The entire Voyager series. Don't get me wrong, the show was very entertaining and certainly had enough Star Trekesqueness to sustain me, but come on...one sole ship surviving 75k light year journey back to the Alpha Quadrant? Against the Borg, against the Devore, the Swarm, ect. I just think that the odds were completely against them to the point of being completely impossible to make it back home
Oh...JUST JUMP!!!
- Thread starter RobertScorpio
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I think this is why DS9 in my book, is the best series. DS9 never sugar coated anything. When they introduced a plot development, they made sure it stuck. When Odo became sick, they didnt wrap it up in one little episode, they made sure it was explained over several episodes. Sisko died, Jadzia died, and those that didn't die, moved on to other positions
I think the lamest deus ex machina in the history of dei ex machinis is Spock’s inner eyelids at the end of Operation — Annihilate!
“You know how I told you I was permanently blinded? Well, you see, when Vulcans are exposed to extremely bright light, they are blinded temporarily. But with everything that was going on, I completely forgot I was a Vulcan, and just assumed I was permanently blinded because... well, a lot of other species can be blinded either temporarily or permanently by bright light. So I must have just assumed I was one of those species and also that the light had been enough to permanently blind whatever species I thought I was.”
I’m not saying Spock should have remained blind for the remaining two seasons and the film series (thought it might have been interesting), but as long as we’re complaining about reset buttons, this one has got to be the worst because of the sheer stupidity of the writing.
“You know how I told you I was permanently blinded? Well, you see, when Vulcans are exposed to extremely bright light, they are blinded temporarily. But with everything that was going on, I completely forgot I was a Vulcan, and just assumed I was permanently blinded because... well, a lot of other species can be blinded either temporarily or permanently by bright light. So I must have just assumed I was one of those species and also that the light had been enough to permanently blind whatever species I thought I was.”
I’m not saying Spock should have remained blind for the remaining two seasons and the film series (thought it might have been interesting), but as long as we’re complaining about reset buttons, this one has got to be the worst because of the sheer stupidity of the writing.
I have to sound like a lemming, but I'll agree with the Voyager/Maquis thing.
Also, I will see this more as a missed opportunity, but in Voyager, they could have made a lot more with the Equinox crew who stayed on board. That would have been a lot more interesting than the Borg children nonsense.
Also, I will see this more as a missed opportunity, but in Voyager, they could have made a lot more with the Equinox crew who stayed on board. That would have been a lot more interesting than the Borg children nonsense.
Let's not get carried away here dumping everything on Voyager.
DS9: "Necessary Evil" ends with a big dramatic fallout in which Odo tells Kira he doesn't know whether he can trust her anymore. Any lasting repercussions from this? Nope.
In DS9: "Hard Time", poor O'Brien spends decades in prison (simulated, but real to him). Any lasting repercussions from this? Nope (one passing reference in one subsequent episode, if I remember right).
In DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight" Sisko becomes an accessory to murder and delivers a wrenching monologue wondering whether he can live with himself. Is this hugely famous, series-defining moment ever touched on again? Nope.
None of this is to say that Voygager shouldn't have had more continuity — it should have. But even serial television — or at least those serials like DS9 (or nuBSG) that aren't scripted fully in advance — are going to leave a bunch of unresolved stuff.
DS9: "Necessary Evil" ends with a big dramatic fallout in which Odo tells Kira he doesn't know whether he can trust her anymore. Any lasting repercussions from this? Nope.
In DS9: "Hard Time", poor O'Brien spends decades in prison (simulated, but real to him). Any lasting repercussions from this? Nope (one passing reference in one subsequent episode, if I remember right).
In DS9: "In the Pale Moonlight" Sisko becomes an accessory to murder and delivers a wrenching monologue wondering whether he can live with himself. Is this hugely famous, series-defining moment ever touched on again? Nope.
None of this is to say that Voygager shouldn't have had more continuity — it should have. But even serial television — or at least those serials like DS9 (or nuBSG) that aren't scripted fully in advance — are going to leave a bunch of unresolved stuff.
A minor point, but the warp speed limit imposed in “Force of Nature.”
I would have kept Picard borged. It would have made the Borg more interesting as enemies -- I mean, the crew is fighting a former friend, someone they'd lived and worked with for years. Not only that, but Picard's presence on the Borg cube would mean that the Borg know them better than they know themselves. Their thought patterns, weaknesses, strengths, procedures, all of it. Plus they have to adjust to a new commander.
