Niners Unite...around Babylon 5!
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Man..... we just watched "Sleeping In Light" last night, and I found myself getting annoyed at all the distracting noises around. Kids working on homework, playing computer games, etc.......
Whenever I host a B5 marathon, we traditionally close with this one, regardless of the overall theme
Whenever I host a B5 marathon, we traditionally close with this one, regardless of the overall theme
Not on this board. There are none.
Oh, there are bursts where B5 or Firefly or whatever seem to be all the rage, but Farscape is the constant background noise around here that just doesn't go away.
I'm simply saying to keep expectations reasonable. Don't go into it expecting instant perfection, because it does have a rather long ramp-up period like many shows do.
I have to disagree. Babylon 5 gets much more hype than Farscape here. So does Firefly. And though I'm grateful that the boards here lead me to both shows, both are routinely touted as the second coming when they're not. That being said, Farscape isn't the second coming, either. It's my favorite show, but like all television creations, it's flawed. But as long as the OP keeps keeps his/her expectations reasonable like you said, and sits through some of the early episodes, it'll be worth it.
I'm just watching the commentary for The Gathering. I had already watched The Gathering right at the beginning I started this, I just hadn't seen the commentary for it yet. I'll be watching the movies where they fall chronologically (with the exception of In The Beginning, which I'll be watching between seasons 4 and 5, and A Call To Arms which I will watch after Sleeping In Light but right before Crusade.) I'll be watching Thirdspace soon.
Tonight I'll try to watch The Long Night and possibly Into The Fire. If you remember one of my previous posts, I'm watching Star Trek straight through with my brother currently as well. Tonight we'll be starting The Final Chapter with Penumbra and 'Til Death Do Us Part. So it's going to be a great night of television!
Sweet!
And on a slightly different note, I went back and took a look at how I rated DS9's and B5's seasons in comparison to each other. I had set up the list before I had seen all of season 5 of B5.
So, just for anyone who's interested, here's the new order (I noted the previous placement in the ranking in brackets):
1. DS9 S7
2. DS9 S6
3. DS9 S5
4. B5 S3
5. DS9 S4
6. B5 S4
7. B5 S2
8. DS9 S2
9. B5 S5 (12)
10. DS9 S3 (9)
11. DS9 S1 (10)
12. B5 S1 (11)
So, it's moved up a bit. I was close to putting it above DS9's season 2 (and would have had it only been for the final third or so) but just found that the beginning dragged it down too much for that.
Justtoyourleft, I agree with who you have in first place. DS9 season 7 is my favourite as well.
Mmmmm.... I can't honestly put that many above B5's seasons 3 & 4. I know... I am somewhat biased, but I am familiar enough with each show that I can't put anything above them. On par with? Yes. Above? No. It's very close, and personally I think DS9's season 6 is the best of its offerings, slightly ahead of season 7. But it's close... very close.
Glad you like it that much as well! It's really got a lot of great episodes, I think. Among other ones, I really adore almost everything about the final 10 episodes. Essentially, DS9 really left me wanting more which is really a good thing, I believe.
I think when you get down to looking at those seasons - DS9 6, 7 and, might I add, 5 as well as B5 seasons 3 and 4 - you're really looking at a very high level. You can't really go wrong with any of them, and I personally think it's hard to find equally strong seasons from other shows (at the very least within SciFi).
^^
On those, I'd have to disagree. I ADORED TNG back when in the day but I've come to think that DS9 and B5 are simply in a class of their own (I'd personally include nuBSG in that class but that's a different issue) in comparison.
I don't mind watching TNG every now and then but it just seems, I don't know, almost empty on some level in comparison. I don't know what other way to put it. In the end, it just doesn't engage me in the same way.
On those, I'd have to disagree. I ADORED TNG back when in the day but I've come to think that DS9 and B5 are simply in a class of their own (I'd personally include nuBSG in that class but that's a different issue) in comparison.
I don't mind watching TNG every now and then but it just seems, I don't know, almost empty on some level in comparison. I don't know what other way to put it. In the end, it just doesn't engage me in the same way.
What gets tricky is comparing shows from different eras/decades/etc. Plus... I often times give credit to the series that "did it first" or at least before. B5 represented a significant departure from the way television execs thought sci-fi shows had to go. TNG had already taken a similarly divergent step. DS9, imho did what TNG did but perhaps overall did it better yet it still benefited from TNG "blazing the trail.
What B5 did differently was present a compelling story but it's major contribution came in the actual production of a television show. They used a production model that deviated from what most other shows used.
What B5 did differently was present a compelling story but it's major contribution came in the actual production of a television show. They used a production model that deviated from what most other shows used.
