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Niners Unite...around Babylon 5! - The Continuing Arc

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Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Mal said:
the whole episode was worth it just to hear Sheridan say:
They did it the wrong way. The inconvenient way.
I forgot all about that, :lol:
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Okay, so it begins...

"No Compromises"

JMS is definitely right when he says that this season is different than previous ones, because it really starts without any momentum.

Byron gets a decent enough introduction. I don't hate him yet as others seem to do, but his arc is young. And I can definitely see how he could come to be annoying.

As for Lochley, I haven't made up my mind yet. I never really cared for Invonava, but it sure seems like it would have been better to have her part of this telepath storyline than Lochley. Oh, well. That's Hollywood.

And does anyone else hate this season's opening? The music just doesn't fit with the Babylon 5 world, and the sound mixing on all the dialogue in the beginning of it is WAY too low. And JMS' name on the back of the station? Tone down the ego methinks.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

And does anyone else hate this season's opening? The music just doesn't fit with the Babylon 5 world, and the sound mixing on all the dialogue in the beginning of it is WAY too low.

I love the fifth season's opening credits, it really lets you know how far the show had gone by that point and I liked seeing all that history compressed into the opening credits. :cool:
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha, from Meditations On The Abyss on, I think you'll like Season 5.

The Corps Is Mother, The Corps Is Father
It was interesting to see the Psi Corps side of the story where Bester is a "good guy". The episode itself was ok, it was purely a standalone episode, and it didn't move the Big Plot Picture forward. But it was still good, and it was a nice look at Bester from his side. By the way, is this the last time we see Bester in the whole saga of Babylon 5 and its related spinoffs? Also, why does Stephen Furst only direct the not typical B5 episodes? Coincidence?

Meditations On The Abyss
Now this is more like it! This is classic Babylon 5 with all of the political intrigue. Lennier is sent on a "training" mission, but it's all a front for a special mission Delenn has sent him on, to get proof of the shipping lane attacks. G'Kar, meanwhile, is still dealing with his new found godhood, and he seems a lot more at ease with it. Is G'Kar now accepting his role as a religious leader? Vir is going to be the new Ambassador to B5, and "has become a man" just in time. Garibaldi, unfortunately, has continued to hit the bottle and his entrenched in a drunken stupor...

Darkness Ascending
Lise Hampton surprises Garibaldi in his quarters. Unfortunately, he's now forced into hiding his growing alcohol problem. Lennier, meanwhile, has determined a way to get proof of the Centauri involvment in the shipping lane attacks, but he must go against his superior officer to get it. This is an excellent episode full of political intrigue, suspense, and deceptions. You really have to feel for Londo. Are Sheridan and Delenn doing the right thing by not letting him in on their discussions? Will this just push him against them in the coming conflict? Speaking of conflict, there's one coming. A war with the Centauri. Nothing like a good war to end Babylon 5.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari"
This episode was okay--I certainly liked it for the Londo/G'Kar interaction-- but it seemed like it wasn't really anything we haven't seen before. Lennier's departure was interesting, although not entirely unexpected given the events that have led up to this point. Hopefully he will return before too long.

"The Paragon of Animals"
Is it just me, or is the story of the Alliance just not as interesting as what we've seen before. By all accounts, this should feel huge, but instead, it feels like season one, when the show was just spinning it's wheels waiting for the big stuff. But there isn't much time left to spin the wheels. The big stuff needs to be here now. I still don't HATE Byron, though I find his hair to be utterly ridiculous, especially considering the Telepath's living conditions.

"A View from the Gallery"
A nice enough standalone, with some great moments of humor, but I have to ask myself why I should care about Bo or Mack, since we've never seen them before, and in all likelihood will never see them again. Couldn't we have given some other secondary characters more screen-time instead, like Corwin perhaps (who at least is in this episode--it's a shame he was missing from so much of season four).

After four episodes, it feels like we really haven't gone anywhere. G'Kar's declaration of principals was a nice touch, but as big events go, that's it. This season still doesn't have any momentum, and the Telepath story-line, while I don't think is bad, hasn't really done ANYTHING except act as a convenient plot device in a couple of episodes.

As for the opening credits, they've grown on me, but I still think the sound mixing is off-- the dialogue just feels distant. And things like the sword in the logo, the ultra-triumphant music (a little premature?), and JMS' previously mentioned credit on the side of the station seem a little over the top to me. *shrugs*
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

There is one episode where his name doesn't appear on the back of the station. Watch for it.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
Well, if I had to field a guess, I'd say it's Sleeping in Light (hard not to hear about that episode 'round these parts). But, who knows, I like surprises.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"Learning Curve"
It seems a bit late to be developing the Rangers--I feel like this episode would have been better suited early on. On the other hand, we get some closure concerning Marcus and a continuation of Lennier's story (though he does not appear). The moment at the end between Sheridan and Delenn is great.