I do think year of hell should have been a lot longer. I think the crew in survival mode would have been a nice change of pace.
Just in general, if I were writing for the series, the rule would be if you can't come up with a GOOD reason why everything is fine at the end of the hour, the change stays.
I do think year of hell should have been a lot longer. I think the crew in survival mode would have been a nice change of pace.
Just in general, if I were writing for the series, the rule would be if you can't come up with a GOOD reason why everything is fine at the end of the hour, the change stays.
I dunno, making Picard into a permanent villain (until he's killed off) would've been shooting themselves in the foot for losing their best actor and character. Maybe for half a season, but the entire series?
Having him be permanently affected (which is pretty much what happened) and have some permanent scars from the experience (physical) would work fine too. And have Riker leave to be his own captain and return as a recurring character (captain of his own vessel).
Having him be permanently affected (which is pretty much what happened) and have some permanent scars from the experience (physical) would work fine too. And have Riker leave to be his own captain and return as a recurring character (captain of his own vessel).
LOL I remember wanting Shelby to stick around. I think my choice was to leave Picard as Locutus as a recurring character for a while before eventually being saved in like Season 5 or something.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
Both options would have been good ideas. Because once it became apparent they would hit the reset button during the season premier (part two of the cliffhanger) the following cliffhangers lost, to me at least, any real dramatic effect.
In fact, I will argue until the day I die that the reason BOWB was as successful as it was, was because we didn't know what was going to happen. Then came the news that Stewart may have been leaving the show which was why they did it and..well..it fed the "WTF" aspect of that cliffhanger...
But not so in the later cliffhangers. We all knew it would all go back to being plain old TNG.
In fact, this same reset crap is why I gave up on SMALLVILLE. Every season ended this way;
Lana is on the verge of finding out who Clark is...all hell breaks loose!!!! They end up being seperated (throw Lex into this) and wow..things look real bad.
Then it takes one or two episodes in the new season to get Lana back in high-school, Clark's identity saved, Lex to be a bone head...and...we spend the next twenty-episodes with a freak of the week unleashed by a new 'kryptonite' fragment being found...
But then again, smallville is still going. But not with me. I checked out three years ago...
Rob
Yeah, I'm not sure that would have played well over the rest of the series. It definitely would have been cool to have them draw it out a lot more than they did, somewhere in the neighborhood of ten or twelve episodes. I guess you could go as far as a full season (with maybe a few of the episodes dealing in one-shot side stories and brief diversions from the main plot), but even that would have been kind of stretching it.
Repeating many people on here- but I'd say Voyager. When the premise came up the conflict between Maquis and Starfleet is what made the show sound so interesting to me. I don't understand why you'd just go and gut the basic premise of a show.
The second one is Undiscovered Country. Just rewatched the first six movies and UC would have been so much better if the betrayer had been Saavik. Upon rewatching I don't think UC held up too well. Oh, who could be the betrayer, I don't know? The only new person on the bridge crew?! UC did make FF look a lot better in comparison.
The second one is Undiscovered Country. Just rewatched the first six movies and UC would have been so much better if the betrayer had been Saavik. Upon rewatching I don't think UC held up too well. Oh, who could be the betrayer, I don't know? The only new person on the bridge crew?! UC did make FF look a lot better in comparison.
Is it established canon that a design modification to warp engines solved the problem, or is it just something we were left to assume when the warp speed limit was quietly forgotten?
Anyway, the OP was criticizing the common use of the reset button. Having an offscreen (not even mentioned onscreen, so far as I can recall) solution to the problem make everything go back the way it was before the problem was discovered is an example of a reset button.
It’s a particularly obnoxious reset, because it cuts the heart out of the episode that presented the issue. (I can forgive TNG for this sin only because I was never a really big fan of Force of Nature in the first place.) FoN tried to say, “We are doing things that damage the environment and we have to be more aware and stop being so destructive. This means making some sacrifices.” The facile solution that quickly followed said, “Don’t worry about how we’re damaging the environment. You won’t have to make sacrifices. Just keep doing things the way you always have, and it won’t be long at all before some clever engineers you’ve never heard of and never will hear of design some new technology to solve the problem without you changing anything.”
Good points about the first two in particular... but to be fair, Sisko's big dramatic monologue ends with him unequivocally concluding: I can live with it (which is probably the reason why it is considered such a famous and defining moment).
