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Opinions about Trip and T'Pol

commodore64

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There's a thread about Trip that I think has a lot of T'Pol in it, specifically their relationship. I tried to find the TnT threads hoping to direct folks there, but couldn't. So, let's discuss Trip and T'Pol as a couple.

Feel free. You know how I feel.
 
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Re: Trip and T'Pol

Commie64 opened a TnT thread? Did hell just freeze over? :lol:

Well, I'll just start by saying that for me, that was the only interesting Trek romance since Paris/Torres. Okay, they were no John & Aeryn, but they sure as hell weren't no Neelix & Kes.
 
Re: Trip and T'Pol

Commie64 opened a TnT thread? Did hell just freeze over?

I think so. I liked John/Aeryn quite a bit. See, we can agree on something. Until then, have fun you guys. If you feel like an argument, well ... you know where I am.
 
The thread commie was looking for is the [thread=67533]Trip and T'Pol appreciation thread[/thread]. That one is a pro-Trip/T'Pol shipper thread. It's still alive; feel free to post in there.

This thread seems more suited for anyone's opinions on Trip and T'Pol and their relationship, regardless of shipper affiliation (or lack thereof). I have amended the title accordingly.

This still may be one Trip/T'Pol thread too many, but we'll see how things go.
 
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Re: Trip and T'Pol

Commie64 opened a TnT thread? Did hell just freeze over?
I think so. I liked John/Aeryn quite a bit. See, we can agree on something.
I thought you didn't like that "opposites attract" stuff, because John & Aeryn certainly started off being absolutely nothing alike.

[it is okay to discuss other TV romances in this thread, comparing them to TnT, that is?]
 
Commdore64. I am a Trip and Tpol relatioship fan.

I believe the relationship was the one constant in the series.

My view is that it started a little earlier than others might think. in the end of
Strange New World. when trip says that he was told to control his preconceptionns before they controlled hhim and T-pol says softly "Now is a good time to start."

In unexpected. Archer and Pholox were sympathentic to Trip's dilema but T-Pol seemed to believe it ws trips fault and she was pissed about it even to telling the crew he was pregnant after she swore she wouldn't say anythng. She eemd to feel he should be punished . Which suggests that she had some proprietory feelings toward him. At the end of the episode T-Pol twisted the knife a iittle by telling Trip he was the only Human male who was ever pregnant.

In oasis T-Pol showed her jealousy of the Girl when trip said that the girl was a ood enginer and knew the ships systems very well and would be a great help to T-Pol. the suggestin was turned down by T-Pol and then she reminded trip what had happened when he last encountered a female engineer. Trip said someting like "You will never let me live this down."

Of course in Breaking the ice we see the real start of the relatoinship although it was onlly the beginning of turst and firendship.

Oddly I thiought that in Similtude T-Pol should have shown more concern for Trip. She never visited him once in sickbay or even asked Phlox about his condition.

It goes on through Harbinger and the rest of season three into sason four. throughout the series the relationship was evident if muted.


Yes, I believe the trip and T-Pol relationship was central to the series. Of coure it is just my humble opinon.
 
I like your analysis Penguin, well done.

It goes on through Harbinger and the rest of season three into sason four. throughout the series the relationship was evident if muted.
I would just add that CBS Paramount saw fit to continue their romance in the re-launch series of books and even in the Myriad Universe story "Infinity's Prism."

Yes, I believe the trip and T-Pol relationship was central to the series. Of coure it is just my humble opinon.
And your not alone.
 
I thought you didn't like that "opposites attract" stuff, because John & Aeryn certainly started off being absolutely nothing alike.
I see Trip and T'Pol as: Look! See, one is emotional and one isn't. Isn't that cool?! I think the opening Decon scene kinda sums up the relationship for me -- titilation and nothing more.

I saw John and Areyn actually as a lot alike with a lot of subtlies and nuances that made the pair interesting as well as plausible. And we come to find out in the series that in fact, they're a lot more alike than different (Peace Keepers and humans are related).

