Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Continuing Arc
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Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
"A Day in the Strife"
Londo is increasingly isolated. He even sends Vir away to Minbar. Stephen is under increasing pressure. He's turning to stims to stay alert. And an alien probe is sent to Babylon 5, demanding the answer to hundreds of questions. A lot of this episode is setting up the plot for later episodes, so not a whole lot of excitment yet. And the alien probe is just kind of there in this episode. Is it ever followed up upon, or is it just another plot device to get the many other threads in this episode moving?
Grade: A-
"Passing Through Gethsemane"
It's nice to know Brother Theo and his monks haven't been quickly forgotten after serving their place in the plot. Brad Dourif's character is fascinating, though I wish JMS didn't telegraph things to the audience so early with the ISN report about mind wipes that Garibaldi watches. My biggest gripe is that the main characters just don't have much to do in this episode. It's all about Lyta (at this point a guest star) and Brother Edward (also a guest star). The ending is absolutely creepy, though. Also, some rather shocking foreshadowing about Valen and "War Without End" by Delenn in a piece of seeming innocent conversation. Got to love things like that.
Grade: A-
"A Day in the Strife"
Londo is increasingly isolated. He even sends Vir away to Minbar. Stephen is under increasing pressure. He's turning to stims to stay alert. And an alien probe is sent to Babylon 5, demanding the answer to hundreds of questions. A lot of this episode is setting up the plot for later episodes, so not a whole lot of excitment yet. And the alien probe is just kind of there in this episode. Is it ever followed up upon, or is it just another plot device to get the many other threads in this episode moving?
Grade: A-
"Passing Through Gethsemane"
It's nice to know Brother Theo and his monks haven't been quickly forgotten after serving their place in the plot. Brad Dourif's character is fascinating, though I wish JMS didn't telegraph things to the audience so early with the ISN report about mind wipes that Garibaldi watches. My biggest gripe is that the main characters just don't have much to do in this episode. It's all about Lyta (at this point a guest star) and Brother Edward (also a guest star). The ending is absolutely creepy, though. Also, some rather shocking foreshadowing about Valen and "War Without End" by Delenn in a piece of seeming innocent conversation. Got to love things like that.
Grade: A-
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
still good, though, the episode doesn't work nearly as well on repeat viewings as on the first way through - which is odd considering B5 gets better every time i watch it, and this episode is a great way to get people hooked on the show...
my favorite part of this episode is really what happens with Zach - the way the nightwatch subtly and effectly brings him over to the dark side. knowing where this leads in season 3 ("you did the right thing") just makes it all the better.
i also love the speech sheridan is never able to give, because as with everything else, it's the thought that counts
it was the end of the earth year 2259, and the war was upon us...
still good, though, the episode doesn't work nearly as well on repeat viewings as on the first way through - which is odd considering B5 gets better every time i watch it, and this episode is a great way to get people hooked on the show...
my favorite part of this episode is really what happens with Zach - the way the nightwatch subtly and effectly brings him over to the dark side. knowing where this leads in season 3 ("you did the right thing") just makes it all the better.
i also love the speech sheridan is never able to give, because as with everything else, it's the thought that counts
it was the end of the earth year 2259, and the war was upon us...
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
i love the line when endowie has heard londo's dream, and asks "is that all"
to which londo replies: it is enough
(OTOH, it may just be that i love anything that londo says...)
I finally understood the Shadow grudge against the Narns - they know (via the book of g'quan) about the Shadows and their history. that's why the Narn had to be destroyed. brilliant!!!
marcus blows. only person who blows more in Lennier. his line about the temple being more quiet is lame.
the G'kar and Londo stuck-in-an-elevator scene is what really truely elevates this episode. i remembered that i liked it, but i forgot just how laugh-out-loud funny the scene is. usually JMS sucks at humor - so it's the two actors i give credit to here.
"Can anyone hear me????"
"I hear you"
use of music is very interesting in this episode.
when sheridan is ordering groups of 10 or bigger broken up, and people to remain in their quarters, and other "martial law" like measures - they use the same ding-ding type music that they use whenever Clark or Nightwatch or other facsist are acting. i love the consistancy in the message that the music provides.
and of course brother Theo is another welcome addition to the station... setting up for one of my B5 favorites: Passing Through Gethsemane
i love the line when endowie has heard londo's dream, and asks "is that all"
to which londo replies: it is enough
(OTOH, it may just be that i love anything that londo says...)
