Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1st

[Davros]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

From a cynical point of view the reasoning could be "If I am better off under X tax regime, then it's a fairer tax."

Good job I'm not a cynic.

The problem with life being unfair, is chiefly that it's unfair in favor of the wrong people.

As opposed to being unfair in favor of the right people? Who's that? You?

Of course me. That is core to the philosophy of Davroscentrism.

 

[Yanks]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

First shot at the multi-quote function...

All Yanks or any other right-winger has to do is Google or Wiki the Department of Energy. It's not a colossal blow-by-blow description the length of a Tolstoy novel, but the Wiki page on the DOE gives a pretty detailed and very good rundown of what the department does and the responsibilities and power it wields as a part of the executive branch of the federal government.

Most conservatives and libertarians who decry and despise these government departments don't give details of why they want them abolished, only that it's "more bloated Big Government bureaucracy," "it's not in the Constitution" and so forth and so on. It all boils down to government = bad thing and not in the Constitution = even worse thing. Little more than that. It's just partisan bumper sticker slogan politics for people who live on sound bites.

It all boils down to "get rid of all government, except the parts we like."

It all boils down to shifting power away from the FEDERAL government when and where ever possible.

Always. Government is the enemy of the people!*

*Except for those parts that aren't and help me become wealthy and powerful and expand my personal influence while in office.

Politically true sadly, but not the gist of my argument. I have no financial stake in any of this.

Always. Government is the enemy of the people!*

*Except for those parts that aren't and help me become wealthy and powerful and expand my personal influence while in office.

As I posted above, the furlough is a good example of this and why the House keeps trying to push for partial reinstatements of certain aspects of the Federal Government they, apparently, didn't realize would go away when, you know, it stopped getting funded.

No different than the Obama implemented sequestration. All of a sudden they found money to drastically reduce the number of days from 22 to 6.

It is amazing people call for the end of government departments they know absolutely nothing about.

Fox News and Conservative radio have to be the two worst things to ever happen to this country. Not because they offer differing viewpoints but because they don't actually take the time to educate their viewers/listeners on what impact various actions will have. It is pretty depressing.

So not true.

Are you saying that all the others take the time to "educate their listeners"?

I'm pretty sure that isn't true either.

 

[Yanks]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Institute the Fair Tax and eliminate the IRS.

The fair tax is anything but fair. It places a far greater burden on the poor as they have to spend a higher percentage if not all of their income on basic survival.

How is that not "fair"?

It is different from the free ride half the country gets now.

The rich would shoulder the VAST majority of the tax revenue. Because they spend more. It would even be close.

It's "fair" because it doesn't, aside from very few exemptions, let anyone off the hook for pulling their weight.

 

[MacLeod]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Of course there is nothing wrong with local Government or more decisions being taken at the local level.

But hate to sound cynical again. But would people be arguing for more Goverenment at the local level, when the national Government is more intune with their own political ideology? Conversely when the reverse is true and the national governement is more intune with political ideology than the local government do they call for more national government?

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

First shot at the multi-quote function... ...

:snip:

And... you failed.

Next learn about editing posts and copy/paste.

 

[Amaris]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

After all, what's mine is mine, and what's yours is yours and mine,

I sat there and watched it, playing the entire theme in my head.

I miss that show.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Institute the Fair Tax and eliminate the IRS.

The fair tax is anything but fair. It places a far greater burden on the poor as they have to spend a higher percentage if not all of their income on basic survival.

How is that not "fair"?

It is different from the free ride half the country gets now.

The rich would shoulder the VAST majority of the tax revenue. Because they spend more. It would even be close.

It's "fair" because it doesn't, aside from very few exemptions, let anyone off the hook for pulling their weight.

Actually the rich pay more in taxes because they can afford to pay those taxes, even then they pay less now than they did in the past. It was much higher in the 50s and up till the 80s when Reagan decided that rich people needed more money in the delusion that it would benefit everyone. It didn't, but that doesn't stop idiots from believing it.

While other income levels do pay less in taxes, they do pay taxes due to the sales tax.

So claiming that half the country doesn't pay taxes, at least you didn't claim it was 47%, is cute. But repeating a lie doesn't make it true. It just makes everyone tired of hearing it.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

First shot at the multi-quote function... ...

:snip:

And... you failed.

Next learn about editing posts and copy/paste.

Dude, at least he made the effort. No need to browbeat him for it, just give him advice.

 

[MacLeod]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Institute the Fair Tax and eliminate the IRS.

The fair tax is anything but fair. It places a far greater burden on the poor as they have to spend a higher percentage if not all of their income on basic survival.

How is that not "fair"?

It is different from the free ride half the country gets now.

The rich would shoulder the VAST majority of the tax revenue. Because they spend more. It would even be close.

