Oh, No, another Slap on the Wrist from Janeway.

[Newski]

It seems to me that every time somebody acted out of control, obeyed a direct order, or overall just acted like a Jerk, Janeway would pretty much much tell them she's really disappointed and not take any further action. Can somebody help me with examples of this?

Or am I just remembering things the wrong way? I mean, I know she busted Paris down to Ensign (for like a week....) but that's besides the point.

 

[Welshie]

It seems to me that every time somebody acted out of control, obeyed a direct order, or overall just acted like a Jerk, Janeway would pretty much much tell them she's really disappointed and not take any further action. Can somebody help me with examples of this?

Or am I just remembering things the wrong way? I mean, I know she busted Paris down to Ensign (for like a week....) but that's besides the point.

Well, there was the time that she had the first Ensign Kim blown out the airlock for insubordination, but he doesn't really count... I mean, they found a clone 2 episodes later.

 

[AuntKate]

Janeway was incredibly forgiving most of the time, which flies in the face of the opinion that it was always "Janeway or the highway." However, she was tough on Ransom and the Equinox crew, put Paris in the Brig for 30 days, and curtailed Seven's privileges at least once.

When a ship is stranded like Voyager was, I think the captain would have to be pretty flexible with the crew. After all, they are the only people she has to rely on, and they are all suffering from the separation from home and the fear of attack on a daily basis. Janeway has to look at the long term in dealing with issues with the crew. She needs them.

 

[Tachyon]

Nice try trying to throw shade at Janeway, but unfortunately it ain't working.

 

[kimc]

Well, there was the time that she had the first Ensign Kim blown out the airlock for insubordination, but he doesn't really count... I mean, they found a clone 2 episodes later.

No, he fell out by accident when he couldn't keep hold of B'Elanna's hand. The Harry Kim and Naomi Wildman from the duplicate Voyager ended up changing ships.

 

[freak]

Well, there was the time that she had the first Ensign Kim blown out the airlock for insubordination, but he doesn't really count... I mean, they found a clone 2 episodes later.

No, he fell out by accident when he couldn't keep hold of B'Elanna's hand. The Harry Kim and Naomi Wildman from the duplicate Voyager ended up changing ships.

Huh!? Now you've lost me there. Changing ships??? Oh..the duplicate Voyager..DUH! Answered my own question.

 

[belle paris]

No offense to Janeway (I think it's mostly the writers at fault) but I really didn't understand/like the bit in Alice where B'lanna complains that Tom was violent to her and Janeway dismisses her concerns.

JANEWAY: This isn't the first time you and Tom have had an argument about how he spends his free time.
TORRES: This wasn't a lovers' quarrel. Captain, he practically assaulted me. ......JANEWAY: All right, I'll have the Doctor take a look at him. In the meantime

Ummm, what? You would think spousal violence would be a serious matter. The writers failed in this respect.

 

[kimc]

Well, there was the time that she had the first Ensign Kim blown out the airlock for insubordination, but he doesn't really count... I mean, they found a clone 2 episodes later.

No, he fell out by accident when he couldn't keep hold of B'Elanna's hand. The Harry Kim and Naomi Wildman from the duplicate Voyager ended up changing ships.

Huh!? Now you've lost me there. Changing ships??? Oh..the duplicate Voyager..DUH! Answered my own question.

Are you okay? Need some coffee?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

No offense to Janeway (I think it's mostly the writers at fault) but I really didn't understand/like the bit in Alice where B'lanna complains that Tom was violent to her and Janeway dismisses her concerns.

JANEWAY: This isn't the first time you and Tom have had an argument about how he spends his free time.
TORRES: This wasn't a lovers' quarrel. Captain, he practically assaulted me. ......JANEWAY: All right, I'll have the Doctor take a look at him. In the meantime

Ummm, what? You would think spousal violence would be a serious matter. The writers failed in this respect.

Well, B'Elanna is part Klingon. If we look at, say, Worf and Dax, or indeed any Klingon relationship, physical violence is a part of the love. Anyway "practically assaulted me" isn't the same as saying "Captain, a fellow officer whom I am in a relationship with beat me".