I finally understood the Shadow grudge against the Narns - they know (via the book of g'quan) about the Shadows and their history. that's why the Narn had to be destroyed. brilliant!!!
marcus blows. only person who blows more in Lennier. his line about the temple being more quiet is lame.
the G'kar and Londo stuck-in-an-elevator scene is what really truely elevates this episode. i remembered that i liked it, but i forgot just how laugh-out-loud funny the scene is. usually JMS sucks at humor - so it's the two actors i give credit to here.
"Can anyone hear me????"
"I hear you"
use of music is very interesting in this episode.
when sheridan is ordering groups of 10 or bigger broken up, and people to remain in their quarters, and other "martial law" like measures - they use the same ding-ding type music that they use whenever Clark or Nightwatch or other facsist are acting. i love the consistancy in the message that the music provides.
and of course brother Theo is another welcome addition to the station... setting up for one of my B5 favorites: Passing Through Gethsemane
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
"Voices of Authority"
This episode was pretty good, except for the beginning, where everyone seems to have something to say about The First Ones. It doesn't really make sense to me. I mean, they don't know ANYTHING about the first ones. It's nice to see Drall again, even if it's the last time. I hadn't remembered this episode when I first saw season four. Now the beginning arc with Lorien and the First Ones makes more sense.
Grade: A-
"Dust to Dust"
It's always nice to see Bester again, as delightfully evil as he is. And G'Kar has some wonderful moments here when he attacks Londo. His experience under the influence of dust reminds me of "The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari" from season 5--only, I think this episode was better.
Grade: A-
"Exogenesis"
This doesn't really have much to do with the main plot (which Dr. Franklin is always getting excluded, or at least, not having a large role with), but at least it's entertaining. It's nice to get our first real look at Marcus, though the way Duncan is introduced it's like we should already have met him or he should have a stronger relationship with Marcus. I don't know--his character just doesn't sit as well as it should. On the plus side, Corwin is promoted, but he can't be trusted yet. And the beginnings of the Ivanova-Marcus ship are brewing. Hilarity ensues.
Grade: B+
"Voices of Authority"
This episode was pretty good, except for the beginning, where everyone seems to have something to say about The First Ones. It doesn't really make sense to me. I mean, they don't know ANYTHING about the first ones. It's nice to see Drall again, even if it's the last time. I hadn't remembered this episode when I first saw season four. Now the beginning arc with Lorien and the First Ones makes more sense.
Grade: A-
"Dust to Dust"
It's always nice to see Bester again, as delightfully evil as he is. And G'Kar has some wonderful moments here when he attacks Londo. His experience under the influence of dust reminds me of "The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari" from season 5--only, I think this episode was better.
Grade: A-
"Exogenesis"
This doesn't really have much to do with the main plot (which Dr. Franklin is always getting excluded, or at least, not having a large role with), but at least it's entertaining. It's nice to get our first real look at Marcus, though the way Duncan is introduced it's like we should already have met him or he should have a stronger relationship with Marcus. I don't know--his character just doesn't sit as well as it should. On the plus side, Corwin is promoted, but he can't be trusted yet. And the beginnings of the Ivanova-Marcus ship are brewing. Hilarity ensues.
Grade: B+
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
i skipped it this time around - no point. sure there is a great scene with delenn and londo - but what scene with londo is not great?!?!? there should be some Phantom-Edit of B5 with just the good stuff. sadly, you have to skip a whole episode rather than just the parts of it that are good. these 45 minutes could easily become 15. but alas, there is no such edit...
still one of my B5 favs - probably because someone gets tortured
and it still brings a tear to my eye when i watch brother theo forgive brother edward
Through the mystery of our redemption. May almighty God release you from all punishments in this life and in the life to come. May he open to you the gates of paradise and welcome you to ever lasting joy. Father, look with compassion on your servant Brother Edward, who has trusted in your promises. Welcome him to your kingdom in peace. By the authority the Apostolic See has given me, I grant you a full pardon and remission of all your sins. In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.