It's "fair" because it doesn't, aside from very few exemptions, let anyone off the hook for pulling their weight.

I think the point that was trying to be made was that the less well off would pay substantial more in tax percentage wise compared against their income.

We aren't talking about luxury items, but everday necesities like food, rent etc.. After all whter you earn US$20 000 or US$200 000 you still need to eat, pay rent etc...

 

[Awesome Possum]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

The fair tax is anything but fair. It places a far greater burden on the poor as they have to spend a higher percentage if not all of their income on basic survival.

How is that not "fair"?

It is different from the free ride half the country gets now.

The rich would shoulder the VAST majority of the tax revenue. Because they spend more. It would even be close.

It's "fair" because it doesn't, aside from very few exemptions, let anyone off the hook for pulling their weight.

I think the point that was trying to be made was that the less well off would pay substantial more in tax percentage wise compared against their income.

We aren't talking about luxury items, but everday necesities like food, rent etc.. After all whter you earn US$20 000 or US$200 000 you still need to eat, pay rent etc...

That's reality, which has nothing to do with this. For reasons unknown, a lot of people feel that millionaires deserve more money. So if lesser people have to struggle to survive, which some already do, they are fine with this. As long as millionaires get more money.

All because they thinks that one day they'll be a millionaire too and they doesn't want to pay taxes. It's completely delusional, but the GOP is happy to keep these suckers, I mean future millionaires tagging along.

 

[Yanks]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

First shot at the multi-quote function... ...

:snip:

And... you failed.

Next learn about editing posts and copy/paste.

What?

 

[Davros]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Institute the Fair Tax and eliminate the IRS.

The fair tax is anything but fair. It places a far greater burden on the poor as they have to spend a higher percentage if not all of their income on basic survival.

How is that not "fair"?

Because the poor would no longer have the money they need for survival while the rich who have more than they need to survive would get a tax cut they don't need.

It is different from the free ride half the country gets now.

There is no free ride for half the country. You should quit listening to Mitt Romney's lies.

The rich would shoulder the VAST majority of the tax revenue. Because they spend more. It would even be close.

Since they spend a far smaller percentage of their income their tax rate would wind up being far lower than that of the poor who spend everything they have just to survive.

It's "fair" because it doesn't, aside from very few exemptions, let anyone off the hook for pulling their weight.

Nobody is being let off the hook. Lower incomes still pay taxes. Often a higher rate than the rich since capital gains and carried interest are taxed at such low rates and that Social Security taxes are capped at $113,700.

 

[Yanks]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

The fair tax is anything but fair. It places a far greater burden on the poor as they have to spend a higher percentage if not all of their income on basic survival.

How is that not "fair"?

It is different from the free ride half the country gets now.

The rich would shoulder the VAST majority of the tax revenue. Because they spend more. It would even be close.

It's "fair" because it doesn't, aside from very few exemptions, let anyone off the hook for pulling their weight.

I think the point that was trying to be made was that the less well off would pay substantial more in tax percentage wise compared against their income.

We aren't talking about luxury items, but everday necesities like food, rent etc.. After all whter you earn US$20 000 or US$200 000 you still need to eat, pay rent etc...

Exempting items by category is neither fair nor simple. Respected economists have shown that the wealthy spend much more on unprepared food, clothing, housing, and medical care than do the poor. Exempting these goods, as many state sales taxes do, actually gives the wealthy a disproportionate benefit. Also, today these purchases are not exempted from federal taxation. The purchase of food, clothing, and medical services is made from after-income-tax and after-payroll-tax dollars, while their purchase price hides the cost of corporate taxes and private sector compliance costs.

Finally, exempting one product or service, but not another, opens the door to the army of lobbyists and special interest groups that plague and distort our taxation system today. Those who have the money will send lobbyists to Washington to obtain special tax breaks in their own self-interest. This process causes unfair and inefficient distortions in our economy and must be stopped

That's reality, which has nothing to do with this. For reasons unknown, a lot of people feel that millionaires deserve more money. So if lesser people have to struggle to survive, which some already do, they are fine with this. As long as millionaires get more money.

All because they thinks that one day they'll be a millionaire too and they doesn't want to pay taxes. It's completely delusional, but the GOP is happy to keep these suckers, I mean future millionaires tagging along.

It has nothing to do with this. No one "deserves" anything.

I'm getting the vib that you believe it's your right to take from someone else, stuff they've earned.

That's the best part about the fair tax, those "evil rich" folks can't hide in loop holes they create in Congress.

It drastically takes power away from politicians.

One less thing they will have to worry about trying to get reelected.

Wouldn't that be a welcome change?

 

[cooleddie74]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

"Free ride for half the country."



