Open Speculation about "Star Trek: Picard"

[Donker]

Arguing with closed-minded Trek critics offers a lot of difficulties. Number one being, you're arguing with closed-minded Trek critics.

Hilarious you people call us critics close minded when all you guys do is insult anyone who critiques nu-Trek, ignore all criticisms brushing them off like everyone some delusional Midnights Edge fanboy and then pat yourselves on the back.

Can't wait to see you eat your words when what I say turn out correct just like my predictions from the first episode of Disco S2 about the red angel crap turned out correct because the writing process is blatant as hell. (And hell I gave you guys the benefit of the doubt with the theory they were going to do something clever with Calypso and the red angel being future Discoverys AI, but nope, Calypso is never mentioned again and it just turns out to be

Spoiler: Discovery season 2

saviour Burnham shown as a literal angel flying around while everyone looks on in awe and tells her how important she is and how they love her because they couldn't resist Commander Fan fiction insert not being the bestest and most important Trek character ever)

 

[F. King Daniel]

If we do actually see living, functioning Borg I hope they borrow the concept of the Borg hypercube station from the Shatnerverse novels. A 4-dimensional, MC Escher-style construct which can only exist in transwarp space. We have the technology to depict this.

 

[DaveyNY]

Hilarious you people call us critics close minded when all you guys do is insult anyone who critiques nu-Trek, ignore all criticisms brushing them off like everyone some delusional Midnights Edge fanboy and then pat yourselves on the back.

Can't wait to see you eat your words when what I say turn out correct just like my predictions from the first episode of Disco S2 about the red angel crap turned out correct because the writing process is blatant as hell. (And hell I gave you guys the benefit of the doubt with the theory they were going to do something clever with Calypso and the red angel being future Discoverys AI, but nope, Calypso is never mentioned again and it just turns out to be

Spoiler: Discovery season 2

saviour Burnham shown as a literal angel flying around while everyone looks on in awe and tells her how important she is and how they love her because they couldn't resist Commander Fan fiction insert not being the bestest and most important Trek character ever)

One big difference... the folks you apparently rage against, don't spend their time gloating or even indicating that they will in the BBS.
Personally, I'd gladly give you that "WIN" right now, just to get you to move onto something else.

 

[The Overlord]

I think a extreme Romulan faction is trying to weaponize Borg tech so they can rebuild their Empire, which is a different story related the Borg and lets the Romulans take the spotlight.

 

[penguin44]

I think a extreme Romulan faction is trying to weaponize Borg tech so they can rebuild their Empire, which is a different story related the Borg and lets the Romulans take the spotlight.

Wow, I never thought of that! That actually sounds very interesting

 

[Lord Garth]

It would restore the balance of power in their view. It's traditionally been a three-way power struggle between the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans; with the Federation and Romulans being cold adversaries and the Klingons being the wild card (figuratively and literally) who constantly shifted alliances no matter how much they boast about "honor".

From the Romulan POV, it was bad enough that the Federation and Klingons were closer than ever by the end of DS9. The destruction of Romulus made it even worse.

So I can see the Romulans wanting to use Borg tech to get back in the game, make it a three-way race again, and jump ahead.

 

[Dukhat]

Hilarious you people call us critics close minded when all you guys do is insult anyone who critiques nu-Trek, ignore all criticisms brushing them off like everyone some delusional Midnights Edge fanboy and then pat yourselves on the back.

Can't wait to see you eat your words when what I say turn out correct just like my predictions from the first episode of Disco S2 about the red angel crap turned out correct because the writing process is blatant as hell. (And hell I gave you guys the benefit of the doubt with the theory they were going to do something clever with Calypso and the red angel being future Discoverys AI, but nope, Calypso is never mentioned again and it just turns out to be

Spoiler: Discovery season 2

saviour Burnham shown as a literal angel flying around while everyone looks on in awe and tells her how important she is and how they love her because they couldn't resist Commander Fan fiction insert not being the bestest and most important Trek character ever)

Why is it that you always feel the need to talk about DSC when the topics you reply to are about Star Trek Picard? Funny how you never seem to post in the DSC section even though 100% of your silly rants are about that show. Could it be that you just want to bitch for the sake of bitching because there's a bigger audience here now that people are excited for Picard?

 

[Longinus]

George Lucas would never have done that.

Yes. Instead he made Phantom Menace and those other godawful prequel movies. I have my fair share of criticism towards Disney's SW movies, but one thing is sure, they're million times better than Lucas's prequel trash.

 

[Cyrus]

I have been thinking of Picard show a lot lately. Here are my latest speculations of what we may see on the series:
- Romulans
- Borg cubes
- Data (maybe as a hologram)
- Seven of Nine
- Hugh
- Riker and Troi
- Picard's dog called "number one"
- old Picard

Remember you heard it here first.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Hilarious you people call us critics close minded when all you guys do is insult anyone who critiques nu-Trek, ignore all criticisms brushing them off like everyone some delusional Midnights Edge fanboy and then pat yourselves on the back.