did anyone notice - they use the same christmas gregorian chant when the families come for edward as in the Kosh/Sheridan "beauty in the dark" scene in There All the Honor Lies?!?! these are the kinds of things you pick up on the 6th watch through
(i bought the song on iTunes)
i skipped it this time around - no point. sure there is a great scene with delenn and londo - but what scene with londo is not great?!?!? there should be some Phantom-Edit of B5 with just the good stuff. sadly, you have to skip a whole episode rather than just the parts of it that are good. these 45 minutes could easily become 15. but alas, there is no such edit...
still one of my B5 favs - probably because someone gets tortured
and it still brings a tear to my eye when i watch brother theo forgive brother edward
Through the mystery of our redemption. May almighty God release you from all punishments in this life and in the life to come. May he open to you the gates of paradise and welcome you to ever lasting joy. Father, look with compassion on your servant Brother Edward, who has trusted in your promises. Welcome him to your kingdom in peace. By the authority the Apostolic See has given me, I grant you a full pardon and remission of all your sins. In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.
did anyone notice - they use the same christmas gregorian chant when the families come for edward as in the Kosh/Sheridan "beauty in the dark" scene in There All the Honor Lies?!?! these are the kinds of things you pick up on the 6th watch through
(i bought the song on iTunes)
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
"Messages from Earth" / "Point of No Return" / "Severed Dreams"
Probably three of the greatest episodes Babylon 5 has ever done in a row, I can't speak enough praise of these episodes. I can't say everything that's right on the money, so rather than possibly miss something, I'll just say this.
Grade: A+ (This is why season three is my favorite of B5. Simply incredible).
"Messages from Earth" / "Point of No Return" / "Severed Dreams"
Probably three of the greatest episodes Babylon 5 has ever done in a row, I can't speak enough praise of these episodes. I can't say everything that's right on the money, so rather than possibly miss something, I'll just say this.
Grade: A+ (This is why season three is my favorite of B5. Simply incredible).
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
I missed it, but my friend Andrew, who has been seeing B5 for the first time with me, picked up on it right away. A good choice on JMS' part.
Also, Andrew's reaction to the Chruchill ramming the other Earth ship, and the Minbari ships appearance at the end of "Severed Dreams" was one word that sums up the episode rather well. "Sweet."
Mal said:
did anyone notice - they use the same christmas gregorian chant when the families come for edward as in the Kosh/Sheridan "beauty in the dark" scene in There All the Honor Lies?!?! these are the kinds of things you pick up on the 6th watch through
(i bought the song on iTunes)
I missed it, but my friend Andrew, who has been seeing B5 for the first time with me, picked up on it right away. A good choice on JMS' part.
Also, Andrew's reaction to the Chruchill ramming the other Earth ship, and the Minbari ships appearance at the end of "Severed Dreams" was one word that sums up the episode rather well. "Sweet."
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
There are many other triplets to consider, but it's my contention that is the finest stretch of 3 episodes in the entire series, a set that compares favorably with any three of any series. In it you have drama of the highest form, surprise (gotta love fooling the audience like that in "Point of No Return") and the very essence of the show to begin with: we all have choices to make and must face the consequences of said choices.
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
"Ceremonies of Light and Dark"
I think any episode coming off the end of "Severed Dreams" would be a disappointment, so no surprise that I didn't like this one as much. What did surprise me is how good it was, except for the hostage plot, which just doesn't work for me. The hostage takers are cliched and have never been seen before but of course Garibaldi knows them well. But everything else works very well--just the hostage plot that brings it down.
Grade: B+
"A Late Delivery from Avalon"
Thankfully I watched this episode in the correct order--it doesn't make any sense after the next episode. I think it's biggest weakness is that it isn't about any of our main characters--it's about the character of "Arthur." This would be fine if we saw him again, but this is a one-off, so it's not as good as it could be. That being said, Mike Vejar does a great job directing this episode, "Arthur's" visions are very well done. G'Kar has some fantastic moments in this episode, as does Marcus. And it looks great, as all of season three really does.
