Amen. In addition, I don't trust Orci's "vision" or creative choices - so I am more than happy I didn't have to endlessly defend them in my position as a Knight of the Abrams Table.
Orci's ST3 or Beyond?
- Thread starter Khan 2.0
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Actually, Karl Urban nearly turned down Beyond because he had a busy schedule and there was another movie he was considering which was filming at the same time as Beyond. In the end he went with Beyond because of the script.
The entire point of Last Temptation was that Jesus turned down the 'fix' and took the hard road. He was tempted, he turned away from temptation, he died. End of movie.
That makes me kinda iffy about whether Orci really did intend to bring the two universes together permanently, or just had the possibility of doing so as part of the plot.
Of course, it's possible that I'm being too much of an optimist. Orci may have just (somehow) misunderstood that giving into a 'last temptation' is typically presented as a 'bad' choice.
I think, in the end, Kirk and Spock would not bring the two universes together and all the people who were lost to them... A bit of a conundrum for them like Kirk in The City on the Edge of Forever.
Would have loved to have seen that movie.
Would have loved to have seen that movie.
personally I love the reboot precisely because it's another reality. I love this concept. Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
and I love having my two treks to like and with options for comics, novels etc etc thus even beyond the movies.
There is a lot of potential with a different reality.
a clean reboot is always a possibility but people already complain about this reboot being 'too different' even if it literally is another reality. If this trek was used as a real prequel of tos and the 'new tos', some people would have had a nervous breakdown, probably.
and yet, you have Zoe Saldana who is the most busy of the cast but managed to already do trek, guardians of the galaxy and live by the night in the same year. After giving birth to twins.
heck, when she filmed the first movie she was still doing Avatar! She literally jumped from one set to another (James Cameron recognized the big opportunity she had by playing Uhura and allowed her to leave the set for a while and film trek and then come back to finish avatar)
I too don't think the story would really 'reset' anything. I still dislike this plot because it makes no sense, to me, with the reboot's own narrative and devices as, again, there is no timeline to restore.
That sounds solid, actually. I like the idea of tempting the crew with the possibility of restoring the things in life they've lost.
I don't see your point. It doesn't matter how busy an actor is, it's difficult to the point of impossible to film two movies simultaneously. You know, because people literally can't be two places at once.
my point is that I'm doubtful about what Karl is saying, especially in light of things he had said in the past and, well, his IMDB.
Their contracts weren't valid anymore so they ALL had the option to do what he did, anyway.
I see no reason to doubt him. If there were another movie filming at the same time as Beyond that he was considering, he'd have to make a choice. Hell, either Justin Lin or the director of the other movie might have even said "us or them."
yes im picturing something similar to COTEOF. not a bad one to emulate for the anniversary picture!
I think it would have generated a far more divisive reaction. "Prime" fans who want to go back would either have loved it (the idea of it, anyway) if the old timeline was "restored" OR hated it if, given the chance to "restore" it, they chose not to. Fans of the new timeline would have been similarly happy or upset. The vitriol would have been much more pronounced, I think.
Because, God knows, there have never been conspiracy in Starfleet storylines in Trek before.
Yes that is the feeling for me as well his writing filmography outside of when jj abrams directs the film has been a total mess
perhaps if JJA hadn't been persuaded to direct TFA (think Brad Bird was approached first but was doing Tomorrowland) he would he have gone with/backed Orcis script. completing the JJ/Orci Trek trilogy (like Nolan/Goyer Bat trilogy)..
I don't know why Orci was wanting to direct ST3 without having directed before. couldn't he have just written the script and Lin directed (but then Paramount could've done that but didn't want to I guess. also Nimoys death mustve been a problem for the script but then it could've been rewritten?)
I don't know why Orci was wanting to direct ST3 without having directed before. couldn't he have just written the script and Lin directed (but then Paramount could've done that but didn't want to I guess. also Nimoys death mustve been a problem for the script but then it could've been rewritten?)
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Because, God knows, there have never been conspiracy in Starfleet storylines in Trek before.
There were of course. I was never a fan of them though and I think it was Orci's idea to tell such a story in STID again. If it would have been at least written well, it would have been something, but the plot was a convoluted mess. The other writers seemingly were all about bringing Khan back, which on the other hand Orci was against at first. So STID was a combination of two bad ideas being put badly together.
But outside of Kirk and Spock, who else really "lost" anything in the new timeline? All they had to go on was what SpockPrime said the universe had been like; no tangible proof. And indeed, Uhura and Spock stood to lose their relationship if the timeline reverted. Is that sacrifice worth other potential gains? Kirk brings Pike back, but no longer has a mentor relationship with him, and besides, he's a cripple living in a hallucination on a forbidden planet. And what's the upside for the rest of the crew? For the Federation as a whole?
It seems like it could have been an interesting story, based on these few notes. But how would it have been executed? I'm dubious it would have turned out to be that strong after the compromises that are part of the movie-making process. And since I like a lot of what Beyond accomplished, I think I'll pick the universe as it is over a potential, might-have-been-good-might-have-been-bad alternate universe.
Kirk Prime: You should totally combine the universe's. In my world you would have a son with Carol!
NuKirk: Yay!
Kirk Prime: He'll die a painful, violent and completely pointless death before he reaches 30! After he'd spent 99.9% of his life completely cut-off from you, and hating your guts! Wait...what the fuck am I doing?
*Kirk Prime starts trying to smash the universe combining McGuffin with a rock.*
NuKirk: Yay!
Kirk Prime: He'll die a painful, violent and completely pointless death before he reaches 30! After he'd spent 99.9% of his life completely cut-off from you, and hating your guts! Wait...what the fuck am I doing?
*Kirk Prime starts trying to smash the universe combining McGuffin with a rock.*
I voted Beyond because I like that movie. But Orci's STXIII is one of those interesting "what might have beens". I'm still searching for those older unfilmed star trek movie scripts.
Showing a full relationship between Kirk and Marcus would have rounded off Kirk's maturity. An ongoing heterosexual relationship is also what's missing from Star Trek reboot.
If Marcus was pregnant and captured by Krall, it would have made the stakes much higher for Kirk.
He would have been fighting to save his family, just as Sulu fought to save his on the Yorktown.