People who don't earn enough income to pay federal income taxes on it still pay proportionately bigger slices of that income on local and state taxes such as sales, food, hot/prepared food and other such taxes levied by localities to generate revenue to operate. They have to pay proportionately bigger slices of their income to pay their bills, buy food, educate their kids and maintain personal transportation if they own one or more vehicles. That means auto insurance. Auto repair costs. School supplies. Other child expenses. Etc. So forth and so on.

All from a much smaller pie. Your concept of "free ride" is about as much of a free ride as asking the Russians for a spot on the next manned launch from the Baikonur Cosmodrome.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

How is that not "fair"?

It is different from the free ride half the country gets now.

The rich would shoulder the VAST majority of the tax revenue. Because they spend more. It would even be close.

It's "fair" because it doesn't, aside from very few exemptions, let anyone off the hook for pulling their weight.

I think the point that was trying to be made was that the less well off would pay substantial more in tax percentage wise compared against their income.

We aren't talking about luxury items, but everday necesities like food, rent etc.. After all whter you earn US$20 000 or US$200 000 you still need to eat, pay rent etc...

Exempting items by category is neither fair nor simple. Respected economists have shown that the wealthy spend much more on unprepared food, clothing, housing, and medical care than do the poor. Exempting these goods, as many state sales taxes do, actually gives the wealthy a disproportionate benefit. Also, today these purchases are not exempted from federal taxation. The purchase of food, clothing, and medical services is made from after-income-tax and after-payroll-tax dollars, while their purchase price hides the cost of corporate taxes and private sector compliance costs.

Finally, exempting one product or service, but not another, opens the door to the army of lobbyists and special interest groups that plague and distort our taxation system today. Those who have the money will send lobbyists to Washington to obtain special tax breaks in their own self-interest. This process causes unfair and inefficient distortions in our economy and must be stopped

That's reality, which has nothing to do with this. For reasons unknown, a lot of people feel that millionaires deserve more money. So if lesser people have to struggle to survive, which some already do, they are fine with this. As long as millionaires get more money.

All because they thinks that one day they'll be a millionaire too and they doesn't want to pay taxes. It's completely delusional, but the GOP is happy to keep these suckers, I mean future millionaires tagging along.

It has nothing to do with this. No one "deserves" anything.

I'm getting the vib that you believe it's your right to take from someone else, stuff they've earned.

That's the best part about the fair tax, those "evil rich" folks can't hide in loop holes they create in Congress.

It drastically takes power away from politicians.

One less thing they will have to worry about trying to get reelected.

Wouldn't that be a welcome change?

It will never work because having say 20% of your income taken away will not harm someone who is rich, if anything it benefits them. It will harm people who are barely surviving now. They simply cannot afford to pay 20%. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp, anyone with common sense can see it. It has nothing to do with "evil politicians" and everything to do with math. Bill Gates can give away millions and not sweat it. Bill Johnson down the street can barely afford to give away $20. That's how the world is. There are people who have to decide between paying the rent and paying for medical bills because they can't afford both. Claiming it to be otherwise or that it isn't fair that they don't pay more is delusional thinking. The half that you claim are getting a "free ride" get fucked over. It stuns me that some want it to be worse for them.

How about instead of creating a "fair tax" which is anything but fair. We just close the loopholes and make the rich pay what they are supposed to pay. Everyone wins. Useless government ideas go away, politicians can no longer exploit them and needed tax dollars go to benefit the entire nation.

 

[Yanks]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

I think the point that was trying to be made was that the less well off would pay substantial more in tax percentage wise compared against their income.

We aren't talking about luxury items, but everday necesities like food, rent etc.. After all whter you earn US$20 000 or US$200 000 you still need to eat, pay rent etc...

Exempting items by category is neither fair nor simple. Respected economists have shown that the wealthy spend much more on unprepared food, clothing, housing, and medical care than do the poor. Exempting these goods, as many state sales taxes do, actually gives the wealthy a disproportionate benefit. Also, today these purchases are not exempted from federal taxation. The purchase of food, clothing, and medical services is made from after-income-tax and after-payroll-tax dollars, while their purchase price hides the cost of corporate taxes and private sector compliance costs.

Finally, exempting one product or service, but not another, opens the door to the army of lobbyists and special interest groups that plague and distort our taxation system today. Those who have the money will send lobbyists to Washington to obtain special tax breaks in their own self-interest. This process causes unfair and inefficient distortions in our economy and must be stopped

That's reality, which has nothing to do with this. For reasons unknown, a lot of people feel that millionaires deserve more money. So if lesser people have to struggle to survive, which some already do, they are fine with this. As long as millionaires get more money.

All because they thinks that one day they'll be a millionaire too and they doesn't want to pay taxes. It's completely delusional, but the GOP is happy to keep these suckers, I mean future millionaires tagging along.

