Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Continuing Arc

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"GROPOS"
This is a pretty good episode, with a fantastic, chilling ending. General Franklin seems to dislike aliens greatly. I know we don't see him again, but is he ever mentioned again in the series? Did he join Clarke's forces, or was he killed sometime during the Shadow War or the Earth Civil War? Ken Foree is always great in whatever he is in, and he's perfect for his small part as a ground pounder here.

Grade: B+

"All Alone in the Night"
The parts with Sheridan and Hague and the rest of that thread are wonderful, pointing the way towards "Point of No Return" and "Severed Dreams" in season three. The parts with Delen (and everybody's favorite Minbari, Neroon) are great. The parts where Sheridan is abducted is little more than a plot device to get him out of the picture for a while and a retread of something I'd expect from Captain Kirk. And when Sheridan asks why he survived, I couldn't help but chuckle and say, "because you're in the opening credits, stupid."

Grade: B

"Acts of Sacrifice"
The war between the Centauri and the Narns reaches Babylon 5. Sort of. Sheridan and Delen do something to help the Narns. Sort of. And Londo and Garibaldi are friends again. Sort of. Did I like this episode? Sort of. Okay, mostly. Londo is great, G'Kar is great.

Grade: B+

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
"Acts of Sacrifice"
The war between the Centauri and the Narns reaches Babylon 5. Sort of. Sheridan and Delen do something to help the Narns. Sort of. And Londo and Garibaldi are friends again. Sort of. Did I like this episode? Sort of. Okay, mostly. Londo is great, G'Kar is great.

Grade: B+

As an aside, I think this episode also marks the last appearance of Na'toth until "A Tragedy of Telepaths".

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

chrisspringob said:
As an aside, I think this episode also marks the last appearance of Na'toth until "A Tragedy of Telepaths".

what's up with the actress change with na'toth? first season they had this super hottie playing, and then this boring and hell woman? why pretend they were the same person?

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Mal said:

chrisspringob said:
As an aside, I think this episode also marks the last appearance of Na'toth until "A Tragedy of Telepaths".

what's up with the actress change with na'toth? first season they had this super hottie playing, and then this boring and hell woman? why pretend they were the same person?

She couldn't handle the make-up, so they brought in a new actress (which JMS didn't like, and thus he put her in few episodes and (seemingly) killed the character off, off-screen).

 

[Jan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

It was JMS's decision to recast the part as the Na'Toth character had background knowledge needed. From what I read, the actress did well in the audition but made different decisions when it came time to actually play the part which is why she was written out. JMS posted:

From: STRACZYNSKI [Joe]
Subject: Re: Na'Toth...you have to remember...
To: GENIE
Date: 11/10/1994 4:41:00 PM
No Thread


Re: Na'Toth...you have to remember this was not our decision, but rather
Caitlin's, in order to pursue some romantic lead parts. We made an offer
equal to the other cast, but she opted out to pursue films. We cast the best
actor to come in the door to fill Na'Toth's boots, and we need that character
there because of the prior knowledge she needs to have to fill her role in the
story. Mary Kay is, I think, trying to reinterpret the character. We're
nudging in the other direction. One way or another, this will be made to
work.

jms

Jan

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Really? I thought it had to do with make-up. Thanks for clearing up the confusion, Jan, as always. :thumbsup:

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
She couldn't handle the make-up, so they brought in a new actress

here is a picture of the two actresses who played Na'toth, out of makeup

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
You are a bad man, Mal.

Yeah, Caitlin Brown is hot. We even see her in an episode of season two, out of make-up as another character, IIRC.

 

[Jan]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
Really? I thought it had to do with make-up. Thanks for clearing up the confusion, Jan, as always. :thumbsup:

It was the actress who played Ko'Dath who had the major problem with prosthetics. Here's another JMS post:

On the question of Na'Toth...some background.

As y'all may remember, originally we had Mary Woronov slated to be
Ko'Dath, G'Kar's assistant. She had *very* real problems with the idea of
wearing prosthetics, and also wouldn't wear the red contacts. So we went our
separate ways, and Ko'Dath had an unfortunate accident with an airlock.

This happened, however, right between shooting two episodes in which we
*needed* G'Kar's aide present. So our casting director called in Caitlin
Brown on about 24 hours notice, and in fact in her first episode, it's mainly
Ko'Dath's makeup, somewhat modified, rather than the sleeker Na'Toth makeup
you saw later. Slight differences.