The Long Night
This is my favourite of the first six episodes of season 4. It's probably because it features my favourite characters (Londo, Vir, and G'Kar) prominently. It was nice to see Londo's plan work for once. I thought for sure G'Kar would kill Cartagia, despite what Londo told him to do, but it turns out my fears were unwarranted. I love it that Vir was the one who killed Cartagia. The nice, gentle Vir now has blood on his hands. That's amazing for his growth as a character. I also like the end where he's looking out his window at the fireworks. He can't look at his face anymore in the mirror, but by killing Cartagia, he's freed all the Narns. Abrahamo Lincolni would be proud
. Regarding the other plotline, the Shadows now have a planet killer of their own. Thus making every planet in danger of being destroyed. But Sheridan has a plan, and so he goes into the fire...
Into The Fire
I can't help but feel disappointed by this episode. The ending of the shadow conflict felt very anticlimactic. Sheridan and Delenn convince these uber-powerful races to leave them alone? Yeah... Here I was hoping for a massive battle and what I got was a debate. However, it did make sense taking in past episodes. If it did end in a massive battle, I don't see how the lesser races would have survived with it making sense. It's too bad it was all so disappointing. In a way, it reminds me of DS9's What You Leave Behind with Odo curing the Founder and ending the war because of that. The only difference is in DS9 we already had the huge battles, we already had 5 seasons of the Dominion. I wasn't left wishing we had more. The Dominion had run their course. With regards to B5, we get all this build up to this shadow conflict, all the way from Signs & Portents, and all we're left with is build up. There was no payoff. That's not to say I didn't like this episode. I really liked the Londo/Vir side of the story. Londo being able to outwit the Shadows for once really felt good and almost made up for the disappointment in the other plot. Having Morden's head on a pike is something I figured would happen after Vir "foresaw" it. It was hilarious to see it realized though and seeing Vir wave at it was classic
. Seeing the Vorlon planet killer blocking out the sun was also an effective image. Londo has really changed. He started off as a funny character, living life to its fullest, then he became tempted by power and became almost of an evil character, now he has become a self-sacrificing nice person, even wanting Vir to kill him if it meant saving his world from destruction. I love where Londo's journey is right now. I've always loved the character, and now I like him even more now that I can sympathize with him.
Now that the Shadow/Vorlon/First Ones plot is ended, I don't know where the storyline is heading. Maybe more conflict with Earth? Anyway, I'm very interested to see where the continuing saga of Babylon 5 takes me next.
This is my favourite of the first six episodes of season 4. It's probably because it features my favourite characters (Londo, Vir, and G'Kar) prominently. It was nice to see Londo's plan work for once. I thought for sure G'Kar would kill Cartagia, despite what Londo told him to do, but it turns out my fears were unwarranted. I love it that Vir was the one who killed Cartagia. The nice, gentle Vir now has blood on his hands. That's amazing for his growth as a character. I also like the end where he's looking out his window at the fireworks. He can't look at his face anymore in the mirror, but by killing Cartagia, he's freed all the Narns. Abrahamo Lincolni would be proud
. Regarding the other plotline, the Shadows now have a planet killer of their own. Thus making every planet in danger of being destroyed. But Sheridan has a plan, and so he goes into the fire...Into The Fire
I can't help but feel disappointed by this episode. The ending of the shadow conflict felt very anticlimactic. Sheridan and Delenn convince these uber-powerful races to leave them alone? Yeah... Here I was hoping for a massive battle and what I got was a debate. However, it did make sense taking in past episodes. If it did end in a massive battle, I don't see how the lesser races would have survived with it making sense. It's too bad it was all so disappointing. In a way, it reminds me of DS9's What You Leave Behind with Odo curing the Founder and ending the war because of that. The only difference is in DS9 we already had the huge battles, we already had 5 seasons of the Dominion. I wasn't left wishing we had more. The Dominion had run their course. With regards to B5, we get all this build up to this shadow conflict, all the way from Signs & Portents, and all we're left with is build up. There was no payoff. That's not to say I didn't like this episode. I really liked the Londo/Vir side of the story. Londo being able to outwit the Shadows for once really felt good and almost made up for the disappointment in the other plot. Having Morden's head on a pike is something I figured would happen after Vir "foresaw" it. It was hilarious to see it realized though and seeing Vir wave at it was classic
. Seeing the Vorlon planet killer blocking out the sun was also an effective image. Londo has really changed. He started off as a funny character, living life to its fullest, then he became tempted by power and became almost of an evil character, now he has become a self-sacrificing nice person, even wanting Vir to kill him if it meant saving his world from destruction. I love where Londo's journey is right now. I've always loved the character, and now I like him even more now that I can sympathize with him.Now that the Shadow/Vorlon/First Ones plot is ended, I don't know where the storyline is heading. Maybe more conflict with Earth? Anyway, I'm very interested to see where the continuing saga of Babylon 5 takes me next.