 

[kes7]

It seems to me that every time somebody acted out of control, obeyed a direct order, or overall just acted like a Jerk, Janeway would pretty much much tell them she's really disappointed and not take any further action. Can somebody help me with examples of this?

Or am I just remembering things the wrong way? I mean, I know she busted Paris down to Ensign (for like a week....) but that's besides the point.

What that ship needed was a daddy. Janeway was pretty much the pushover mom. She was a complete hardass to all the aliens they encountered, but with her own children -- oops, I mean her own crew -- she lost objectivity. I'm all for female captains, but Janeway really came off as more of a Mom than a superior officer a lot of the time. Though, as a mom myself, I suppose it's kind of a subtle difference.

Anyway, I could see her going easy on them because they're stuck in the DQ and really, what could she do? Turn the ship into a giant brig? But she let people off way too easy for very serious stuff. Maybe she felt her hands were tied with Seven since she wasn't Starfleet? Seven was by far the worst offender, she just did whatever she wanted to do and never really got more than a talking-to. Human Error was the best example of this, but IIRC, the Omega particle thing was the same -- she disregarded orders and there were zero consequences for it. I could come up with more examples. Oh, and then there was Q2 -- oh, you poor thing, your daddy is too hard on you. Sure, go right ahead and disrupt the ship, steal the Delta Flyer, and kill the Borg kid we're babysitting. I won't stop you. Together, we'll teach your big mean daddy a lesson, won't we? Janeway honestly would have made a terrible mother if her "parenting" of the crew was any indication.

 

[kimc]

What that ship needed was a daddy.

Well they had Chakotay. Also, Tuvok was an "older" Vulcan with children who were practically grown so I could also see him as a father figure to the crew.

 

[teya]

What that ship needed was a daddy.

Well they had Chakotay.

Chakotay's position as ship's disciplinarian was effectively squashed by Janeway when she and Tuvok kept him in the dark on the Jonas investigation.

He was never able to do his job without her interference. A true micromanager was Kathryn.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I dunno, demoting Mr Paris and putting him in the brig was fairly harsh by Star Trek standards. I mean, Ben Sisko let people get away with all kinds of crazy stuff.

 

[kimc]

What that ship needed was a daddy.

Well they had Chakotay.

Chakotay's position as ship's disciplinarian was effectively squashed by Janeway when she and Tuvok kept him in the dark on the Jonas investigation.

He was never able to do his job without her interference. A true micromanager was Kathryn.

That was pretty much Tuvok's plan since they needed a convincing performance to flush Jonas out. Although that would have been an excellent opportunity to play more on the tension between Tuvok and Chakotay and their roles as advisors to the captain. Tuvok had been her friend and advisor for many years yet Chakotay was made first officer over him and was also becoming trusted by Janeway. The tension between them was often hinted at but it would have been cool to see more made of that.

Also, Chakotay didn't seem to have a problem with discipline before or after that epidose. Even after he punched out a crewman in the mess hall he was never called on it by Janeway.

 

[teya]

Well they had Chakotay.

Chakotay's position as ship's disciplinarian was effectively squashed by Janeway when she and Tuvok kept him in the dark on the Jonas investigation.

He was never able to do his job without her interference. A true micromanager was Kathryn.

That was pretty much Tuvok's plan since they needed a convincing performance to flush Jonas out. Although that would have been an excellent opportunity to play more on the tension between Tuvok and Chakotay and their roles as advisors to the captain. Tuvok had been her friend and advisor for many years yet Chakotay was made first officer over him and was also becoming trusted by Janeway. The tension between them was often hinted at but it would have been cool to see more made of that.

And it would have been cool to see some tension between Chakotay & Janeway, since as commanding officer, the buck stops with her.

Also, Chakotay didn't seem to have a problem with discipline before or after that epidose. Even after he punched out a crewman in the mess hall he was never called on it by Janeway.

That was before that episode. From that point on, Chakotay aquiesced to Janeway's wishes.