If you've seen Caitlin Brown on the "Making Of B5" program, you know she
is a *gorgeous* young woman, who has mainly played romantic leads in films and
TV. She has continued to get offers in that direction, and over the hiatus,
did a film again as a romantic lead with Marlon Brando and (also in the cast)
Faye Dunaway.

And the very real question is, Does she want to hide her face, be known
for playing an alien, and lose the chance to further expand her feature
film/romantic lead career? Her answer, after much agonizing, was no. She'd
never really intended to stay with it forever, was only coming in on an
emergency basis (but we liked her performance so much we kept her in the
role), and she was the *only* actor on whom we didn't have long-term options.


We very much wanted her to come back, and did everything we could to
convince her, but this is what she wants to do. And while this is NOT mutual,
it is amicable; I fully understand why she wants to continue on the process of
becoming a major player. And as she says, she has a very attractive face; why
hide it forever?

This being the case, what we're now doing is recasting the role of
Na'Toth with a different actress. It won't be a different character, since
it's got nothing to do with the story, it's an actor thing. We'll get someone
the same size, shape, voice and personality, write the character exactly the
same, same name, and move on. Which happens all the time.
And, obviously, the prosthetic will be the same, so Na'Toth will still look
the same.

So, this is entirely her decision, and we wish her luck. It doesn't
affect the show or the story, so it doesn't cause us any problems, so why
treat it in anything other than an amicable fashion?

So it appears that she didn't want to act under prosthetics for several years but the prosthetics themselves didn't cause any problems for her.

Jan

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

"Hunter, Prey"
There's finally some real evidence concerning the assasination of the President 9 months ago. To be honest, this episode and the next kind of blended together. It was late.

Grade: B+

"There All the Honor Lies"
We're slowly moving towards the reveal of Kosh here, which is cool, but the plot with Sheridan isn't as exciting as it should be.

Grade: B

"And Now for A Word"
I hate fake documentary episodes with a passion. Access is the worst episode of the West Wing; Final Cut the worst episode of nuBSG. This isn't the worst episode of B5, because surprisingly, it has some strong character moments and some moderately important plot developments. That being said, the format doesn't work for 42 minutes--it becomes a joke, as even seasoned actors overact with it. I can't help but feel the character moments where all left over bits that JMS couldn't squeeze into anything else, so he just put them all here, and the Centauri-Narn conflict just isn't as tense as it should be with this format. There's too much cheese. The PsiCorp commercial is a bit of cheesy fun though--got to love the subliminal message.

Grade: C (Generous)

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
You are a bad man, Mal.

Yeah, Caitlin Brown is hot. We even see her in an episode of season two, out of make-up as another character, IIRC.

Mal, bad. In the Latin.
- River


She was the lawyer they gave Sheridan.

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Yeah, I just realized that. Not really a big part to throw her. I kind of wish they'd have just brought her back for Na'toth for one episode and tied up the character instead of the lawyer, but alas.

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
Yeah, I just realized that. Not really a big part to throw her. I kind of wish they'd have just brought her back for Na'toth for one episode and tied up the character instead of the lawyer, but alas.

Um, that's exactly what they *did* do in "A Tragedy of Telepaths". Or do you mean that you wish they'd brought her back to wrap up the character in Season 2?

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

chrisspringob said:

Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
Yeah, I just realized that. Not really a big part to throw her. I kind of wish they'd have just brought her back for Na'toth for one episode and tied up the character instead of the lawyer, but alas.

Um, that's exactly what they *did* do in "A Tragedy of Telepaths". Or do you mean that you wish they'd brought her back to wrap up the character in Season 2?

I mean season two. Season five was so long after the character last appeared (and even longer since the original actress portrayed her) that it was a "huh? Okay" moment.

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:

chrisspringob said:

Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
Yeah, I just realized that. Not really a big part to throw her. I kind of wish they'd have just brought her back for Na'toth for one episode and tied up the character instead of the lawyer, but alas.

Um, that's exactly what they *did* do in "A Tragedy of Telepaths". Or do you mean that you wish they'd brought her back to wrap up the character in Season 2?

I mean season two. Season five was so long after the character last appeared (and even longer since the original actress portrayed her) that it was a "huh? Okay" moment.

i thought the season 5 thing worked really well - a great way for G'kar and Londo to bond.