It has nothing to do with this. No one "deserves" anything.

I'm getting the vib that you believe it's your right to take from someone else, stuff they've earned.

That's the best part about the fair tax, those "evil rich" folks can't hide in loop holes they create in Congress.

It drastically takes power away from politicians.

One less thing they will have to worry about trying to get reelected.

Wouldn't that be a welcome change?

It will never work because having say 20% of your income taken away will not harm someone who is rich, if anything it benefits them. It will harm people who are barely surviving now. They simply cannot afford to pay 20%. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp, anyone with common sense can see it. It has nothing to do with "evil politicians" and everything to do with math. Bill Gates can give away millions and not sweat it. Bill Johnson down the street can barely afford to give away $20. That's how the world is. There are people who have to decide between paying the rent and paying for medical bills because they can't afford both. Claiming it to be otherwise or that it isn't fair that they don't pay more is delusional thinking. The half that you claim are getting a "free ride" get fucked over. It stuns me that some want it to be worse for them.

How about instead of creating a "fair tax" which is anything but fair. We just close the loopholes and make the rich pay what they are supposed to pay. Everyone wins. Useless government ideas go away, politicians can no longer exploit them and needed tax dollars go to benefit the entire nation.

They are getting "fucked over" by the very progressive system you support.

I submit a change is needed.

The fair tax closes all the "loop-holes" you complain about and institutes a system void of them as we know them now.

You obviously have read how the fair tax works and what is replaces.

You and Davros need to understand what a prebate is.

Here are some basic questions and answers.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers

 

[Awesome Possum]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Exempting items by category is neither fair nor simple. Respected economists have shown that the wealthy spend much more on unprepared food, clothing, housing, and medical care than do the poor. Exempting these goods, as many state sales taxes do, actually gives the wealthy a disproportionate benefit. Also, today these purchases are not exempted from federal taxation. The purchase of food, clothing, and medical services is made from after-income-tax and after-payroll-tax dollars, while their purchase price hides the cost of corporate taxes and private sector compliance costs.

Finally, exempting one product or service, but not another, opens the door to the army of lobbyists and special interest groups that plague and distort our taxation system today. Those who have the money will send lobbyists to Washington to obtain special tax breaks in their own self-interest. This process causes unfair and inefficient distortions in our economy and must be stopped



It has nothing to do with this. No one "deserves" anything.

I'm getting the vib that you believe it's your right to take from someone else, stuff they've earned.

That's the best part about the fair tax, those "evil rich" folks can't hide in loop holes they create in Congress.

It drastically takes power away from politicians.

One less thing they will have to worry about trying to get reelected.

Wouldn't that be a welcome change?

It will never work because having say 20% of your income taken away will not harm someone who is rich, if anything it benefits them. It will harm people who are barely surviving now. They simply cannot afford to pay 20%. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp, anyone with common sense can see it. It has nothing to do with "evil politicians" and everything to do with math. Bill Gates can give away millions and not sweat it. Bill Johnson down the street can barely afford to give away $20. That's how the world is. There are people who have to decide between paying the rent and paying for medical bills because they can't afford both. Claiming it to be otherwise or that it isn't fair that they don't pay more is delusional thinking. The half that you claim are getting a "free ride" get fucked over. It stuns me that some want it to be worse for them.

How about instead of creating a "fair tax" which is anything but fair. We just close the loopholes and make the rich pay what they are supposed to pay. Everyone wins. Useless government ideas go away, politicians can no longer exploit them and needed tax dollars go to benefit the entire nation.

They are getting "fucked over" by the very progressive system you support.

I submit a change is needed.

The fair tax closes all the "loop-holes" you complain about and institutes a system void of them as we know them now.

You obviously have read how the fair tax works and what is replaces.

You and Davros need to understand what a prebate is.

Here are some basic questions and answers.

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers

I never said the current system was good, just that the "fair tax" is worse.

 

[Davros]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

You and Davros need to understand what a prebate is.

I know full well what one is and that it just leads back to people like you saying the poor are not paying their fair share and taking money away from taxpayers.

What you need to understand is that we are paying historically low rates of taxes as it is. Nobody in America pays high taxes. And that is why we have the deficits we do.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

Isn't funny how Conservatives are so obsessed with how great the 50s were, yet ignore how high taxes were back then.

Really anyone who thinks taxes are too high now has a severe level of ignorance about tax rates.

 

[Yanks]

Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

I never said the current system was good, just that the "fair tax" is worse.

I don't agree.

I know full well what one is and that it just leads back to people like you saying the poor are not paying their fair share and taking money away from taxpayers.

What you need to understand is that we are paying historically low rates of taxes as it is. Nobody in America pays high taxes. And that is why we have the deficits we do.

Spending too much has nothing to do with it...