O'Brien out, Leno back in?

[MeanJoePhaser]

What, mean-spirited and contemptuous of his audience?

I thought that was David Letterman.

Conan never seemed as ego-driven as most of them.

Leno, Letterman, Kimmel and yeah, Carson (Not Daly), have this smarminess to them. I suppose you could say it counterbalanced out the big egos they had as guests. (Conan seemed a little too worshipful of some guests sometimes.)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What, mean-spirited and contemptuous of his audience?

I've been watching Leno for long enough to know that he's never been mean-spirited. Not onstage, anyway. In fact that's why I like his stuff so much, 'cos he's got the nice-guy act. (Which is also why I *don't* watch Conan or Letterman. Especially Letterman. That guy can be flat-out mean.)

 

[bigdaddy]

^ Meh, I think Leno *is* funny. I'm glad he got the show back. Not that I don't care what happens to Conan, 'cos I do; OTOH, I just prefer Leno's style of humor.

90s joke that went out of style 10 years ago once Clinton left office?

However I disagree with EVERYTHING you have ever said, so.....

 

[TheGodBen]

^ If the network says otherwise, then that's it, really. It doesn't matter what Leno *or* Conan think. They do what NBC says, or they're out of a job.

Now Conan is out of a job. He chose to walk out of his dream job even though he claims he was the hardest thing he ever did because he respected the institution of the show so much.

Leno had a contract with NBC which promised him that his show would have 2 years at 10pm or he gets a massive payout (bigger than Conan's), so he could have stuck to his guns and demanded that they kept his show on the air at 10pm as his contract promised. He didn't have to accept the 11:35 slot, and when Conan walked he didn't have to accept The Tonight Show back, but he chose to do so both times. So no, Leno didn't have to do what NBC told him to do, he had a contract and he could have stuck it to NBC when they tried to move him, and if NBC decided to take the financial hit then Leno would have been getting the sympathy and not Conan.

Instead Leno agreed to a plan which would have screwed over Conan, Fallon and that other guy. That's why he's not the only villain of this story, but he is one of them.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

As much as I support Conan in all this, the huge ratings don't really mean much in terms of a message to NBC. I'm glad he got them; it'll make him and his staff feel pretty good, but NBC will attribute it to all of the discussion in the news, and rightly so.

The main upside is that it probably exposed Conan to lots of viewers who don't normally watch, and those who enjoyed him might follow him to a new network.

What will be telling is Leno's ratings a few months into his return. Let's see how he does without any decent lead-ins.

 

[Checkmate]

I've been watching Leno for long enough to know that he's never been mean-spirited. Not onstage, anyway. In fact that's why I like his stuff so much, 'cos he's got the nice-guy act[/i]. (Which is also why I *don't* watch Conan or Letterman. Especially Letterman. That guy can be flat-out mean.)

Emphasis mine.

And sorry, but anyone who has to explain almost every joke he tells (either directly or indirectly through whatever-his-name-is in the band) is a pathetically shitty comedian.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

However I disagree with EVERYTHING you have ever said, so.....

Join the club.

Having said all this, I do think there's some things Leno can do to make things right. His monologue on his first day back will be very important.

At first I thought he should have Conan as a guest, but AFAIK Conan is not allowed to do any guest appearances until something like September, isn't that right? And anything that happens between them onstage is likely to be perceived as a faked publicity stunt anyway.

I do find it rather unlikely that there's going to be some massive Hollywood backlash against Leno or that he's going to become some kind of societal pariah. Things will go on. Leno will keep Tonight Show (hopefully with Melendez, Eubanks and the rest of them). Conan will get a new show. Andy Richter will be an annoying whiner. Such is life.

 

[Akiraprise]

Leno's humor is bland and boring most times.
Conan's is the opposite.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

What, mean-spirited and contemptuous of his audience?

I've been watching Leno for long enough to know that he's never been mean-spirited. Not onstage, anyway. In fact that's why I like his stuff so much, 'cos he's got the nice-guy act. (Which is also why I *don't* watch Conan or Letterman. Especially Letterman. That guy can be flat-out mean.)

Leno's most popular segment is "Jaywalking," which is about as mean-spirited and contemptuous as you can get. Don't be fooled by Letterman's gruff demeanor and Leno patting a guy on the back when his answers are stupid.