Besides John was never like Trip. He was funnier and more commanding with snappier one liners. Trip could've been more like John, but got derailed. (See my thread about Trip.)

Commodore64, May I ask if you are against all relatinships or just this one of Trip/T-Pol.

You may. I like many relationships. GB had a good point -- many space operas include relationships. Farscape was sold as a space opera though, as was Star Wars. Star Trek wasn't, especially as a melodrama as I believe it came out to be imo.

Perhaps you might like a Hoshi/Reed or Hoshi/ Travis or even a Trip/Hosi.

I thought Trip/Hoshi seemed to have more in common and more interest. For example, Observer Effect was fun. Trip and Hoshi seemed like equals who enjoyed each others' company and cared about each other. I'm all about the caring. Caring is paramount to me.

I also think whatever relationship happens deserves little on screen time. The writers couldn't handle mature writing, so tended to be a little juvenile, which hurt the relationship. That goes for Reed/guy, which I thought would've been interesting for Star Trek to attempt.

I seem to get the feeling that it is the trip/T-Pol relationsip you dislike rather than a relationship in the series.

I could go on about this, and I'll try to be kind. I would say it's the worst of the Star Trek relationships (imo) and possibly the worst relationship shown on television. I would go on, but it probably wouldn't end well.

You claim to like Trip. However you don't seem to like T-Pol. so maybe you are offended by the Trip/T-Pol romance?

On the contrary, T'Pol was my second favorite character on Enterprise. I don't like the way she was written in season 4 for the most part and I actually think the idea someone had to conclude her character in their version of TATV sums up why I didn't like her. T'Pol is not human, she's Vulcan. T'Pol was most interesting to me when she was smart, alien and wise -- not impertenent and human.
 
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In my opinion, Trip and T'Pol worked because of the actors chemistry- Connor Trinneer and Jolene Blalock had chemistry. Bakula and Blalock don't, Dominic Keating and Blalock don't and Anthony Montgomery and Blalock don't; Trinneer and Park don't- its all about chemistry.

I saw Jolene's "Slow Burn" and she had no chemistry with either Ray Liotta or Mekhi Phfifer and their sex scenes were about as steamy as C-Span; the shower-scene with Connor in "Damage," now that was steamy!

I'd love to see Connor and Jolene paired up again in another setting, even a Lifetime movie- the chemistry would be there without the Star Trek costumes.
 
I see Trip and T'Pol as: Look! See, one is emotional and one isn't. Isn't that cool?! I think the opening Decon scene kinda sums up the relationship for me -- titilation and nothing more.
OK, if that's how you see it, then that's how you see it. But I strongly disagree with the "one is emotional and one isn't" part.
While Trip certainly is hyper-emotional, T'Pol (just as any other Vulcan) is far from emotionless.

And you mention "titilation." Well, that's a little unfair. Sure, Connor and Jolene were two of the most attractive cast members (judging by preferences on this board and some others), but the thing TnT had going in "Breaking the Ice" was everything but titilation. Of course, this whole neuropressure thing was a little over the top, but episodes like "The Forgotten" show that there was true understanding and trust between the two.

I saw John and Aeryn actually as a lot alike with a lot of subtleties and nuances that made the pair interesting as well as plausible. And we come to find out in the series that in fact, they're a lot more alike than different (Peace Keepers and humans are related).
I don't think that J&A were much more similar initially than TnT were.
John Crichton was this astronaut, a scientist, charming, funny, and a loudmouth (in a good way). A genuine good guy with only the best intentions and healthy (though somewhat boyish) enthusiasm.
Aeryn Sun, on the other hand, was this by-the-book soldier, aggressive, dismissive, racist (pretty much a Nazi, who betrayed the only man she had feelings for before John and gotten him killed, just for the sake of her career). Eventually, she grew a heart, not just thanks to John, but to others on Moya as well. At the same time, somewhere along the way, John [de]volved into a bona fide action hero.

