Oh...JUST JUMP!!!

[RobertScorpio]

Using a WMD on what were mostly innocent civilians does not "take balls", dude...

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few. But, hey, I am sure there is a "WE ARE THE WORLD" chorus looking for some new singers. I'll break out my tie-dye stuff and make you a shirt..I'll even put Bob Marley or John Denver on it..for free!!! wink wink..

Rob

 

[Anwar]

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

I did find it funny that such a quote is often used when Kirk himself tossed it out for a "The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many" in the next flick.

But even if we are using the former, you're right. The needs of the hundreds of thousands of people for a home outweighed Sisko's need for vengeance on one man.

 

[RobertScorpio]

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

I did find it funny that such a quote is often used when Kirk himself tossed it out for a "The needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many" in the next flick.

But even if we are using the former, you're right. The needs of the hundreds of thousands of people for a home outweighed Sisko's need for vengeance on one man.

I guess Cardassian life doesn't mean that much to you. I thought we had grown beyond ranking who we'd rather save. I expect too much sometimes I guess. Oh well...

Rob

 

[Anwar]

The way you say it, you make it sound like Sisko was the one killing Cardassians. But just because Eddington decided to use bio-weaponry on Cardassian worlds doesn't give Sisko the OK to do it to Maquis planets in turn. If they'd just mentioned something about how Starfleet was at least considering reprimanding him for that, it would make it a little more tolerable.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

If Sisko had been attacking a military target, I would've said something different. I am FAR from a peacenik, pinko, or whatever else you might think to call me. That's why your North Korea comparison is a false one: there are definitely some military targets needing to be destroyed and I will support you all day on that.

But...what Sisko DID was not that. It was an act of terrorism against civilians--hell, an entire world--using a weapon of mass destruction. THAT should've been a court-martial offense. And Scorpio--I sure hope you wouldn't support using a WMD on a non-military target, because that is UNACCEPTABLE. Yes, Hiroshima and Nagasaki happened...but now that we've SEEN what that's like, WE WILL NOT DO IT AGAIN!

What this may demonstrate is that for all its principles, Starfleet is more interested in covering its ass than BEING the little kumbayah organization they claim to be.

 

[Captrek]

Even when they don’t jump, it might occasionally be a good idea to fake a jump.

Imagine if, in the opening credits of BOBW2, instead of listing Stewart, Frakes, then everybody else, they listed Frakes, Dennehy, then everybody else, and gave Stewart a “Special Appearance by” credit.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Yeah, there are several shows I watch where the return of a character was ruined by his name appearing in the opening credits at the beginning of the season (when he was supposed to be dead).

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Using a WMD on what were mostly innocent civilians does not "take balls", dude...

Innocence is overated. It is a quality we should ignore. Whether one is "innocent" or not, whether one is a soldier or a civilian- these are the result of social conditioning and societal influence affecting different people (different groups of people) in distinct ways. To suggest a certain person or type of person is a "legitimate target" and another isn't simply due to how they have been arranged and conditioned by their society is to make yourself an accessory to these harmful practices. Inflicting violence on anyone is a highly questionable action. I personally make no distinction between military and civilian, and have never been offered a sensible or convincing argument (from either a moral or logical stance) for why there should be. To me, all life is equally precious, and dismissing the life of a young man conditioned into being a soldier as less important than that of the lucky people not placed on that path is to me an unacceptable attitude. Look at it this way- if I were alive and my current age during the World War periods- First or Second-I would either have been forced into military servitude or conditioned from birth by my society into accepting it as my duty or role in life. To suggest I am a legitimate target in this situation would simply be to reinforce the ill-treatment I received, wouldn't it? As it happens, I am lucky in that my society has progressed beyond such attitudes towards its young males. Many societies haven't. Taking any life or inflecting any violence is a problem, regardless of the situation that societal factors and pressures have placed each person in. That's my view, anyway

PS: As ever, I apologise if I came across too forcefully here.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

The way you say it, you make it sound like Sisko was the one killing Cardassians. But just because Eddington decided to use bio-weaponry on Cardassian worlds doesn't give Sisko the OK to do it to Maquis planets in turn. If they'd just mentioned something about how Starfleet was at least considering reprimanding him for that, it would make it a little more tolerable.

