Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Continuing Arc

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Wikiquote, IMDB, and TV.com (though we all lament TVTome's demise) are an excellent resource as well, if you can seed through all the crap that clutters their webpages.

"The Illusion of Truth"
I greatly disliked this episode when I first saw it. I couldn't stand the ISN segments. To great relief, it's not nearly as bad upon second viewing. In fact, it actually is quite good. Thirdspace definitely goes after this one, since Zack is still running around in his greens (though he has been named Chief of Security by this point), but I had the movie in hand and wanted to see it before. The parts before the ISN report are very good. Sheridan in the war room, Garibaldi at his new job, and Zack at work as chief of security. Surprisingly, the ISN Reports are pretty good as well, revealing the lengths at which Clarke's administration is willing to go to distort the truth. In addition, we see a glimpse at how dissidents are treated (a prelude to Sheridan's treatment in The Face of The Enemy, Intersections in Real Time, and Between the Darkness and the Light) and also hear that Sheridan's parents have had their farm destroyed and themselves have gone missing (also a prelude of things to come).

There are two things that do irk me, however. The way Sheridan and Delenn act in their interview makes them seem incredibly naive, to the point of being out of character IMO. The other thing that bothers me is the way the telepaths in cryogenic freeze are treated. Supposedly, they're a secret, yet the ISN crew has easy access to them and Franklin talks about them on an open channel in front of a crowd of people and cameras down below. I think the characters would be smarter than this.

Grade: B+

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

PKTrekGirl said:
Oh...and as long as I'm in here, I have a comment about Grey 17 is Missing.

It's really too bad they named it that, because that brings emphasis to the not-so-great A plot

Here's a fun game: what would you name the episode????

"Ceremonies of Light and Dark" - taken
"Interludes and Examinations" - taken

"The One Who Is" - not biblical enough



A Walk Through Dark Places - "A Race Through Dark Places" + We walk in the dark places no others will enter...
and Garibaldi certainly took a walk on the creepy side.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^ Great question!

I've not given it much thought (or *any* thought, actually, until this moment)...but I would have definitely made the title center around the Delenn/Neroon/Marcus storyline.

"We Live For the One. We Die For the One." is more than a bit too obvious...but I would want it to somehow center on the Rangers....and their willingness to die for Delenn. Because really - that is what the whole point of this episode was - to show the Rangers commitment...NOT to the Minbari necessarily...but to The One.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
EDIT: "The next time... the next time you want a revelation, could you possibly find a way that isn't quite so... uncomfortable?"

Ah! Thanks!

What a great line!

Have I mentioned how much I love Marcus Cole????

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

PKTrekGirl said:
Have I mentioned how much I love Marcus Cole????

Have I mentioned meeting him a couple of times at conventions, or the picture he took with my then 8 yr old daughter sitting up on his shoulder?

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

PKTrekGirl said:
"We Live For the One. We Die For the One."

how about:

A Walk Across the Rubicon


(Marcus: we stand on the bridge + Lennier: once it is done, it cannot be undone)

 

[Jan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Mal said:

PKTrekGirl said:
Oh...and as long as I'm in here, I have a comment about Grey 17 is Missing.

It's really too bad they named it that, because that brings emphasis to the not-so-great A plot

Here's a fun game: what would you name the episode????

"Ceremonies of Light and Dark" - taken
"Interludes and Examinations" - taken

"The One Who Is" - not biblical enough

A Walk Through Dark Places - "A Race Through Dark Places" + We walk in the dark places no others will enter...
and Garibaldi certainly took a walk on the creepy side.

How about naming it after the Minbari fight-to-the-death ritual? I'm not sure of the spelling...Den'Sha, maybe? Nicely ambiguous as B5 titles often are.

Jan

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Jan said:

How about naming it after the Minbari fight-to-the-death ritual? I'm not sure of the spelling...Den'Sha, maybe? Nicely ambiguous as B5 titles often are.

Jan

i was tempted to name it "Entilzah" but then i realized that none of the B5 episode titles have other-than-human names (and except for sic transit vir, they are all english too)

a few have imaginary proper nouns (Z'ha'dum and The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari), but as for alien words... nada.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Neroon said:

PKTrekGirl said:
Have I mentioned how much I love Marcus Cole????

Have I mentioned meeting him a couple of times at conventions, or the picture he took with my then 8 yr old daughter sitting up on his shoulder?

Oh wow! I'd love to see that photo, if you have it available!

I must admit that I don't know that much about Jason Carter, other than he's WAY cute.