Besides John was never like Trip. He was funnier and more commanding with snappier one liners. Trip could've been more like John, but got derailed. (See my thread about Trip.)
I don't like the idea of Trip becoming a Crichton clone (two Johns were enough, a third would have been a nuisance :)).

Just for comparison, I doubt John would've ever allowed Aeryn to marry, like Trip did with T'Pol in "Home." John would have kicked the 'dren' out of Koss.

I like both Trip and Crichton the same, for what they were. But I also liked J&A for what they were, while I liked TnT for what they could have become. But the writers on Farscape had the 'mojo,' and guys on ENT lacked it.

I also think whatever relationship happens deserves little on screen time. The writers couldn't handle mature writing, so tended to be a little juvenile, which hurt the relationship. That goes for Reed/guy, which I thought would've been interesting for Star Trek to attempt.
You mean, Read/Hays? Well, never having a gay couple on (post TOS) Trek is something you have Rick Berman, our resident homophobe, to thank for.
Here's what Andy Mangels said about this:

"Berman was ultimately responsible for killing almost every pitch for gay characters, and in interviews, was mealy-mouthed and waffling about the need for GLB T representation. At the very least, he was gutless and didn't care about GLBT representation. From the information and evidence I've seen, heard, and read, I believe that Berman is the reason we never saw gays on Star Trek I shed no tears that he's gone, except that he did his best to ruin the franchise on his way out.”

[sorry for going off topic here, couldn't resist, Berman bashing is one of my favorite sports]
 
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What make this relationship work even more than actors' chemistry is that Trinneer and Billingsly are the only regular actors who can play successfully off Blalock's necessary limited or blank facial expression, body language, and vocal inflection. When T'Pol is opposite Trip or Phlox, they feed back on her subtle nuances and the scenes are fluid and enjoyable, such as the sequence with the organic weapon, her cavity, or Trip's confession in 'Breaking the Ice'. Opposite others of the regulars, not. She either seems totally wooden and blank, or goes way overboard trying to make it work with the others, such as when Archer gave her the compass, or in the Vulcan arc (her worst performance as a Vulcan in the series in my opinion, how ironic).
I am much reminded of Kirk and Spock - how Kirk identifies Spock's subtle shifts in emotion and responds to them, when T'pol interacts with Trip and Phlox. She seems most Vulcan, most comfortable in her skin, in those scenes. I think the closest she comes to Spock and Sarek is in the sickbay scene during the Andorian arc when Trip is gently probing her emotions, just as Kirk did to Spock, and her response is classic. It is also pivotal to the relationship, as Trip realizes that at this point in time, T'Pol is focused on rebuilding her life structure.
 
Middleman, Thank you.

I appreciate your comments.

Connor and Jolene did have a lot of chemistry didn't they.

Believe that Connor said in one interview that they discussed their scenes together so that may account for some of the chemistry.


The Trip/T-Pol relationship I came away with is one I believe many would like to have.


Who can define love except in their own hearts.

Trip and T-Pol from two different species find a love that may defy logic but nevertheless exists for them for life.
 
Sure, Connor and Jolene were two of the most attractive cast members
Opinion. I disagree. I think Bakula was much more attractive than Trinneer.

I don't think that J&A were much more similar initially than TnT were.
John Crichton was this astronaut, a scientist, charming, funny, and a loudmouth(in a good way). A genuine good guy with only the best intentions and healthy (though somewhat boyish) enthusiasm.
Here's Sci-Fi's description of John, which I find more accurate: http://www.scifi.com/farscape/characters/crichton.html
John:
* Has Daddy issues, following in his father's footsteps in a space agency
* Is a scientist as well as pilot
* Is a leader that until being shot through a wormhole had untapped potential
* Is interested in adventure, ultimately more than getting home
* Is chosen to carry secrets that will ultimately save the world, but until then has it on the brink of destruction

All those sound like another character to me -- Jonathan Archer. Then again, they're both heroes. Trip was not the hero of Enterprise. And I think personally the only similarities Crichton has with Trip is that they are both Southern and until season 3, Trip had all the funny lines. Trip also apparently wasn't a scientist according to canon; engineers aren't scientists.

