"Obeserver Effect": A Rebuke of the Prime Directive?

[BillJ]

Watching "Observer Effect" today, I get the idea that the episode is something of a rebuke of the Prime Directive.

REED: All this would have happened whether we were here or not. We are not responsible.

This is from an Organian inhabiting Reed's body and sounds almost like it could come from Picard, Janeway or Archer.

ARCHER: Not from where I'm standing. Maybe you've evolved into beings with abilities I can't comprehend, but you've paid a hell of a price. You've lost compassion and empathy. Things that give life meaning. And if that's what it takes to be advanced, I don't want any part of it.

You have to wonder in their strive for human perfection that the characters didn't begin to lose compassion for those that were less fortunate than humans were.

I wonder if Archer would've regretted his actions in regard to the Valakians from "Dear, Doctor" if he has remembered the events of "Observer Effect"?

 

[sonak]

Watching "Observer Effect" today, I get the idea that the episode is something of a rebuke of the Prime Directive.

REED: All this would have happened whether we were here or not. We are not responsible.

This is from an Organian inhabiting Reed's body and sounds almost like it could come from Picard, Janeway or Archer.

ARCHER: Not from where I'm standing. Maybe you've evolved into beings with abilities I can't comprehend, but you've paid a hell of a price. You've lost compassion and empathy. Things that give life meaning. And if that's what it takes to be advanced, I don't want any part of it.

You have to wonder in their strive for human perfection that the characters didn't begin to lose compassion for those that were less fortunate than humans were.

I wonder if Archer would've regretted his actions in regard to the Valakians from "Dear, Doctor" if he has remembered the events of "Observer Effect"?

It's been speculated by fans(like internet reviewer SFDebris) that it is a rebuke and apology for "Dear Doctor."

I wonder if they noted the irony in having PHLOX, PHLOX OF ALL CHARACTERS be morally outraged at the Organians.

 

[DonIago]

Perhaps it's merely a case study in how it's much easier to invoke non-interference (for better or worse) when you're the ones who would be (in the short-term at least) doing the interfering rather than the ones who would (for better or worse) be interfered with.

 

[Lexx Shrapnel]

Darkness was an even bigger rebuke. I am so glad it will die. The warp capability = maturity is so stupid.

 

[DonIago]

Are you suggesting that the Federation should instead feel free to screw around with every less advanced culture they encounter?

 

[T'Girl]

How is having a certain type of propulsion system an indication of "more civilized?"

A civilization could be socially and culturally quite advanced without having high technology (and the means to build a warp drive).

Simply interacting with a civilization doesn't automatically equate to screwing with it.

 

[DonIago]

Well, what standard would you use, then?

It's understandable that the Federation would want some sort of basic threshold to work with.

 

[sonak]

Are you suggesting that the Federation should instead feel free to screw around with every less advanced culture they encounter?

how do you define "screw around?"


Do you think the Federation SHOULDN'T offer humanitarian assistance/aid in situations where they have the technology and resources to do so? Because that's what the TNG-era PD would say.

I understand not wanting to interfere with the politics or culture, but I don't understand how providing famine or disaster relief is "interference."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, what standard would you use, then?

Common sense.

 

[DonIago]

In my experience, "common" sense is far less common than its name might suggest.

Violating the PD to offer humanitarian aid is one thing. Violating it just because you want to meet every interesting civilization you come across is something else entirely.

 

[T'Girl]

Well, what standard would you use, then?.

Social and cultural development.

Violating it just because you want to meet every interesting civilization you come across is something else entirely.

Seek out new life and new civilizations.

Why deprive yourself and the Federation of experiencing the (alien equivalent of) Italian Renaissance, or learning from Gautama Buddha. Think of the knowledge and insight you'd lose by saying ...

"well, they apparently don't have a warp drive, let's move on."

 

[DonIago]

For the same reason I don't think we should go tromping into the Amazon to make contact with every tribe that might be living there.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In my experience, "common" sense is far less common than its name might suggest.

Violating the PD to offer humanitarian aid is one thing.

Well, which is it?

Despite what the propaganda of the day may suggest, there are still certain things in the universe that are obvious. Humanitarian aid, for example, is an absolute good. That's as good an example of common sense as can ever exist.