Jay may act more affable, but his actual content is generally meaner.



Edit: Wait a sec; I can accept that someone might find Richter annoying, but how in hell is he a whiner?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Leno's most popular segment is "Jaywalking," which is about as mean-spirited and contemptuous as you can get.

Worked for Leno, Howard Stern *and* Rick Mercer.

And in all cases, I don't think you can blame the hosts for the stupidity of the guests.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Sure, like I said, it's his most popular segment. That wasn't the point, though.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I honestly don't think Jaywalking is mean. Sure, the people Leno interviews are idiots, but that's their own damn problem. If they think Leno's being mean to them, let them read a book or something. And besides, it's not like he's ambushing them or anything. Everyone knows what's going on. That's part of the fun, innit?

And some of the interviewees, like Angela Ramos (remember her? ), parlayed an appearance on Jaywalking into a sort of career unto itself...

 

[Sci]

And I don't really get the Leno hate, either. If you don't think he's funny, that's one thing. But I find it hard to believe that he was personally responsible for all this.

It's not that anyone thinks he's responsible for it per se. But he is responsible for his decision not to stop it. Leno could have stopped the whole thing at any time by simply saying, "No, The Tonight Show is Conan's now, I said that I would give it to him six years ago, and I'm not going to screw Conan over by hosting it again." Instead, Leno chose to take the show back -- and in doing so, chose to go back on his word.

That's why everyone's pissed at Leno.

For anyone to think that Leno didn't play a role in this whole thing that's ludicris, he may not have orchestrated it,but he certanely didn't stop it.

I doubt there's anything he *could* have done to stop it. He goes where NBC says. NBC's the villain here, not him.

Of course he could have stopped it. NBC actually had to pay Leno money because by canceling The Jay Leno Show, they were in breach of contract. They would have also been in breach of contract with Leno if they had re-scheduled The Jay Leno Show for any time other than 10:00 PM Eastern time. Then, once they cancelled The Jay Leno Show, they had to negotiate an entire new contract with Leno for him to take over The Tonight Show.

That means that Leno could at any point have simply said, "I won't negotiate a new contract with NBC," and walked away. He chose not to.

^ Ah, so you expect Leno to fall on his sword just to make Conan feel better?

No. I expect him to live up to his word when he promised to hand over The Tonight Show and let his time as host end.

^ If the network says otherwise, then that's it, really. It doesn't matter what Leno *or* Conan think. They do what NBC says, or they're out of a job.

Yes, that's it exactly -- Leno should have been willing to be out of a job in order to keep his own word and in order to avoid screwing over someone else. The guy has $800 million and fifty thousand expensive cars. He doesn't need the work.

 

[John Picard]

Who wants to lay out odds Tonight Show ratings will plummet after the Olympics and not recover?

 

[Sci]

Who wants to lay out odds Tonight Show ratings will plummet after the Olympics and not recover?

I don't want ratings to plummet -- I want The Tonight Show, as an institution, to survive. But I surely do hope that it always comes in third place after The Late Show With David Letterman and whatever Conan's new show ends up being called for as long as Jay Leno remains the host.

 

[Broccoli]

I have a feeling the first few shows of Jay's Tonight Show will get really good ratings mostly due to people wanting to see what goes down in terms of audience reaction and Jay's comments (if any) on the situation. I suspect that even people who say "I'll never watch Jay's Tonight Show" will turn in to the first episode.

Then I can see it go down and be on par with how Conan's were before this whole ordeal.

 

[Major Chord]

I've been following this whole situation since it started, and I have to say, I'm a bit miffed at how it turned out. I personally think that Leno should have just decided (given the choice) to end his hosting gig, and let Conan stay. The guy has earned his (now defunct) 11:35 spot, in my opinion.

However, I don't see Jay as the big bad guy in all this. While I agree that he should have declined to host again, and could have declined to host again, he was doing what was in the best interest of himself, and the nearly 200 people employed on his show. I have to say I was intrigued to read all the opinions people had of Leno, and his attitude/personally. Interesting stuff.