Agreed. The problem is not so much that Sisko did it, but that we didn't see any consequences. It would have been nice if he had been demoted to Commander again, and regained Captain rank- and favour- during the Dominion War. It was bold to have him cross the line but not presenting any negative consequences undermined it, and undermined perceptions of Starfleet- as Nerys Ghemor pointed out a few posts up- to some degree.

 

[Captrek]

Even when they don’t jump, it might occasionally be a good idea to fake a jump.

Imagine if, in the opening credits of BOBW2, instead of listing Stewart, Frakes, then everybody else, they listed Frakes, Dennehy, then everybody else, and gave Stewart a “Special Appearance by” credit.

Getting off topic, but what are other occasions when they could have gotten creative with the credits? Off the top of my head, IaMD is the only time they did.

I think the end credits of Inner Light should have used flute music instead of the regular theme music.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

DN--It gets complicated if you're talking about conscription...though personally I believe that in very, VERY extreme circumstances it's necessary. But these days, especially with modern tech, I think we'd be talking World War III bad before that necessity ever came about. And if it got that bad, I would be volunteering, even though as a woman I am not required to put myself on the draft list.

(The draft list itself is an interesting question. We haven't used the draft in YEARS and I don't think it would happen except in extreme emergency, but I do find myself thinking that perhaps women should be required to register as well, like is done in Israel.)

For me, there is a difference between being the aggressor and being the defender. If you are the aggressor, then I definitely see your argument. If you are the defender...I believe STRONGLY that there is a moral duty of defense, and that here, it's failure to act on behalf of others if you are capable of it that is the biggest problem. If you just let the aggressors act unchecked, then two things are happening. Others die in your place, and those who cannot defend themselves may die because of your inaction, and those lives are then on you if you had the ability to act and did not.

I recognize that a pacifist, for instance, will believe it is better for ALL--the potential soldier, and those he/she would have defended, to die than for one man to take up arms. But to me...I simply cannot adhere to that position and believe that I am living up to all of my moral duties and obligations.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

DN--It gets complicated if you're talking about conscription...though personally I believe that in very, VERY extreme circumstances it's necessary. But these days, especially with modern tech, I think we'd be talking World War III bad before that necessity ever came about. And if it got that bad, I would be volunteering, even though as a woman I am not required to put myself on the draft list.

(The draft list itself is an interesting question. We haven't used the draft in YEARS and I don't think it would happen except in extreme emergency, but I do find myself thinking that perhaps women should be required to register as well, like is done in Israel.)

For me, there is a difference between being the aggressor and being the defender. If you are the aggressor, then I definitely see your argument. If you are the defender...I believe STRONGLY that there is a moral duty of defense, and that here, it's failure to act on behalf of others if you are capable of it that is the biggest problem. If you just let the aggressors act unchecked, then two things are happening. Others die in your place, and those who cannot defend themselves may die because of your inaction, and those lives are then on you if you had the ability to act and did not.

I recognize that a pacifist, for instance, will believe it is better for ALL--the potential soldier, and those he/she would have defended, to die than for one man to take up arms. But to me...I simply cannot adhere to that position and believe that I am living up to all of my moral duties and obligations.

As ever, you state your case really well, NG.

 

[Captrek]

Even when they don’t jump, it might occasionally be a good idea to fake a jump.

Imagine if, in the opening credits of BOBW2, instead of listing Stewart, Frakes, then everybody else, they listed Frakes, Dennehy, then everybody else, and gave Stewart a “Special Appearance by” credit.

Getting off topic, but what are other occasions when they could have gotten creative with the credits? Off the top of my head, IaMD is the only time they did.

I think the end credits of Inner Light should have used flute music instead of the regular theme music.

Here’s another one. WOTW should have used the S3 credits and listed Michael Dorn as a special guest star. Then it would be a nice surprise when he joins the DS9 senior staff at the end of the episode. Worf’s wrestling with decisions about his future is a lot less interesting when you’ve been told at the beginning of the episode exactly where he’s going to end up.