Can't wait to see you eat your words when what I say turn out correct just like my predictions from the first episode of Disco S2 about the red angel crap turned out correct because the writing process is blatant as hell. (And hell I gave you guys the benefit of the doubt with the theory they were going to do something clever with Calypso and the red angel being future Discoverys AI, but nope, Calypso is never mentioned again and it just turns out to be

Spoiler: Discovery season 2

saviour Burnham shown as a literal angel flying around while everyone looks on in awe and tells her how important she is and how they love her because they couldn't resist Commander Fan fiction insert not being the bestest and most important Trek character ever)

Why is it that you always feel the need to talk about DSC when the topics you reply to are about Star Trek Picard? Funny how you never seem to post in the DSC section even though 100% of your silly rants are about that show. Could it be that you just want to bitch for the sake of bitching because there's a bigger audience here now that people are excited for Picard?

Alright, I've been giving both @Donker 's posts and those responding to them a lot of leeway up to this point, but I'm getting tired of the Donker Derailments. If things continue like this, I'm going to start handing out Warnings. Everyone back off and remember the Golden Rule: The post, not the poster.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Since one of the characters is a positronic scientist, I'm thinking Data's consciousness is gonna be uploaded into the holodeck and Picard is going to visit him throughout the show. He'll have no idea what's happened in the past 20 years and it'll be their excuse to fill us viewers in.

 

[Rahul]

Yes. Instead he made Phantom Menace and those other godawful prequel movies. I have my fair share of criticism towards Disney's SW movies, but one thing is sure, they're million times better than Lucas's prequel trash.

I know this is probably a very minority opinion - but I prefer the prequels to anything Disney has done by a mile!

Like, we take all the good stuff from the prequels for granted at this point, because they have been so used and over-used in all other Wars media, from the clone wars, to the rebels cartoon.... And people really only ever see the wooden acting and horrible dialogue writing. But these movies genuinely brought a whole lot of interesting stuff, worldbuilding, lore, and, yes, characters to life.

And if you compare, say, "The Phantom Menace", you will see it's a genuine finished screenplay with three full acts and consequences, compared to a clusterfuck of a screenplay like "Rogue One", in which huge junks of plotlines never have any impact (the squid monster? The whole detour to the rainy planet even though they already knew they have to get the plans?). And relationships that are only told in backstory ("I'm your adopted father! You learned so many skills you never used from me, and now my very first scene is also my emotional goodbye scene. Please cry".). I mean, seriously, when Qui Gon Jin died, he at least had DONE some stuff before during the movie, so that we at least knew what kinda' person he was.

But alas, one of them has X-wings doing dogfights with TIE-fighters and scene from a videogame with Darth Vader. Apparently that's the only thing people want from a Star Wars screenplay. Sigh.

 

[Longinus]

I know this is probably a very minority opinion - but I prefer the prequels to anything Disney has done by a mile!

Like, we take all the good stuff from the prequels for granted at this point, because they have been so used and over-used in all other Wars media, from the clone wars, to the rebels cartoon.... And people really only ever see the wooden acting and horrible dialogue writing. But these movies genuinely brought a whole lot of interesting stuff, worldbuilding, lore, and, yes, characters to life.

And if you compare, say, "The Phantom Menace", you will see it's a genuine finished screenplay with three full acts and consequences, compared to a clusterfuck of a screenplay like "Rogue One", in which huge junks of plotlines never have any impact (the squid monster? The whole detour to the rainy planet even though they already have the plans?). And relationships that are only told in backstory ("I'm your adopted father! You learned so many skills you never used from me, and now my very first scene is also my emotional goodbye scene. Please cry".). I mean, seriously, when Qui Gon Jin died, he at least had DONE some stuff before during the movie, so that we at least knew what kinda' person he was.

But alas, one of them has X-wings doing dogfights with TIE-fighters and scene from a videogame with Darth Vader. Apparently that's the only thing people want from a Star Wars screenplay. Sigh.

Just no. There is exactly one good thing about the prequels, and that is Evan McGregor's performance. Anything else is unmitigated crap. 'The story' is utter childish drivel, dialogue is wooden nonsense. They're a shining examples of abject failure at movie making, utterly embarrassing drivel that would have been mercifully forgotten a long time ago had the name of Star Wars not been attached to them.

 

[eschaton]

Just no. There is exactly one good thing about the prequels, and that is Evan McGregor's performance. Anything else is unmitigated crap. 'The story' is utter childish drivel, dialogue is wooden nonsense. They're a shining examples of abject failure at movie making, utterly embarrassing drivel that would have been mercifully forgotten a long time ago had the name of Star Wars not been attached to them.

The prequels are objectively worse as movies. But in some weird way they're more interesting than Disney Star Wars (if not entertaining), because they weren't written to the modern "save the cat" formula which makes every movie seem exactly the same.

 

[Qonundrum]

If we do actually see living, functioning Borg I hope they borrow the concept of the Borg hypercube station from the Shatnerverse novels. A 4-dimensional, MC Escher-style construct which can only exist in transwarp space. We have the technology to depict this.

And instead of a Borg Queen ruling the nest, the main controller for such a tesseract would be called "The Doctor"!