"Sic Transit Vir"
I didn't expect much from this episode, but I was pleasantly surprised to find this mostly humorous hour to be one of my favorites of the season, and the series. The dramatic moments actually work the least well in this episode, because I'm so invested in the comedic emotions that the dramatic parts are a, pardon the vocabulary problems, dramatic shift in tone.
Grade: A
"Ceremonies of Light and Dark"
I think any episode coming off the end of "Severed Dreams" would be a disappointment, so no surprise that I didn't like this one as much. What did surprise me is how good it was, except for the hostage plot, which just doesn't work for me. The hostage takers are cliched and have never been seen before but of course Garibaldi knows them well. But everything else works very well--just the hostage plot that brings it down.
Grade: B+
"A Late Delivery from Avalon"
Thankfully I watched this episode in the correct order--it doesn't make any sense after the next episode. I think it's biggest weakness is that it isn't about any of our main characters--it's about the character of "Arthur." This would be fine if we saw him again, but this is a one-off, so it's not as good as it could be. That being said, Mike Vejar does a great job directing this episode, "Arthur's" visions are very well done. G'Kar has some fantastic moments in this episode, as does Marcus. And it looks great, as all of season three really does.
"Sic Transit Vir"
I didn't expect much from this episode, but I was pleasantly surprised to find this mostly humorous hour to be one of my favorites of the season, and the series. The dramatic moments actually work the least well in this episode, because I'm so invested in the comedic emotions that the dramatic parts are a, pardon the vocabulary problems, dramatic shift in tone.
Grade: A
I have to admit it's really nice of the Deep Space Nine people to let Babylon 5 fans have some of their space on this bulletin board. Aren't Trekkies just the most generous people in the galaxy? 
Why do you think we let PKTrekGirl be a mod in the first place?Captain Randy Hall said:
I have to admit it's really nice of the Deep Space Nine people to let Babylon 5 fans have some of their space on this bulletin board. Aren't Trekkies just the most generous people in the galaxy?
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
Yes, these 3 episodes just fit well together like a string of chapters in a novel. As much as I loved the Pegasus arc in nuBSG, I much prefer these episodes because JMS had the Earth ships fire on one another and eventually dealt with the long-term consquences of that decision.
My biggest disappointment wiht the Pegasus arc was just as the Colonial Forces were going to fire, Starbuck pops up and a cease fire ensues. But RDM did state that he knew that if they did fire on one another their would be consquences that they (writers) weren't prepared to deal with in their storyline.
But there's always the Point of No Return arc in B5! Oh and "Passing..." is my favorite stand-alone of B5.
Yes, these 3 episodes just fit well together like a string of chapters in a novel. As much as I loved the Pegasus arc in nuBSG, I much prefer these episodes because JMS had the Earth ships fire on one another and eventually dealt with the long-term consquences of that decision.
My biggest disappointment wiht the Pegasus arc was just as the Colonial Forces were going to fire, Starbuck pops up and a cease fire ensues. But RDM did state that he knew that if they did fire on one another their would be consquences that they (writers) weren't prepared to deal with in their storyline.
But there's always the Point of No Return arc in B5! Oh and "Passing..." is my favorite stand-alone of B5.
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
"Ship of Tears"
Bester finally shifts from being a 2-D villian to something much more complex in this episode, and the B5 legacy is much better for it. It's a shame the storyline of his lover is never really revisited, besides some passing references up to "Rising Star."
Grade: A-
"Interludes and Examinations"
Sheridan's confrontation with Kosh is one of the finest moments in the series. Kosh's death is surprisingly emotional a moment. And Mr. Morden's manipulations of Londo make me pissed every time I see them.
Grade: A
"Walkabout"
Dr. Franklin has always been a character that JMS never had a handle on, IMO. He always gets stuck with subplots, usually involving women we'll never hear from again, only appearing as part of the main story when we need either a doctor or someone to with a conscience to speak up. His plot in this episode, unfortunately, is more of the same. There's a few moments of brilliance, but mostly, it's something that I just don't care about. The other story, involving Sheridan and all the rest attacking the Shadows, is brilliant. Should have ditched the Franklin story if it couldn't have been written better.
Grade: B- (Franklin plot: D, Shadows plot: A)
"Ship of Tears"
Bester finally shifts from being a 2-D villian to something much more complex in this episode, and the B5 legacy is much better for it. It's a shame the storyline of his lover is never really revisited, besides some passing references up to "Rising Star."