I was really speaking more about the character of Marcus. I have always loved that character...or maybe the way Jason played him? I don't know if they can be separated.

Committed to the cause...yet with a great sense of humor. And all overlayed with that cool Minbari outlook. I always loved that he was a human, but had really adopted that whole Minbari outlook. The Minbari were my favorite race on B5...and I always loved Marcus Cole because he was a human who was well on the way to 'getting it'.

I just thought he was a great character.

What is Jason like IRL?

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"Atonement"

This is a really great episode. We learn what we've only had snippets and pieces of before. Delenn and Dukhat's first meaning. The triluminaries originated from Epsilon 3, which makes sense, since they had to have been invented somewhere. The origin of Delenn's "look up" advice she gave to Lennier. And Valen had children that mixed with Minbari DNA. Who was his wife? Was it Catherine Sakai, or another? I really need to read that Sinclair/Sakai/Marcus novel.

Really, the only things I don't like about this episode are the fact that it complicates continuity with Thirdspace (Zack might be getting his uniform re-fitted in this episode, but it sure doesn't come off like that) and that it has Robin Atkin Downs in it, whose over the top performance probably works, but since it immediatly reminds me of Byron, it doesn't.

Grade: A

 

[Jan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

PKTrekGirl said:
What is Jason like IRL?

Sweet as can be and crazy to boot. I've seen him at several conventions, a few of them doing an acting class with Rick Biggs. He'll talk to anybody about anything and he's got more energy than any three people should have.

My fondest memory was at Dragon*Con a few years ago. A friend and I were throwing a 'shadow' B5 track since we were dissatisfied with the amount of B5 programming and one of our things was to hold a 'Diplomatic Reception' (well, okay...we took over a portion of one of the hotel bars). Jason, Peter Jurasik and Peter Woodward were the guests that had arrived so far (Stephen Furst arrived the next day as I recall) and all of them came by for a while. At the time I was also doing some fundraising for Rick Bigg's family and they all contributed autographs and photos, too for me to auction on Ebay. Jason, though...Jason stayed all evening and it was loads of fun. You'd have thought that he was the host the way he made sure to pay attention to everybody who came by. A wonderful time was had by all.

I saw him again about 6 months after that at the Rick Biggs Memorial 'convention'. MANY of the B5 cast and quite a few other actors from other shows that Rick had worked on came by that day to remember Rick and help raise money for Rick's little boys. I was helping out a little and made sure that Jason didn't forget his photos, his sharpies and his head. During an auction of memorabilia he would run around the room with items and encourage bids. He and Rick were really close friends and Rick's death hurt him badly.

Oh, and he writes poetry. If you ever have a chance to hear it, it's a hoot.

Nice, nice man.

Jan

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:

"And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place"

No hiding place down here! There’s no hiding place down here. You know I went to the rock to hide my face, but the rock cried out: no hiding place. There’s no hiding place down here. You know the sinners gonna be running at the knowledge of their fate. They gonna run to the rocks in the mountains, but their prayers will be to late. You know they forgot about Jesus, not knowing was near, but they will running, trying to find a hiding place, when it comes their time to die. No hiding place on the mountain, no hiding place in the waters, no hiding down here, no hiding place. I went to the rock to hide my face, but the rock cried out: no hiding place. There’s no hiding place down here. You know, when the wall catch on fire, there’ll be no hiding place. When the waters start boiling, there’ll be no hiding place. Can’t you see old gambler running say: Lord save my soul! Saying: Lord, Lord have mercy, want you save my soul. Saying: Lord, Lord have mercy, want you save my soul. No hiding place down here, no hiding place. There’s no hiding place down here. I went to the rock to hide my face, but the rock cried out no hiding place. There’s no hiding place down here.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

PKTrekGirl said:
Oh wow! I'd love to see that photo, if you have it available!

ASk and ye shall receive....



I must admit that I don't know that much about Jason Carter, other than he's WAY cute.

What is Jason like IRL?

I can back up what Jan has said... but I also have to say that the first time I met him was a few years before the story that Jan just related. To put it simply... I believe that Jason had some problems, the details of which I really don't want to get into because I know I will not tell it right. However, he was still manically active and entertaining. Spent time with each and every person in line for an autograph. Told the most hilarious stories... and even gave me a free autographed pic and action figure just for being his liaison at the con.