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Neroon said:
Although I dont' recall the first menion of there being THREE castes...

i don't know if this was the first mention

but in 2x11 All Alone in the Night, when Delenn is stripped of her Satai title, and her replacement is revealed as Neroon, she's all like WTF dudes?!?! When Valen called the Nine, he chose three from the Worker caste, three warrior, and three religious. I am religious, so my replacement should have been religious. But Neroon is so, like Warrior, and star-rider to boot. NOT FAIR! I want my mommy!

And Neroon was all like, STFU Bitch, and go back to your humans - if you love them so much, why don't you marry them? whore of babylon!

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
That was the first time I recall there being a mention to three castes. In season one, there was always the implicit idea that there were two castes--warriors and religious, at least that was what I took away from it.

 

[chrisspringob]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Mal said:
but in 2x11 All Alone in the Night, when Delenn is stripped of her Satai title, and her replacement is revealed as Neroon, she's all like WTF dudes?!?! When Valen called the Nine, he chose three from the Worker caste, three warrior, and three religious. I am religious, so my replacement should have been religious. But Neroon is so, like Warrior, and star-rider to boot. NOT FAIR! I want my mommy!

And Neroon was all like, STFU Bitch, and go back to your humans - if you love them so much, why don't you marry them? whore of babylon!

That's a great synopsis of the Delenn storyline in "All Alone in the Night". You should write a synopsis like that for every episode.

 

[Mal]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
"Acts of Sacrifice"
The war between the Centauri and the Narns reaches Babylon 5. Sort of. Sheridan and Delen do something to help the Narns. Sort of. And Londo and Garibaldi are friends again. Sort of. Did I like this episode? Sort of. Okay, mostly. Londo is great, G'Kar is great.
Grade: B+

This episode has my favorite line from all of Babylon 5, and of course it is a Londo line:

It is good to have friends, is it not, Mr. Garibaldi? Even if maybe .. only for a little while.

 

[Harvey]

Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"Knives"

This episode wasn't badly made, not by far, but I can't help but feel it was unnecessary. There are strange things happening in Grey Sector. We'll see that, in much greater detail, in "Grey 17 is Missing" (for better or worse). John is affected by the destruction of the Icarus. We've already seen that in "Revelations," and we'll see it explored in much greater detail in the very next episode. Sector 14 is a strange area of space, with inexplainable anomolies. We saw it in "Babylon Squared" and we'll see it again in "War Without End." How does it serve anything to be shown here? Is JMS just subtly reminding us that Babylon 4 hasn't been forgotten? Finally, we see that Londo is being personally affected by the decisions he's made and his alliance with Mr. Morden. Is that really revelatory? We find out that Refa has been doing sinister things behind Londo's back. Is that really surprising? The worst of it is, none of these threads are boring, they're produced very well. It's just that the entire episode has an air of redundancy hanging over it that I have trouble getting over. On the plus side, Carmen Argenziano (Jacob Carter on Stargate) has a nice guest appearance here.

Grade: C

"In the Shadow of Z'ha'Dum"

Now this is more like it. Mr. Morden is given a little background, the shadows and the vorlons have their natures revealed (in part) and the First Ones are first described. The Shadow War is coming. Nightwatch is forming on the station (and Zach is quickly emerging as a strong, new character*). And if Sheridan goes to Z'ha'Dum, he will die. Good stuff.

Grade: A
*Which almost makes me forget how Lou Welch was abandoned as a character. Was the actor not content to stay on B5? Were there scheduling problems? It seems as soon as Zach shows up, Lou disappears. I think his last episode was GROPOS. They've spent some time establishing Lou, and for him to just fade away, seems like a greatly missed opportunity.

"Confessions and Lamentations"

As a rule, I don't like standalone stories on Babylon 5. JMS is good at broad strokes, and standalones tend to emerge as afterthoughts rather than solid stories in their own right. That being said, I think this is an incredible hour of television. It mirrors Believers from season one, I think, only this time, everything was done right. The music is better. The cinematography is better. The acting is MUCH improved, especially with the guest cast. And our main characters aren't forgotten, as this episode marks a major moment of transition in the growing relationship between John and Delen. One of my favorite episodes of Babylon 5, by far.

Grade: A+