"Obeserver Effect": A Rebuke of the Prime Directive?

[T'Girl]

Well, that would depend on whether or not you believe Dougherty when he said he was acting on Council authority. I don't, and never will, believe that.

Okay, if the Federation Council didn't send Dougherty to the planet as part of a official mission in the first place, why was Dougherty there at all?

If it wasn't a official mission, why was Data there at all?

IMHO, the Sona approached the Federation Council, other than the Baku and the Sona were the same people the Council knew all the facts, the Council approved the project, the Council told Starfleet to oversee the project, Starfleet Command at that point selected Admiral Dougherty.

Plus having the guy getting talked into letting the Son'a blow up the Enterprise makes you wonder what else Ru'afo talked him into.

I don't think Dougherty had any control over that.

Remember, when Doughterty wanted to order Riker to turn around, Roafo wouldn't let him (the Admiral was on Roafo's ship). Later when Dougherty ask to be taken to the surface to talk directly with Picard Roafo refused.

Dougherty had no control over events, he didn't let Roafo do anything..

Dougherty "agreed" only that Roafo would send ships to escort Riker back, he knew Roafo would do anything he wanted regardless of what Dougherty agreed to.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, that would depend on whether or not you believe Dougherty when he said he was acting on Council authority. I don't, and never will, believe that.

Okay, if the Federation Council didn't send Dougherty to the planet as part of a official mission in the first place, why was Dougherty there at all?

I'm sticking with my theory (which is also supported by the novels, IIRC) that Dougherty was part of Section 31.

I just don't believe the Federation in general would stoop to such low levels as we saw Dougherty do in this film. They're simply not that evil. Section 31 is, though. This is exactly the kind of thing they'd do.

 

[T'Girl]

I just don't believe the Federation in general would stoop to such low levels as we saw Dougherty do in this film.

What low levels? The Baku would be safely removed, the particles harvested, and many billions within the Federation would benefit. Sound like exactly the sort of thing the Federation Council would do, looking after the Federation Membership and the immigrant Baku and their children go unharmed.

I can certainly see the Federation Council ensuring that the Baku continue to have access to the particles after relocation.

Just not exclusive access.

They're simply not that evil.

If they were actually evil than there would have been no effect to remove the Baku first, they simply would have let them fry on the planet's surface.

If you'll recall, when Roafo wanted to begin the harvest with Baku still on the surface, Dougherty told him to stop.

Why would someone supposedly "evil" have said stop?

Why Mr. Laser Beam, why why why?

Section 31 is, though. This is exactly the kind of thing they'd do.

In so far as the operation would benefit many billions of people within the Federation, and Section 31 is dedicated to safety and well being of the Federation, I would agree with that.

But I don't thing S31 was involved in the operation in any way.

 

[eyeresist]

Average life expectancy in Brazil is 74 years, estimate for the uncontacted indigenous people of the Amazon is 45 years.

Would that be Schrodinger's tribe?

Hey, anyone remember when we were discussing "Observer Effect"?

A good episode except for Archer's "humans are awesome" speech at the end. (Though I understand that kind of thing played well in previous series.)

I rewatched the 'Observer Effect' this week- I do not really see how that violated the Prime Directive even in spirit.

Well, they did take over people's bodies without their consent. Surely that's against the rules.

 

[Richard Baker]

I rewatched the 'Observer Effect' this week- I do not really see how that violated the Prime Directive even in spirit.

Well, they did take over people's bodies without their consent. Surely that's against the rules.

As far as I know the Prime Directive involved cultural contamination with a species which is prewarp or determined to be not ready for first contact. Taking over a person's body and leaving no knowledge about this happening does not seem to fall into that. It might be against some rule or code of conduct, but not the Prime Directive.

The Organians observed and left no trace of their time on that ship- nothing changed whatsoever aside from three people getting better and the Doctor thought his treatment was responsible for that.

 

[eyeresist]

As far as I know the Prime Directive involved cultural contamination with a species which is prewarp or determined to be not ready for first contact. Taking over a person's body and leaving no knowledge about this happening does not seem to fall into that.

It would be classed as assault, which would presumably be against at least the spirit of the Directive.