However, by the time you see him in the picture above - which was still before Jan's story, Jason seemed to have cleaned up beautifully.... and yet had lost none of his fan-centric nature. In fact, just before he took that picture, my daughter had told him how much she had loved the scene in "Voices of Authority" about "the Vorlon god Boojee". Quick as a whip, Jason replied, "Fine I'll go get a bucket". Needless to say, my daughter was in paroxysms of girlish giggles.

When I asked about taking the picture, he ran around the front of the table and someone at another table brought over a chair, presumably for Jason to sit on while my daughter stood beside him. Jason would have none of that and said, "no, wait... let's do it like this". He just picker her up and set her on his shoulder.... and that memory will last with my daughter and myself forever.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Jan said:

PKTrekGirl said:
What is Jason like IRL?

Sweet as can be and crazy to boot. I've seen him at several conventions, a few of them doing an acting class with Rick Biggs. He'll talk to anybody about anything and he's got more energy than any three people should have.

My fondest memory was at Dragon*Con a few years ago. A friend and I were throwing a 'shadow' B5 track since we were dissatisfied with the amount of B5 programming and one of our things was to hold a 'Diplomatic Reception' (well, okay...we took over a portion of one of the hotel bars). Jason, Peter Jurasik and Peter Woodward were the guests that had arrived so far (Stephen Furst arrived the next day as I recall) and all of them came by for a while. At the time I was also doing some fundraising for Rick Bigg's family and they all contributed autographs and photos, too for me to auction on Ebay. Jason, though...Jason stayed all evening and it was loads of fun. You'd have thought that he was the host the way he made sure to pay attention to everybody who came by. A wonderful time was had by all.

I saw him again about 6 months after that at the Rick Biggs Memorial 'convention'. MANY of the B5 cast and quite a few other actors from other shows that Rick had worked on came by that day to remember Rick and help raise money for Rick's little boys. I was helping out a little and made sure that Jason didn't forget his photos, his sharpies and his head. During an auction of memorabilia he would run around the room with items and encourage bids. He and Rick were really close friends and Rick's death hurt him badly.

Oh, and he writes poetry. If you ever have a chance to hear it, it's a hoot.

Nice, nice man.

Jan

You know, this is wonderful to hear. I always hate it when you love a character, and the actor who plays him turns out to be a jerk. I'm very glad Jason Carter is not a jerk. Now all you need to do is tell me that Mira Furlan and Bruce Boxleitner are not jerks, and my fangirlhood will be complete, because those (plus Peter Jurasik, who is mentioned below) are my favorite B5 actors still living.

I have only been to three scifi conventions total in my life...but the results are a bit mixed:

- One for only a couple of hours...but at that one I got to meet Peter Jurasik...who, when I told him that Londo is my favorite character in all of scifi (which is true) was ready to adopt me and write me into his will. Peter is the only B5 actor I've met IRL...but if I never met another one, I'd be grateful to have met him - he was wonderful.

- One - a Buffy Convention, where David Boreanaz was nicer than all of the other actors combined...even though he was the biggest star there.

- One - the Vegas Trek Convention, where a few of the actors were disappointments (James Darren, William Shatner, and some of the TNG actors in particular)...but where my particular high point was meeting Avery Brooks, who was VERY, VERY nice. Avery Brooks was so nice, in fact, that that experience canceled out the disappointments of some of the others. Oh...and Kate Mulgrew, who was also very nice, helped as well.

I guess I've been lucky because all of my favorites have turned out nice. But some of the actors at scifi cons are not so nice. Shatner, for example, was kind of an idiot at the Vegas con, and if I never see him again, it will be fine with me.

I'd like to meet more B5 actors...and I'm embarassed to say that I really have no excuse, because I live in Atlanta...and have never been to Dragon*Con.

I just don't have anyone to go with, and I hate going to stuff like that alone.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Neroon said:

PKTrekGirl said:
Oh wow! I'd love to see that photo, if you have it available!

ASk and ye shall receive....



I must admit that I don't know that much about Jason Carter, other than he's WAY cute.

What is Jason like IRL?

I can back up what Jan has said... but I also have to say that the first time I met him was a few years before the story that Jan just related. To put it simply... I believe that Jason had some problems, the details of which I really don't want to get into because I know I will not tell it right. However, he was still manically active and entertaining. Spent time with each and every person in line for an autograph. Told the most hilarious stories... and even gave me a free autographed pic and action figure just for being his liaison at the con.