Grade: A-
"Interludes and Examinations"
Sheridan's confrontation with Kosh is one of the finest moments in the series. Kosh's death is surprisingly emotional a moment. And Mr. Morden's manipulations of Londo make me pissed every time I see them.
Grade: A
"Walkabout"
Dr. Franklin has always been a character that JMS never had a handle on, IMO. He always gets stuck with subplots, usually involving women we'll never hear from again, only appearing as part of the main story when we need either a doctor or someone to with a conscience to speak up. His plot in this episode, unfortunately, is more of the same. There's a few moments of brilliance, but mostly, it's something that I just don't care about. The other story, involving Sheridan and all the rest attacking the Shadows, is brilliant. Should have ditched the Franklin story if it couldn't have been written better.
Grade: B- (Franklin plot: D, Shadows plot: A)
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
"War Without End"
Finally Sinclair's destiny is revealed, in two of the most satisfying hours of Babylon 5. If I have any complaints, it is the sheer amount of exposition that is crammed into the first part, slowing things down.
Grade: A- (Part One); A (Part Two)
"Grey 17 is Missing"
I've heard this refered to as the worst episode of Babylon 5 in polite company, and quite frankly, I just don't see it. The only part of the episode that doesn't work for me is the cult that Garibaldi discovers, and even the absurdity of that works out in the end when Garibaldi meets Sheridan. Additionally, the Minbari story is very well done, and follows up on the events of the previous two episodes very well.
Grade: B+
"And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place"
This episode has one of the most satisfying moments in Babylon 5: Refa being beaten to death by Narns to gospel music. Twisted, yes. Over the top, yes. Perfect, yes.
Grade: A
"War Without End"
Finally Sinclair's destiny is revealed, in two of the most satisfying hours of Babylon 5. If I have any complaints, it is the sheer amount of exposition that is crammed into the first part, slowing things down.
Grade: A- (Part One); A (Part Two)
"Grey 17 is Missing"
I've heard this refered to as the worst episode of Babylon 5 in polite company, and quite frankly, I just don't see it. The only part of the episode that doesn't work for me is the cult that Garibaldi discovers, and even the absurdity of that works out in the end when Garibaldi meets Sheridan. Additionally, the Minbari story is very well done, and follows up on the events of the previous two episodes very well.
Grade: B+
"And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place"
This episode has one of the most satisfying moments in Babylon 5: Refa being beaten to death by Narns to gospel music. Twisted, yes. Over the top, yes. Perfect, yes.
Grade: A
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
), but the Grey 17 elements are absolute crap and are about the worst things in the series. There's really only one element of B5 I dislike more, in fact:
This is what I had to say about "Grey 17" in my review of it in the first B5 thread in this forum. The episode has its moments (Neroon growing a brain, for example
), but the Grey 17 elements are absolute crap and are about the worst things in the series. There's really only one element of B5 I dislike more, in fact:Boredom. Err, Fabyron. Err, Byron. 
Ruins the first part of season 5.
Ruins the first part of season 5.
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
jms himself admits to being rather off the mark (understatement there, eh?) with the a-plot of "Grey 17". HOwever, in my estimation the b-plot involving Neroon, Delenn and Marcus is very strong. Enough so that it keep this episode considerably above the "worst" category. Yes the bits with the Freddy Kreuger and the Cultists are almost laughably bad.... but the ep as a while is still better than say "TKO" or "Secrets of the Soul".
And btw... Neroon always had a brain. He just had to grow a heart.
jms himself admits to being rather off the mark (understatement there, eh?) with the a-plot of "Grey 17". HOwever, in my estimation the b-plot involving Neroon, Delenn and Marcus is very strong. Enough so that it keep this episode considerably above the "worst" category. Yes the bits with the Freddy Kreuger and the Cultists are almost laughably bad.... but the ep as a while is still better than say "TKO" or "Secrets of the Soul".
And btw... Neroon always had a brain. He just had to grow a heart.
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin
I still get a chill at the final scene:
I still get a chill at the final scene:
"I present this place to you as a gift. I am called Valen and there is much work to be done."
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