one thing i never understood about The Way of the Warrior

[indolover]

When the Klingons invade Ops, Sisko, Worf, O'Brien, Dax, and Kira all fight hand to hand with them, but they only trip them or punch them. is this enough to kill a Klingon? Or were they simply unconscious? but what happened if when they woke up, they'd just want to fight kill Sisko and co.! lol..

So if in First Contact, Picard somehow punched Worf after Worf said he'd kill him if he were any other man, would Worf had been a gonna? lol..

 

[DonIago]

I would assume the Klingons were generally stunned or otherwise incapacitated rather than killed, especially since I doubt the Federation had completely given up on salvaging the Khitomer Accords at that point.

Most likely the Klingons beamed back who they could and the rest were imprisoned/extradited/whatever happens in these situations.

 

[Caliburn24]

Starfleet hand to hand combat training stresses hitting nerve clusters and vulnerable joints. And Dax teaches Kira all those moves in that first season episode "How to Punch Your Man". One punch or double fisted hammer slam and even the burliest Klingon or Borg will go down....

...Okay I made that up.

It is television, hand to hand combat on television is one of the most science fiction things ever depicted.

In reality(IE US Army combatives training) we were taught that more than 90% percent of hand to hand fights will end with you grappling and rolling on the ground with your opponent and that strikes(punches, whatever) are far more likely to break your own hand than knockout an opponent.

But that is reality, and it makes for bad TV.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

Its Star Trek. Our heroes were probably using neutrino punches and gravimetric kicks to subdue the Klingons.

 

[Photon]

Its Star Trek. Our heroes were probably using neutrino punches and gravimetric kicks to subdue the Klingons.

Don't forget Quantum Brass Knucks

and

Laser Dioded Shanks

 

[Nightdiamond]

Good observation...


I love pointing this one out;

There's a scene where Dax is fighting off two Klingons.

After pushing off one, she then simply kicks the other Klingon in his mid section, and he goes down.

I remember seeing in the original Trek where they would do those funny looking chops to certain areas that would supposedly knock a humanoid out.

 

[T'Girl]

Perhaps we've all been mistaken about the Klingons being rugged ansd sturdy for years, the reason they never even walk to the bathroom without body armor is because in truth they're a weak species. (Feel a new thread coming)

Literally the first thing they teach you in martial arts is how to fall down, everything else comes after.

 

[Withers]

Good observation...


I love pointing this one out;

There's a scene where Dax is fighting off two Klingons.

After pushing off one, she then simply kicks the other Klingon in his mid section, and he goes down.

I just watched WotW and saw exactly what you are talking about. It isn't even really clear her leg makes contact but based on the way she was standing, she couldn't possibly have kicked him all that hard. Even if she had the Klingon guy collapses as though she shot him. It's kind of funny. I also thought it was funny that everyone was able to use a Bat'leth and not only use one but better than the Klingons (who couldn't even get the upper hand on a Bajoran woman when it was two against one.) Maybe they sent over their Powder Puff Squad or something?

Here's something else to chew on; Kira says she has detected several dozen Klingon ships including their flagship. A few minutes after the battle starts she says that eight of them have been destroyed and several were heavily damaged. The battle keeps going and a few more ships are destroyed.

Starfleet's idea of "reinforcements" was to send six ships? It seemed unreasonable to me based on the fact that 1/3 of the Klingon military was sent to Cardassia. Like... c'mon, SFC, at least send ten or fifteen. Not six.

-Withers-​

 

[Too Much Fun]

I remember seeing in the original Trek where they would do those funny looking chops to certain areas that would supposedly knock a humanoid out.

Yes, no matter how implausible or unconvincing violence on DS9 may be, it is NOTHING compared to the ridiculous chops in the original Star Trek. DS9 action looks like brutally realistic disturbingly graphic combat by comparison.

 

[kristin_110]

TGirl has a great looking avatar

 

[Nightdiamond]

I just watched WotW and saw exactly what you are talking about. It isn't even really clear her leg makes contact but based on the way she was standing, she couldn't possibly have kicked him all that hard.

Even if she had the Klingon guy collapses as though she shot him. It's kind of funny. I also thought it was funny that everyone was able to use a Bat'leth and not only use one but better than the Klingons (who couldn't even get the upper hand on a Bajoran woman when it was two against one.) Maybe they sent over their Powder Puff Squad or something?

Here's something else to chew on; Kira says she has detected several dozen Klingon ships including their flagship. A few minutes after the battle starts she says that eight of them have been destroyed and several were heavily damaged. The battle keeps going and a few more ships are destroyed.

.

-Withers-​

I looked at it again and thought someone else may have taken him out, but I don't see it. He just goes down and stays there.

There a few strange fight sequences in this one...

Like you said, Dukat is holding off two Klingons at a time with a Bat-leth and winning at it.

Garak is standing right behind/front of them, and they're having this almost casual conversation.

I expect Worf, and maybe Dax to be that good, but the others are beating the Klingons on their territory sort of speak.. (glad they are, they are on our side though lol)

Now, I loved Kira's scene however - she really looked like a highly trained resistance solider when she got stabbed, pulled out the blade, took out the attacker, then let herself collapse.

Starfleet's idea of "reinforcements" was to send six ships? It seemed unreasonable to me based on the fact that 1/3 of the Klingon military was sent to Cardassia. Like... c'mon, SFC, at least send ten or fifteen. Not six

Yes, they did the same thing in the "Die is Cast" -after they learn that the Dominion might counterattack the Alpha Quandrant, an admiral sends a task force of just nine ships -just nine-and this seems to be before the weapons upgrade, or the shield improvements.