However, by the time you see him in the picture above - which was still before Jan's story, Jason seemed to have cleaned up beautifully.... and yet had lost none of his fan-centric nature. In fact, just before he took that picture, my daughter had told him how much she had loved the scene in "Voices of Authority" about "the Vorlon god Boojee". Quick as a whip, Jason replied, "Fine I'll go get a bucket". Needless to say, my daughter was in paroxysms of girlish giggles.

When I asked about taking the picture, he ran around the front of the table and someone at another table brought over a chair, presumably for Jason to sit on while my daughter stood beside him. Jason would have none of that and said, "no, wait... let's do it like this". He just picker her up and set her on his shoulder.... and that memory will last with my daughter and myself forever.

Another wonderful story...and picture!!! How utterly COOL!

I'm so glad you AND your daughter have this wonderful memory to share.

You know...now that you mention it, I believe I heard one time that Jason was, at one time, more than a bit of a partier.

I don't hold that against him in the slightest, however, as that description could once have fit ME just as easily.

Anyway, good to know that he has always been so upbeat with the fans, and eager to spend time with people. And that if he ever did have a 'problem'...it is now apparently behind him.

Thanks for posting this....I am really very pleased that I got such a positive response about him...because I really do love that character. I was pretty bummed out when...well...I won't say cus of spoilers...but you know what I mean.

I sure would like to meet him some day. That would be fabulous!

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

PKTrekGirl said:
I'd like to meet more B5 actors...and I'm embarassed to say that I really have no excuse, because I live in Atlanta...and have never been to Dragon*Con.

I just don't have anyone to go with, and I hate going to stuff like that alone.

Well, I am tentatively planning to go back to Dragon Con in 2008, so put it on your calendar right now. No, not tomorrow... I said put it on the calendar now! You can hang with me and Sakrysta for the weekend.

As far as B5 guest for this year, Claudia Christian is at Dragon Con this year, btw. The guest list is evolving so more could be added in the coming weeks - Link

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
"Shadow Dancing"

Franklin looks pretty bad in this episode, but unlike in "Walkabout," his B-Plot works, and helps to break up the chaos of the A-Plot with the Shadow's battle against the Forces of Light. Speaking of which, that battle is pretty incredible, and finally thrusts our characters into the middle of the Shadow War that has been spoken of and seen in glimpses throughout the whole season. And the final moment is a surprise, to say the least.

Grade: A

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz boring!

franklin meets himself and doesn't like what he sees. that makes two of us.

some of the stuff is just plain stupid. like when delenn takes sheridan into the gray-council-ish room, and he wants to know how the hell he'll be able to monitor the situation and give orders - she tells him to just wait and see WTF! on the eve of their biggest battle so far, don'cha think he might want to get used to the controls, and comfortable with the monitors.

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Me thinks you're trying a little too hard to show a contrary opinion here. This is completely alien technology to Sheridan, so I can see where he might want to get used to it... hence his wondering how he will monitor the battle. However, Delenn's "wait and see" can easily be translated as "don't try to understand how it all works right now. Just let the system work".

And Franklin's plot? Call it boring if you like but it seemed to me to be a good examination of his character. This was a defining moment for him, so it's only right to spend some time looking a bit deeper into his psyche... and using himself provided a nice change-of-pace perspective.

 

[Jan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Mal said:
some of the stuff is just plain stupid. like when delenn takes sheridan into the gray-council-ish room, and he wants to know how the hell he'll be able to monitor the situation and give orders - she tells him to just wait and see WTF! on the eve of their biggest battle so far, don'cha think he might want to get used to the controls, and comfortable with the monitors.

Maybe. On the other hand he didn't hesitate to take control of the White Star without knowing many of the specs. He relied on Delenn or Lennier or Marcus to take care of the technical details and learned on the fly as he needed something.

PKTrekGirl said:Now all you need to do is tell me that Mira Furlan and Bruce Boxleitner are not jerks, and my fangirlhood will be complete, because those (plus Peter Jurasik, who is mentioned below) are my favorite B5 actors still living.

Mira Furlan - reserved but opens up in time. Nice lady.
Bruce Boxleitner - very nice man who cares about people.
Peter Jurasik - *lovely* man.
Pat Tallman - sweet and generous
Jerry Doyle - not my favorite at all
Walter Koenig - very reserved

Most of the rest I've seen at cons but never got much of an impression of what they're really like.

As for going to cons alone, I say give it a try. I do it all the time and while I've never come away with any new best friends, I've had many a fun conversation with people in line, sitting around me, at a nearby lunch table, etc..

Jan

 

[Neroon]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Jan and PK.... you both are coming to Marcon sometime. Got it?