I know it's hard to say that Kathryn wasn't perfect in this forum. After all, she's the captain, she's the star, therefore whatever she does (or chooses not to do) is fine.

Frankly, that's what I mean by her "my way or the highway" attitude.

 

[kes7]

Also, Chakotay didn't seem to have a problem with discipline before or after that epidose. Even after he punched out a crewman in the mess hall he was never called on it by Janeway.

Why don't I remember this? Which episode was that?

 

[teya]

Also, Chakotay didn't seem to have a problem with discipline before or after that epidose. Even after he punched out a crewman in the mess hall he was never called on it by Janeway.

Why don't I remember this? Which episode was that?

"Learning Curve."

 

[kimc]

And it would have been cool to see some tension between Chakotay & Janeway, since as commanding officer, the buck stops with her.

There were plenty of scenes where they were in disagreement. However, as a newer poster (sorry, forgot the name) pointed out Chakotay had a tendency to be agreeable with commanding officers as shown in the way he got along with Annorax in "Year of Hell". Was it the Starfleet training? A part of his personality? Who can say but it would have been interesting to explore.

I know it's hard to say that Kathryn wasn't perfect in this forum. After all, she's the captain, she's the star, therefore whatever she does (or chooses not to do) is fine.

Knock it off.

 

[teya]

And it would have been cool to see some tension between Chakotay & Janeway, since as commanding officer, the buck stops with her.

There were plenty of scenes where they were in disagreement.

But only once ("Equinox") did she concede his point.

I know it's hard to say that Kathryn wasn't perfect in this forum. After all, she's the captain, she's the star, therefore whatever she does (or chooses not to do) is fine.

Knock it off.

In my opinion, Kathryn wasn't perfect.

She was domineering, manipulative and a micromanager.

That is my opinion.

I'm not going back on that simply because the moderator tells me to swallow an opinion. Sorry.

 

[AuntKate]

Janeway isn't perfect. In fact, it's her flaws that I find endearing.

She is too soft on her subordinates when they make mistakes. The biggest example of that has to be with the EMH after his betrayal of the ship and crew in "Flesh and Blood." She acquiesces quickly when the crew refuses to follow her orders to leave her behind in "Night." She does little more than chew out Tuvok after he bought the transporter device in "Prime Factors." She is just as easy on Chakotay in "Maneuvers" after he goes off on his own to deal with Seska.

She is also more than willing to do whatever is needed to help her crew. Look at what she lets B'Elanna do in "Barge of the Dead." She lets the EMH go back to Earth to help his "father" in "Lifeline," and then she lets him stay behind to find happiness in "Virtuoso" (and when he returns, she simply allows him to return). She doesn't do much to him when he alters his program with awful results in "Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy" and "Darkling." She forgives Kim in "Nightengale" when he fails to investigate the crew of the alien ship more carefully, and she lets him get away with insubordination (basically) in "The Disease."

Really, there are only a few times when Janeway refuses to listen to advice. The biggest is, of course, "Equinox." Another is "The Void," when she refuses to let go of Federation ideals. She is more than willing to follow the advice of her subordinates in "The Alliance" with almost disastrous results. Ultimately, she is required to listen to advice, but not to follow it. She is the captain, after all.

To me, Janeway is more often too soft than too inflexible, and I find her human qualities very admirable. She is wonderful to her godson when he thinks he's stuck on the ship in "Q2" and touching in her relationships with Kes at all times. Her compassion to the Q who wants to commit suicide in "Death Wish" is especially insightful. I love the way she is so understanding with Tuvok's limitations in "Riddles," and her farewell to him in "The Year of Hell" is a real tear-jerker. She even softens, in that episode, when she finds the watch that she ordered Chakotay to recycle; the way she wears the watch from that day forward and the way she gazes at the first officer's chair as she faces her "last battle" is indicative of how much she cares for and misses him.

I think people tend to oversimplify Janeway, to her disservice. She is a maverick, an idealist, and, underneath all the bluster, a softie. Seven is lucky that she is the captain who adopted her. Chakotay would have spaced her without a second thought!