Just no. There is exactly one good thing about the prequels, and that is Evan McGregor's performance. Anything else is unmitigated crap. 'The story' is utter childish drivel, dialogue is wooden nonsense. They're a shining examples of abject failure at movie making, utterly embarrassing drivel that would have been mercifully forgotten a long time ago had the name of Star Wars not been attached to them.

The prequels are objectively worse as movies. But in some weird way they're more interesting than Disney Star Wars (if not entertaining), because they weren't written to the modern "save the cat" formula which makes every movie seem exactly the same.

The prequels needed another rough draft or six. The base ideas are there but the execution and development are as how Longinus described them. The big big names to play the characters also reminds that the most talented actors can't save hideously bad scripts.

But the plot points the PT have are often more interesting than the ST (DJ being one such exception, of many). The PT tries to form The Empire (over three long flicks) to explain how Episode IV started that way. The ST just plops down half-baked mystery boxes. How did the First Order rise from The Empire? Nope, it's just there like an egg onto a frying pan except 1977's original was the start of the saga, And being episodic in a series of movies where the expanded universe was de-canonized, then the movies have to do the setup. IV got a retroactive setup. VI to VII has nothing and VII would be the only place to do a relevant setup. The ST in some ways isn't any different than the PT, just for different reasons if not inverted.

Actually, VIII or IX could possibly but retroactively sprinkle in enough dialogue but there's no reason VII couldn't have done the right thing, dramatically and thematically strong, at the start. Especially if IX is "damage control", it's going to have to fix so many other issues that the "how" for the First Order is low on the priority list. I just hope they don't refer to the Resistance team as Rebel Scum anymore in what is the laziest callback ever...



Then again, Leia frenched her fraternal brother and in the next movie said she knew all along she was his sister so does any else of it matter when the OT was pretty lax with continuity (and reusing the death star in VI because it had nothing else it could do)? With the years and decades between chapters, these hiccups are inevitable... at least it's easy to redo Rey's true lineage since it could go either way with Ren's trying to lure her to the Dark Side.

 

[eschaton]

The prequels needed another rough draft or six. The base ideas are there but the execution and development are as how Longinus described them. The big big names to play the characters also reminds that the most talented actors can't save hideously bad scripts.

But the plot points the PT have are often more interesting than the ST (DJ being one such exception, of many). The PT tries to form The Empire (over three long flicks) to explain how Episode IV started that way. The ST just plops down half-baked mystery boxes. How did the First Order rise from The Empire? Nope, it's just there like an egg onto a frying pan except 1977's original was the start of the saga, And being episodic in a series of movies where the expanded universe was de-canonized, then the movies have to do the setup. IV got a retroactive setup. VI to VII has nothing and VII would be the only place to do a relevant setup. The ST in some ways isn't any different than the PT, just for different reasons if not inverted.

The basic problem with the prequels is Lucas was working outside of his strengths. If you look at George Lucas's filmography past ANH, he basically relegated himself to being a producer and getting story credit (like in the Indiana Jones movies). He gave up directing, and even in ESB and ROTJ, he let someone else give his scripts the once-over. The only exception is the prequel movies, where be begrudgingly took on all roles because the fans were demanding the movies and no one in Hollywood wanted to share the burden. And indeed, the two biggest flaws in the prequels - by far - are the dialogue and the direction, which Lucas pretty clearly knew weren't his strengths, since he avoided touching those roles for two decades.

If Lucas had found writers to polish his rough ideas, and outside directors, I think the prequels would have turned out to be pretty good movies.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I'm not much of a fan of the prequels, but they're like Shakespeare compared to the...

https://www.trekbbs.com/forums/star-wars.77/

Oh, right.

 

[Tuskin38]

So it sounds like

Spoiler

Riker and Troi might be retired
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/0...onathan-frakes-picard-riker-return-convention

Frakes says they’re still together and it’s “non-military”

 

[Rahul]

The prequels are objectively worse as movies. But in some weird way they're more interesting than Disney Star Wars (if not entertaining), because they weren't written to the modern "save the cat" formula which makes every movie seem exactly the same.

I really don't think they are in any way "objectively" worse. Quite the opposite actually. Everybody just gives the sequels a pass because they deliver on fan service like X-wings and the millennium falcon.

I would compare the prequel trilogy to TNG season 1: Rough. And especially failing at basic things like making the characters likable, and very wooden and un-polished acting. But at the same time bursting with crazy, fascinating and interesting ideas.

Whereas the sequel trilogy is more akin to DS9's season 1: Very polished character work, a well-oiled corporate production line that makes everything look baseline okay and avoids rookie mistakes or too wild concepts. But at the same time boring as hell, and not a single new idea or creative thought found that isn't already a trope.

Luckily both shows gut better, TNG really nailed the character interactions later, and DS9 introduced a lot of interesting ideas with the Dominion and Founders.

But what is "better" really comes down to personal preferences, and I prefer crazy but unfocused creative work by a mile over "enjoyable but uninteresting" stuff.

 

[fireproof78]

I really don't think they are in any way "objectively" worse. Quite the opposite actually. Everybody just gives the sequels a pass because they deliver on fan service like X-wings and the millennium falcon.

Nope.