^ I completely agree.
On season 4 of Buffy...should I be watching Angel?
- Thread starter JirinPanthosa
- Start date
As far as I remember this is absolutely correct. Spike ends the Buffy series actually being a more noble character than Angel--Spike had a great send off that it was a shame that The Powers That Be decided he needed to join the cast of Angel.
Yeah, Spike should never have been in Angel.
I like that they didn't go in the romantic direction after Spike got his soul. To me it would have smacked of audience wish fulfillment and cast Buffy as Spike's prize for being a good guy. The kind of love Buffy did have for Spike made a better story. I hate it in TV when they don't require the man to physically attract the woman to 'acquire' her. Even after he became good, Spike is an emotional 'taker'. He still made Buffy invest a lot of effort into his emotional maintenance.
I have one ep left in Angel. I'm not a big fan of the last string of episodes overall though it had some great moments. Seems like they're more focused on teases and reversals than dramatic momentum. The whole WR&H story has never had internally consistent logic.
And the Immortal episode felt like it belonged much earlier in the season.
I like that they didn't go in the romantic direction after Spike got his soul. To me it would have smacked of audience wish fulfillment and cast Buffy as Spike's prize for being a good guy. The kind of love Buffy did have for Spike made a better story. I hate it in TV when they don't require the man to physically attract the woman to 'acquire' her. Even after he became good, Spike is an emotional 'taker'. He still made Buffy invest a lot of effort into his emotional maintenance.
I have one ep left in Angel. I'm not a big fan of the last string of episodes overall though it had some great moments. Seems like they're more focused on teases and reversals than dramatic momentum. The whole WR&H story has never had internally consistent logic.
And the Immortal episode felt like it belonged much earlier in the season.
So which do you prefer: Buffy or Angel?
OR it could have been characterized as the story of a man transforming himself into someone worthy of Buffy's love. Further, his eventually "winning" her could have been characterized as the most unlikely of twists (under the circumstances).
And just for the record, I have not been saying that I thought Spike's storyline in Buffy should have been changed. Actually, I was quite satisfied with it. My only point has been that the reasons we were given for Buffy's refusal to allow herself to have romantic love for Spike were not supported by what we saw on screen.
I could've been worse. Before Eliza Dushku signed up for 'Tru Calling' she was heavily in talks for a Faith spin-off, which at one point had Spike on it as some sort of Spike the Friendly Ghost!
^ Woah. I knew about the potential Faith spin-off but Spike included as a ghost?
Beyond stupid!
Beyond stupid!
I seem to remember there being talk of a Spike spin-off as well as Ripper.
It wouldn't have made sense for Spike to be on the Ripper spin-off though. It was about Giles' rebellious teenage years.
It wouldn't have made sense for Spike to be on the Ripper spin-off though. It was about Giles' rebellious teenage years.
No, it wasn't.
http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Ripper
It would've starred Anthony Head and involved Giles returning home after many years. I believe the reason Giles was written out of Buffy as a regular for a while is because they were planning to spin him off into his own UK-made show.
For Spike/Buffy to have really worked he would have needed a second ensouled season where he was less needy.
I like Buffy more overall but Angel may have better top episodes. Buffy had more direction but Angel had amazing moments.
Although I think my favorite ep is Zeppo.
When does Buffy S8 take place? Is it during Angel S5 and cover plot points referenced in Angel like the crazy slayer and The Immortal?
I like Buffy more overall but Angel may have better top episodes. Buffy had more direction but Angel had amazing moments.
Although I think my favorite ep is Zeppo.
When does Buffy S8 take place? Is it during Angel S5 and cover plot points referenced in Angel like the crazy slayer and The Immortal?
^
I'm fairly certain it was really because Hannigan new found stardom had put her in a much higher bracket and they couldn't afford to pay her salary and still pay ASH full-time.
I'm fairly certain it was really because Hannigan new found stardom had put her in a much higher bracket and they couldn't afford to pay her salary and still pay ASH full-time.
Sorry, my mistake about the Ripper spin-off. Although I'm pretty sure the reason he left Buffy for a while is because he wanted time off to spend with his family.
If I remember correctly, it starts a year and a half after the end of season 7. I'm not sure if there were references to the 'crazy slayer', but there is a follow-up to the episode with the Immortal.
Is it explained how Andrew became her most trusted general?
Seasons 8 takes place well over a year later to allow it to catch up to and overtake Angel season 5 and subsequently the entire Angel: After the Fall (season 6) comics.
And a lot of things are answered over the course of seasons 8, 9 and 10. Then butchered beyond all recognition as the continuity of the entire series hacked away "officially".
Just consider the TV shows canon and leave it at that.
And a lot of things are answered over the course of seasons 8, 9 and 10. Then butchered beyond all recognition as the continuity of the entire series hacked away "officially".
Just consider the TV shows canon and leave it at that.
Haha, love the 'FU' ending, Berserk/Twin Peaks style. I wonder how season 5 would have gone if it had been renewed. Love that Lindsay got what he deserved. Never forgave him for Darla.
Although I don't get that 'Signing his way out of the Sanshuu Prophecy' thing. The way they handle prophecies in this show is just kind of bizarre. Like, it's not somebody who had knowledge of the future and wrote down what he saw. Destiny is some kind of magic cloak you can equip and de-equip that determines your future. And after he signed away his destiny, shouldn't he have just made his way back to the casino or something? Given the show's internal logic and all. 
And accepting that he can sign his way out of the prophecy, wouldn't that just prove the prophecy referred to Spike and fix the hole in destiny? Yes, I just seriously typed the phrase 'The hole in destiny'.
Dramatically the last episode was awesome, but so much of it made absolutely no sense and just flat out ignored other established things.
And accepting that he can sign his way out of the prophecy, wouldn't that just prove the prophecy referred to Spike and fix the hole in destiny? Yes, I just seriously typed the phrase 'The hole in destiny'.
Dramatically the last episode was awesome, but so much of it made absolutely no sense and just flat out ignored other established things.
The whole point of Angel is that the good guys can never win. Evil is always among us. It is a fact of our existence. But as long as there are people that are willing to fight, Evil will never be victorious.
I think the prophecy was a carrot that they dangled in front of Angel, but I don't think he was ever meant to get it. And by the time Season 5 roles around, Angel understands that. There's no number of good deeds that he can do to erase the horrible things he did when he was Angelus. Nobody really finds true redemption. All you can do is keep fighting and hope that you make a difference.
So it doesn't matter who the prophecy refers to. It doesn't matter if it's Angel or Spike. Neither of them are getting a reward.
The first time I saw the finale, the ending was so frustrating. But now I think it fits perfectly with the theme of the show. The fight never ends.
I think the prophecy was a carrot that they dangled in front of Angel, but I don't think he was ever meant to get it. And by the time Season 5 roles around, Angel understands that. There's no number of good deeds that he can do to erase the horrible things he did when he was Angelus. Nobody really finds true redemption. All you can do is keep fighting and hope that you make a difference.
So it doesn't matter who the prophecy refers to. It doesn't matter if it's Angel or Spike. Neither of them are getting a reward.
The first time I saw the finale, the ending was so frustrating. But now I think it fits perfectly with the theme of the show. The fight never ends.
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