Now, about their relationship, I found the writing for John and Areyn much more interesting. They didn't get together because John couldn't sleep and needed massage, nor did Areyn do drugs in order to be able to interact with him better. Instead, they learned to respect each other and found caring before sleeping together.

Connor and Jolene did have a lot of chemistry didn't they.
I didn't think so.
 
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Sure, Connor and Jolene were two of the most attractive cast members
Opinion. I disagree. I think Bakula was much more attractive than Trinneer.
Opinion, sure. But a widely accepted one. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though. I'm a straight guy so my opinion may not be worth much, but I find them both equally handsome

Here's Sci-Fi's description of John, which I find more accurate: http://www.scifi.com/farscape/characters/crichton.html
John has:
* Daddy issues, following in his father's footsteps in a space agency
* Is a leader that until being shot through a wormhole had untapped potential
* Is interested in adventure, ultimately more than getting home
* Is chosen to carry secrets that will ultimately save the world, but until then has it on the brink of destruction.

Trip was not the hero of Enterprise. And I think personally the only similarities he has with Trip is that they are both Southern and until season 3, Trip had all the funny lines.
I agree with Crichton's description, and I already stated that I didn't want Trip to become his clone. But Trip was in fact a hero of Enterprise. Not THE hero (that was supposed to be Archer), but a hero none the less. He averted an interstellar war, for Pete's sake.

Now, about their relationship, I found the writing for John and Areyn much more interesting. They didn't get together because John couldn't sleep and needed massage, nor did Areyn do drugs in order to be able to interact with him better. Instead, they learned to respect each other and found caring before sleeping together.
But sexual tension was there from day one, just like in TnT's case (those two practically engaged in Klingon-style foreplay in "Broken Bow," didn't they? :lol:).

Like I said before, John and Aeryn - handled well (interesting to watch, that confrontation in season 3 finale was superb).

Trip & T'Pol - mostly mishandled, but if Farscape guys had been given a crack at it (David Kemper, for one), they would have done wonders with the two, I have no doubt about it. Mike Sussman came close with "Home" (some say he was pro A/T, but who cares), opened many possibilities for great character drama in S4, but all went down the drain, thanks to Manny Coto himself who had to frak sh#t up with Bound. TnT discovering about their bond could have been a great ep, but they went for comic relief instead. :(
 
Well, I think Trip and T'Pol relationship could have been interesting. I do think there was some chemistry between them and the fact they were so different could have been used to create a conflictual yet in-depth storyline. (I'm also convinced any attempt of Archer-T'Pol relationship would be out of place).
Alas, I don't think the idea was handled well. The neuropressure to begin with - such a crude idea. There were some nice moments in the third season, though and I could forget about the neuropressure: it was the 4th season which ruined the thing for me, going towards some cheap soap novel IMO. Also, T'Pol's emotional side had been handled clumsily, I think: after all, she first becomes involved with Trip because of drugs. Not a very nice beginning.
 
Trip and T'Pol could have worked but I don't believe it ever did. My problems involved the fact that the relationship had very little chemistry. Nothing like Mulder and Scully or Riker and Troi for instance. It also didn't help that the show played the pairing in such a shallow silly way. Had it been imbued with the depth as the scene in "The Forgotten" or in "Terra Prime" that would have helped immensely.

The fascinating thing I've noticed is that fans seem to give the pairing more life than it was actually portrayed onscreen by the writers and actors.
 
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though.
Exactly. I think it's widely believed *here* that Connor is more attractive. I think that says more about the clientelle here than "fact," especially since attractiveness is completely subjective.