As for conan, I hope he gets a new show on another network, possibly and hopefully Fox. I would follow him there, and watch him. I like his brand of comedy. It jives more with my sense of humor-he and Craig Ferguson are my favorite late night hosts, by far. However, I will still continue to tune into the Tonight Show (or at least watch segments online), because I enjoy segments like Headlines, and Jay Walking. Those are funny not because of Jay's comedy, but because of the sheer stupidity of the newspaper headlines and participants.

I would have loved to see Conan's tonight show live up to it's full potential, but I feel he has some great stuff ahead of him, and wish him the best. His ending monologue made me shed a few tears, and I hope that a few copies of it survive on the internet, because it was a truly touching 'speech'.

On a slightly unrelated note, I think it's ironic that Conan's last Tonight Show aired today (or, finished today at 12:30), the 5th anniversary of Johnny Carson's death. Kinda fitting I guess, in an odd way.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Ah, so you expect Leno to fall on his sword just to make Conan feel better?

No. I expect him to live up to his word when he promised to hand over The Tonight Show and let his time as host end.

A promise that NBC almost certainly forced Leno into making.

Leno should have been willing to be out of a job in order to keep his own word and in order to avoid screwing over someone else. The guy has $800 million and fifty thousand expensive cars. He doesn't need the work.

Conan O'Brien doesn't need the work either. Perhaps Leno has a few more millions than O'Brien. But when both hosts in question are multi-millionaires, I don't think either one deserves any pity or sympathy or can be classified as "the little guy." Compared to 99.9999% of the people in the world, O'Brien & Leno both have no real problems. We're not talking about any moral issues here. It's a personal preference which one you think is more entertaining.

What, mean-spirited and contemptuous of his audience?

I've been watching Leno for long enough to know that he's never been mean-spirited. Not onstage, anyway. In fact that's why I like his stuff so much, 'cos he's got the nice-guy act. (Which is also why I *don't* watch Conan or Letterman. Especially Letterman. That guy can be flat-out mean.)

Leno's most popular segment is "Jaywalking," which is about as mean-spirited and contemptuous as you can get. Don't be fooled by Letterman's gruff demeanor and Leno patting a guy on the back when his answers are stupid.

Jay may act more affable, but his actual content is generally meaner.

Conan has a razor sharp wit that he sometimes uses to skewer his guests but mostly he aims it at himself.

Generally, I'd call David Letterman gruff but not mean spirited. The exception to that is when politics come up. His list of "Things that are more fun than reading Sarah Palin's book" was both mean AND not funny. Even Triumph the Insult Comic Dog never dripped such venom against his targets as Letterman reserves for Palin.

"Jaywalking" isn't always the kindest of comedy bits. However, at least it doesn't have the nasty nationalism of Rick Mercer's "Talking to Americans." And if you want really rude & insulting, you should have seen "Hollywood Douchebags" on Talk Show with Spike Feresten.

 

[Sci]

Ah, so you expect Leno to fall on his sword just to make Conan feel better?

No. I expect him to live up to his word when he promised to hand over The Tonight Show and let his time as host end.

A promise that NBC almost certainly forced Leno into making.

Then he should have fought it then. But the fact is, he made a promise and now he's gone back on it. He shouldn't have made a promise he had no intention of actually honoring.

Conan O'Brien doesn't need the work either. Perhaps Leno has a few more millions than O'Brien. But when both hosts in question are multi-millionaires, I don't think either one deserves any pity or sympathy or can be classified as "the little guy."

Neither of them are the little guy, and no one has claimed that they are. But the fact is that Conan was screwed over by Leno and by NBC. I'm not saying you should have pity for him -- he's rich and he'll land on his feet somewhere else. But he still got screwed over.

Compared to 99.9999% of the people in the world, O'Brien & Leno both have no real problems. We're not talking about any moral issues here. It's a personal preference which one you think is more entertaining.

I actually almost never watched either one of them before this debacle. I just object to saying you'll give someone else a gig and then taking it away from them when it's not clear that they're failing at their job (on NBC's end), and to telling someone else that you'll willingly give them your gig and then going back on your word (on Leno's part).

 

[Sci]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VEiCeMSZP4[/yt]

Letterman makes a brief appearance on the third anniversary of Late Night With Conan O'Brien in 1996.

"And in nine years, in nine years, you guys can switch networks and start making some real money."

Off by about four years, but not too bad a prediction.