 

[Cyke101]

Starfleet's idea of "reinforcements" was to send six ships? It seemed unreasonable to me based on the fact that 1/3 of the Klingon military was sent to Cardassia. Like... c'mon, SFC, at least send ten or fifteen. Not six.

-Withers-​

At first I had issues with this point too, but then again DS9 took out quite a number of ships by herself. The reinforcements were lead by a Galaxy class, which itself can handle multiple average Klingon ships, too. And the Klingons retreated anyway, which leads me to believe that even if 6 ships + DS9 seems like a small deal, it was still enough of a force to worry a fleet of ~40 ships (formerly 50, plus again a Starfleet ship can handle more than one BoPs). Sending in a small but strong fleet means dividing up the numbers, which leads to easy pickings for either DS9 or the relief.

That's just my analysis, though.

 

[T'Girl]

Now, I loved Kira's scene however - she really looked like a highly trained resistance solider when she got stabbed, pulled out the blade, took out the attacker, then let herself collapse.

You'd think that a highly trained resistance solider would know better, you never pull a knife out. If someone stabs you, you grab the knife, knock your attackers hand away and finish the fight with the knife in you the whole time. The knife acts like a plug, keeps your blood in.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I remember seeing in the original Trek where they would do those funny looking chops to certain areas that would supposedly knock a humanoid out.

Don't forget the flying kick! Why have the Feds stopped teaching that move?

But debating the finer points of Fed tactics is a lost cause. Those are the same people who thought it would be a great idea to have the crew for their chief battleship in the area double as the crew for their most important space station, and then let the same crew goof around playing baseball in the holosuite in the middle of an interstellar war.

 

[Nightdiamond]

You'd think that a highly trained resistance solider would know better, you never pull a knife out. If someone stabs you, you grab the knife, knock your attackers hand away and finish the fight with the knife in you the whole time. The knife acts like a plug, keeps your blood in.

Wow, I didn't know that-interesting. I thought it looked like a cool scene, but when you think about it, those Klingon knives are big, so it would make sense.

And the flying jump kicks, I remember those... lol Kirk did that a lot.

Did Ds9 have that type of firepower before the upgrades? Could it have taken out an entire Klingon fleet or Jem Hadar fleet?

 

[DonIago]

Before the upgrades the battle would have taken about 5 minutes and there wouldn't have been enough left of DS9 to merit boarding.

I think the only circumstance where removing a blade on your own is a good idea is, possibly, if it's poisoned or something and you're preventing more said poison or what-not from getting into your body, but I'm far from qualified to say for sure.

 

[Jono]

Did Ds9 have that type of firepower before the upgrades? Could it have taken out an entire Klingon fleet or Jem Hadar fleet?

At the start of season 3 Sisko and Kira seem to believe that the station would hold for 2 hours if the Dominion attacked and that was when Fed shields were useless. What they were basing that on I have no idea given all they had seen of the Dominion in a couple of Jem'Hadar and three attack ships.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Now, I loved Kira's scene however - she really looked like a highly trained resistance solider when she got stabbed, pulled out the blade, took out the attacker, then let herself collapse.

I liked this as well. A far cry from her fighting in "Invasive Proceedures" which was: I'm Kira, I must attack and defeat another female who is not a resistance fighter but a pleasure planet girl who is hot! I'll attack first, and hit her twice but she hardly feels it, and then she'll wallop me five times, knocking me out cold, and cleaning my clock in the process. I'll have bruised ribs four scenes later, when the girl will patronize me by asking if I'm ok.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Now, I loved Kira's scene however - she really looked like a highly trained resistance solider when she got stabbed, pulled out the blade, took out the attacker, then let herself collapse.

I liked this as well. A far cry from her fighting in "Invasive Proceedures" which was: I'm Kira, I must attack and defeat another female who is not a resistance fighter but a pleasure planet girl who is hot! I'll attack first, and hit her twice but she hardly feels it, and then she'll wallop me five times, knocking me out cold, and cleaning my clock in the process. I'll have bruised ribs four scenes later, when the girl will patronize me by asking if I'm ok.

The more I read about these examples, the more I want to go back and look at and study the episodes for some reason- just to see the examples....

 

[Myasishchev]

Starfleet hand to hand combat training stresses hitting nerve clusters and vulnerable joints. And Dax teaches Kira all those moves in that first season episode "How to Punch Your Man". One punch or double fisted hammer slam and even the burliest Klingon or Borg will go down....

...Okay I made that up.

It is television, hand to hand combat on television is one of the most science fiction things ever depicted.

In reality(IE US Army combatives training) we were taught that more than 90% percent of hand to hand fights will end with you grappling and rolling on the ground with your opponent and that strikes(punches, whatever) are far more likely to break your own hand than knockout an opponent.

But that is reality, and it makes for bad TV.

Indeed; also I've rarely seen any fiction acknowledge that just about any cranial trauma capable of rendering someone unconscious or ineffective is also potentially lethal. "It's okay, he just knocked him out with that blunt object" is, more realistically, "We should probably get him to a hospital, because his ruptured meningeal arteries are probably stripping his dura mater off and causing severe brain damage as we speak."

At the start of season 3 Sisko and Kira seem to believe that the station would hold for 2 hours if the Dominion attacked and that was when Fed shields were useless. What they were basing that on I have no idea given all they had seen of the Dominion in a couple of Jem'Hadar and three attack ships.

Maybe it was concealed by editing, or it just wasn't their goal, but I don't remember them holding that long in Season 5.