 

[HIjol]

Wonder how long it would have been before the Federation Observers on Ba'ku would have realized the extent to which the people there were advanced, if Data had not malfunctioned. One way to "know" (judge?) a people is to interact and learn the philosophy and history of that people. Knowing that observing a thing changes it, this is more easily said than done, but without a thoughtful, considered study, how can anyone know?

 

[DonIago]

Is humanitarian aid an absolute good? Yes, the Nibiru were "saved" in Into Darkness, but the culture as it existed to that point was, as shown, as effectively annihilated as if the volcano had erupted. Whatever they might have become is lost.

Of course, the people themselves survive, and that's certainly better than nothing, but the damage that was nevertheless inflicted shouldn't be overlooked on the grounds of "it could have been worse".

And one wonders how they might feel if, centuries in the future, they learned that their civilization was essentially screwed with (albeit with good-intentions) by the Federation.

Heh, I was wondering how long it would be before someone brought up the Baku. In that case Dougherty, at least, already knew they weren't indigenous to the planet.

 

[T'Girl]

For the same reason I don't think we should go tromping into the Amazon to make contact with every tribe that might be living there.

Average life expectancy in Brazil is 74 years, estimate for the uncontacted indigenous people of the Amazon is 45 years.

Yes, the Nibiru were "saved" in Into Darkness, but the culture as it existed to that point was, as shown, as effectively annihilated as if the volcano had erupted.

One village on the whole planet, and even then only a handful of people.

 

[DonIago]

And humanity has such a good track record when it comes to first contacts with indigenous people too.

 

[MikeS]

Average life expectancy in Brazil is 74 years, estimate for the uncontacted indigenous people of the Amazon is 45 years.

I was about to agree with your statement. I mean, imagine if there were a whole technological advanced society out there that hadn't "discovered" us yet - I'd want to meet them and have them share their knowledge with us - "we" are like that to those tribes!

But then I remembered the Spanish & the Aztecs - the Aztecs wiped out by European disease they weren't immune to. And then there's the fictional War Of The Worlds where the tables are turned, the more advanced civilisation suffering the fate of the tribe.

It's a toughie. Protect and let a culture develop naturally on its own (who's to say that someone from that culture might not be an Einstein or Newton that benefits the "advanced" society). Or let them have all the medical and scientific expertise that benefits us.

I do still tend to agree with your sentiments though.

 

[BillJ]

Is humanitarian aid an absolute good? Yes, the Nibiru were "saved" in Into Darkness, but the culture as it existed to that point was, as shown, as effectively annihilated as if the volcano had erupted. Whatever they might have become is lost.

We actually have zero proof that "whatever they might become is lost". I think this sentiment is the inherent problem with the Prime Directive (mostly in the 24th century). We treat these people like a monolithic entity that are all going to just jump off a cliff if a few of them see a peak behind the curtain. At most, a couple dozen Nibiru saw the Enterprise but have no idea what it was they saw.

Heck, we're not even dealing with a scenario where the planet has instantaneous communications. The Nibiru depicted could all die long before they ever even encounter another tribe.

 

[at Quark's]

I'd say it is not a rebuke of the prime directive per se, but of the Organian attitude and motivations that seems to be behind their version of the PD.

The Organians in that episode seem like a cold, clinical observer race, who really don't give a damn about their target species if they're not 'worthy' for first contact (well except for the Mayweather Organian). The Organians' attitude in TOS seems more concerned, but then, humanity already had passed the test.

Take TNG 'homeward' for example. In my opinion, both a 'good' way to invoke the PD, and a 'wrong' way are shown in this episode. The wrong one being Picard's approach, saing 'well, it's a pity for that species but because of the PD we cannot help them, let them all die'. (I'm still angry with Picard for that one -- if the goal of the PD is not to needlessly contaminate cultures, certainly contamination still beats extinction? ).

The 'good' way being to transport the aliens in a holodeck to another, safe planet, but never show them who you actually are, so as to not contaminate the culture. And indeed, when one Boralian learns the truth after all, he is so shocked he commits suicide, perhaps indicating that that culture really couldn't have dealt with the presence of advanced aliens.