I agree with Crichton's description, and I already stated that I didn't want Trip to become his clone. But Trip was in fact a hero of Enterprise. Not THE hero (that was supposed to be Archer), but a hero none the less. He averted an interstellar war, for Pete's sake.
I believe - as per the Power of Myth - that there is typically a "hero" and those that help the hero. I have a signature, it might help to click on the link. For example, Trip wasn't imparted with any special knowledge or skill. Not only was Archer deemed by FG and the TCW to be important, but he was also given Surak's katra.

But sexual tension was there from day one, just like in TnT's case (those two practically engaged in Klingon-style foreplay in "Broken Bow," didn't they? :lol:).
I guess where we part ways is: just like in TnT's case. I thought the "sexual tension" in Broken Bow -- a la the Decon chamber -- was retarded. It made me cringe and I thought, "Oh, no, another Voyager." I'm glad I came back to keep watching, but that one scene nearly chased me away. I mean - no subtlety.

Trip & T'Pol - mostly mishandled, but if Farscape guys had been given a crack at it (David Kemper, for one), they would have done wonders with the two, I have no doubt about it. Mike Sussman came close with "Home" (some say he was pro A/T, but who cares), opened many possibilities for great character drama in S4, but all went down the drain, thanks to Manny Coto himself who had to frak sh#t up with Bound. TnT discovering about their bond could have been a great ep, but they went for comic relief instead. :(
I thought Mike screwed the pooch with Home. Not only did Vulcan seem more like Arizona than an alien planet, but it just made me feel sorrier for Trip rather than "Ah, they care about each other." In other words, I saw the relationship as mostly one-sided. I actually thought Terra Prime with them holding hands was the best attempt by any writer to make me care about the couple. Why? IT SHOWED THEM CARING ABOUT EACH OTHER. To feel any romance, I have to believe it's more than the odd funny line directed at the other or even sexual tension. I have to believe they care about each other. And more than romance, I want ... nay need ... to see a whole ship that cares about each other. Chris Carter, writer for X-Files, had one thing right: show people caring. He didn't personally, or so he says, see a romance between Mulder and Scully. But by making two people of the opposite sex care about each other, he succeeded in ways that most of the writers for Enterprise did not. Startrekwatcher has it exactly right.

I think that is really is in a nutshell the difference between John and Areyn and Trip and T'Pol; John and Areyn cared about each other and you could see that caring in virtually everything they did. I never felt that way about Trip and T'Pol. I thought the writers mostly went for "opposites attract/sexual tension" rather than anything of substance. More over, I thought Ben Browder and Claudia Black who had a lot of chemistry. By Jolene's statement about Trip, I mean -- I guess I could see that more on screen than "Oh, they really do love each other."
 
I believe - as per the Power of Myth - that there is typically a "hero" and those that help the hero. I have a signature, it might help to click on the link.
I like Joseph Campbell a lot too, but having Luke Skywalker as this archetypal kind of hero doesn't mean that Han Solo ain't one as well.
In fact, to paraphrase Peter Jackson: "Most of us were Luke at heart, but we all really wanted to be Han Solo."

For example, Trip wasn't imparted with any special knowledge or skill.
I beg your pardon? He was undoubtedly the most skillful and ingenious member of the crew. That's not even a matter of opinion.

Not only was Archer deemed by FG and the TCW to be important, but he was also given Surak's katra.
Arev (Syrran, whatever) didn't have much of a choice, did he? That katra was not something he earned.

I guess where we part ways is: just like in TnT's case. I thought the "sexual tension" in Broken Bow -- a la the Decon chamber -- was retarded. It made me cringe and I thought, "Oh, no, another Voyager."
Weird, I thought: "Cool, thank God this ain't nothing like Voyager." But then again, I was a teenage kid back then (September '01).

I thought Mike screwed the pooch with Home. Not only did Vulcan seem more like Arizona than an alien planet, but it just made me feel sorrier for Trip rather than "Ah, they care about each other."
Wasn't that intentional? Weren't we supposed to feel sorry for him? By the end of that ep, Trip was officially the biggest loser in the universe.
 
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