 'real' Tasha had Data... um...
Well, what I said in the other thread about Jean-Luc might also be true for Beverly, I mean, she could have had a lot of love interests, we just never saw it (which is quite unfortunate, I think).
Hmm, you could store the idea somewhere (I always write my ideas down, that's the safest way - I tend to forget about a lot of things
) and then write the story about Bev and her love interest when you're finished with your mirror universe story (I love MU stories, btw, I had to write one myself, it's the *perfect* universe for nice fantasies )I know a lot of R/T shippers and I've always supported this relationship, too. P/C is a different thing, though.
I mean, look at my username... I totally agree, it's the writer's fault that the TNG women never got a proper relationship in the series - except maybe for Tasha Yar in "Yesterday's Enterprise" with that guy from the Enterprise-C (I forgot his name - see what I mean about forgetting things?
)... And, of course, the 'real' Tasha had Data... um... Well, what I said in the other thread about Jean-Luc might also be true for Beverly, I mean, she could have had a lot of love interests, we just never saw it (which is quite unfortunate, I think).
Posted by MrsPicard:
If you're unsatisfied with what the writers did with Bev and her love interests, write your own story and *create* a love interest for her or take another, already established character.
:thumbsup: That was exactly what we did with our Chakotay/Crusher pairing. Beverly is an intelligent, beautiful woman who deserved a deep, abiding, romantic love with a happy ever after (or Happily After All as their wedding story was titled
) ending after spending all those years as a widow. We actually made it a reunited love with Chakotay being the 'toe-curler' that Beverly referenced in The Price and then the two were reunited post-Endgame in one of our TNG fanfic universes and subsequently married. Deanna is pretty versatile in terms of relationships. She can be done with Worf, our Double Entendre timeline was started when they were together in canon, so we write that pairing there and then switched to a R/T pairing in our Reasons of the Heart timeline when the pairing changed in Insurrection. Deanna is very different with Worf than with Riker, but it has the potential to bring out a lot more of her strength--highlight more of her exotic, half-Betazed nature than a relationship with Riker tends to. We don't really favor one Deanna ship over the other, they're both interesting in different ways. :thumbsup:
Posted by MrsPicard:
I love MU stories, btw, I had to write one myself, it's the *perfect* universe for nice fantasies
Absolutely! We've only done one story set totally in the MU, but we've done four MU/regular universe crossover stories--three of them with Mirror Picard
and one with an alternate Vash. They are a delight to play with, aren't they? Warmest wishes,
Whoa Nellie
^
I've always been curious: how did you come up with Beverly and Chakotay? I mean, I'd never have thought of this, I always thought J/C was the most common relationship when it comes to Chakotay (or perhaps Paris/Chakotay, too ). Not that I mind your C/C idea, not in the slightest! I love to see Bev with another man, that keeps her away from Jean-Luc!
The fact that we've never seen a TNG mirror universe episode makes it even more interesting to imagine a MU Enterprise... Though I'd prefer the "normal" Jean-Luc for myself (yeah, *I* want him, too *lol*), I don't want a guy who'd not hesitate to kill me if it served his purposes
I've always been curious: how did you come up with Beverly and Chakotay? I mean, I'd never have thought of this, I always thought J/C was the most common relationship when it comes to Chakotay (or perhaps Paris/Chakotay, too
). Not that I mind your C/C idea, not in the slightest! I love to see Bev with another man, that keeps her away from Jean-Luc! The fact that we've never seen a TNG mirror universe episode makes it even more interesting to imagine a MU Enterprise... Though I'd prefer the "normal" Jean-Luc for myself (yeah, *I* want him, too *lol*), I don't want a guy who'd not hesitate to kill me if it served his purposes
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