Tom Riker said:
The Long Night
This is my favourite of the first six episodes of season 4. It's probably because it features my favourite characters (Londo, Vir, and G'Kar) prominently. It was nice to see Londo's plan work for once. I thought for sure G'Kar would kill Cartagia, despite what Londo told him to do, but it turns out my fears were unwarranted. I love it that Vir was the one who killed Cartagia. The nice, gentle Vir now has blood on his hands. That's amazing for his growth as a character. I also like the end where he's looking out his window at the fireworks. He can't look at his face anymore in the mirror, but by killing Cartagia, he's freed all the Narns. Abrahamo Lincolni would be proud
Into The Fire
I can't help but feel disappointed by this episode. The ending of the shadow conflict felt very anticlimactic. Sheridan and Delenn convince these uber-powerful races to leave them alone? Yeah... Here I was hoping for a massive battle and what I got was a debate. However, it did make sense taking in past episodes. If it did end in a massive battle, I don't see how the lesser races would have survived with it making sense. It's too bad it was all so disappointing. In a way, it reminds me of DS9's What You Leave Behind with Odo curing the Founder and ending the war because of that. The only difference is in DS9 we already had the huge battles, we already had 5 seasons of the Dominion. I wasn't left wishing we had more. The Dominion had run their course. With regards to B5, we get all this build up to this shadow conflict, all the way from Signs & Portents, and all we're left with is build up. There was no payoff. That's not to say I didn't like this episode. I really liked the Londo/Vir side of the story. Londo being able to outwit the Shadows for once really felt good and almost made up for the disappointment in the other plot. Having Morden's head on a pike is something I figured would happen after Vir "foresaw" it. It was hilarious to see it realized though and seeing Vir wave at it was classic
Now that the Shadow/Vorlon/First Ones plot is ended, I don't know where the storyline is heading. Maybe more conflict with Earth? Anyway, I'm very interested to see where the continuing saga of Babylon 5 takes me next.
Babylon 5 story is not even near end at this point Tom. There are still lots of pieces to pick up after Shadows/Vorlons conflict. Just keep watching.
As for the final battle being anticlimatic , well it made sense to me. You see for me the concept of Babylon 5 was not about killing and blowing all bad guys. I mean in a way it is but not always
At first JMS tried to create an universe for us which is defined with "light and dark" The problem is althrough sometimes the world should be defined with these concepts sometimes shades of gray also come in to picture. Vorlons wanted order. We all wish order. Otherwise it is chaos and it is harmful for everybody. But order and peace all the time , "to be satisfied with what we have now" is not in the nature of mankind. At the other hand the Shadows main throught was conflict and anarchy and while they were mostly right about evalution through conflict , advancement by using passions and ambition , the constant warfare and anarchy destroys everything. The problem is while they were supposed to guide younger races with their opposite philosopies , they have forgotten their place and role. They began a war of ideology which is lethal for everyone ( except themselves ). Sheridan made them realize this by bringing to sides head to head and uncovering their secrets. If they ( Shadows/Vorlons ) can not not guide others properly and fulfill their roles they were expected to then they have no business here. Finding a balance between Shadow/Vorlon philospies became a job of younger races because they are directly affected with ideology war of "First Ones". If their parents are constantly fighting and can not find their way then children should find their own way. Sheridan reminded remaining First Ones what they have forgotten and brought them to their senses. This was a very unusual ending for gigantic war. That was probably why I liked it.
Can said:
As for the final battle being anticlimatic , well it made sense to me. You see for me the concept of Babylon 5 was not about killing and blowing all bad guys. I mean in a way it is but not always
I agree. It did make sense. To me, there was just something missing. And I think it was that we had too much build up and not enough of a payoff at the end.
Can, I just remembered you're watching DS9 for the first time, so don't read the part about DS9 in my review for Into The Fire. It will blow the ending for you.
^^
I see you felt the same way about the end of the Shadow/Vorlon war. Yes, it does make sense on a certain level but I simply came away feeling there was something missing as well. I can't even say it was a space battle or anything.
I suppose the problem for me was that I just didn't feel that Delenn or Sheridan were at a "level" (whatever that exactly means in this context) at which the Shadows or Vorlons would actually listen to them. I think they could have used Sheridan's death on Z'Hadum (not sure about the spelling) better here. Maybe if that had figured in more heavily or had it been made more clear that this WAS something that changed Sheridan in a way other than predefining his life span or making him more determined.
It's really hard to say exactly.
For me, personally, the end of DS9 worked better because
I know there are people who don't feel this way but I suppose whether it's the end of the Shadow/Vorlon war on B5 or the end of DS9, it's really subjective.
I see you felt the same way about the end of the Shadow/Vorlon war. Yes, it does make sense on a certain level but I simply came away feeling there was something missing as well. I can't even say it was a space battle or anything.
I suppose the problem for me was that I just didn't feel that Delenn or Sheridan were at a "level" (whatever that exactly means in this context) at which the Shadows or Vorlons would actually listen to them. I think they could have used Sheridan's death on Z'Hadum (not sure about the spelling) better here. Maybe if that had figured in more heavily or had it been made more clear that this WAS something that changed Sheridan in a way other than predefining his life span or making him more determined.
It's really hard to say exactly.
For me, personally, the end of DS9 worked better because
I can see why Odo would be in a position to influence the female founder - from their perspective, he's still one of them, they still basically want him back more than anything else.
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