"Strange Relations"
Okay, Byron is really annoying in this episode. His romantic speeches to Lyta (and pretty much every time he talks its another speech) brings out the worst writing that JMS has done in the series. And I just can't buy these telepaths as being poor-- maybe it's their nice clothes, or fancy hair (Byron especially-- even after being beaten up by Bester's lackeys he has shiny hair), but they are anything but poor. The series has never had a problem portraying the poverty and despair of down below before, so this is quite odd. On the other hand, G'Kar and Londo continue to be wonderful together. And the revelation of Lochley's history with Sheridan was handled pretty well, despite how contrived that history is.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
As for the opening credits, they've grown on me, but I still think the sound mixing is off-- the dialogue just feels distant. And things like the sword in the logo, the ultra-triumphant music (a little premature?), and JMS' previously mentioned credit on the side of the station seem a little over the top to me. *shrugs*

I really liked the opening credits for season 3 and 4 so I found S5's ones to be a real disappointment. They seem like somewhat of a mess to me and fail to point to a real theme as was the case with earlier seasons. I think it's probably a reflection of the season itself which just isn't as conceptually strong as, say 3 and 4.
However, the thing that probably bothers me the most is the music. I just think it's really out of place and totally underwhelming compared to what came before.
And yes, the name stamped on the station is weird. It just doesn't seem like a very good idea to me and smacks of quite an ego. Granted, this IS tv so it's not too much of a problem. It's just something I'd never do myself, I think.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
^^
Well, if I had to field a guess, I'd say it's Sleeping in Light (hard not to hear about that episode 'round these parts). But, who knows, I like surprises.
I was thinking of another episode myself. ;)

But I happen to enjoy S5's opening the best of all of them. It gives a nice retrospective of all the story up to that point. And the music in the first half was actually heard before on the compilation CD "Messages From Earth" - which is not a soundtrack from the episode of that name. In any event... the music is different, because the story itself is different. The world is changed.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

"Secrets of the Soul"
Franklin has always been a character with such potential, but they've done a lot of pedestrian things with him, as they do in this episode. It's nice to see him researching for the alliance, but it reminds of SG-1's final two seasons. Mainly that it is something that's just best left to the imagination. The show definitely should have ended with the Earth-Babylon 5 conflict's conclusion, since it seems JMS' doesn't have the balls to give us the Telepath War that everyone says is coming, but never quite materializes. Byron's plot was a bit better, but it seems like every time he gets beat up his hair manages to stay extra-shiny. Did I mention how stupid his hair is? And his dialogue was occasionally fitting, but JMS clearly went overboard with the monologues. Some of them work, and some of them are quite humorous. The Vorlon revelation at the end was interesting, but not all that surprising, actually. It seemed like something that would have been more exciting back when Jack The Ripper appeared working for the Vorlons two or three years ago.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

The show definitely should have ended with the Earth-Babylon 5 conflict's conclusion, since it seems JMS' doesn't have the balls to give us the Telepath War that everyone says is coming, but never quite materializes.

I've never really understood the interest in the Telepath War, it never really interested me any and we know it ended anyway.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
The show definitely should have ended with the Earth-Babylon 5 conflict's conclusion, since it seems JMS' doesn't have the balls to give us the Telepath War that everyone says is coming, but never quite materializes.
What do you mean by "doesn't have the balls" ? If he thought it'd work in a given format, I'm sure he'd like to try it. "Doesn't have the balls" makes it sound like he's afraid to do the story.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
"Strange Relations"
Okay, Byron is really annoying in this episode.

I think that is exactly the same episode when I started to hate him.

And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder
Season 5 just keeps getting better and better! The last 3 episodes have all been excellent, and up to the levels of Seasons 3 and 4. This episode makes me feel so sad for Londo. He redeems himself in Season 4 by standing up to the Shadows and kicking them off his planet, and now it seems the Shadows' minions are determined to repay Londo and all Centauri for their betrayal. And poor Londo is caught in the middle. I don't really agree with the Alliance's decision to leave Londo out of the loop, because if he was in the loop all along, he may have actually seen the truth before going to Centauri Prime. Now it seems he'll be learning the whole truth soon, but at the same time will be fitted with a keeper (which is obviously going to happen sometime before the season ends), so he won't be able to do anything about it. I find it amazing that Londo's closest friend and the only person who fully trusts him, other than Vir, is G'Kar. Fittingly it ends with both of them in a cell, helpless to what is going on around them. Garibaldi's alcoholism is also getting worse as some people, like Zack, are beginning to notice. Plus, arguably starting the war because of his drinking on the job will surely have consequences. Garibaldi is the Miles O'Brien of Babylon 5. How many times is there a "torture Garibaldi" storyline? In Season 4, he was an unwitting agent of the Psi Corps, and here he's an alcoholic. Garibaldi, like every main character in the B5 saga, has gone through a big journey. I'm beginning to wonder where everyone will end up. I'm pretty sure Londo will be on Centauri Prime as Emperor (as is shown in In the Beginning), but what about the others? Vir will probably still be Ambassador, Zack will probably still be Chief of Security, Delenn and Sheridan will go to Minbar, Lochley will probably still be Captain. But I'm not so sure about Garibaldi, Lyta, G'Kar, and Lennier. 6 normal episodes left to find out. I can't wait!

By the way, I said "normal episodes" because before I watch Sleeping In Light, I'll be watching River Of Souls and Legend Of The Rangers. After Sleeping In Light, I'll watch A Call To Arms and Crusade. So I really have 6 B5 episodes, 3 movies, and 13 Crusade episodes remaining.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

That's an odd choice of ordering. What prompted it?

Although it takes place last, I'm of the opinion that SiL works best immediately after Objects at Rest, with the other stuff viewed as supplemental material.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Tom Riker, if you want the greatest impact, watch Sleeping in Light directly after Objects at Rest. Objects in Motion, Objects at Rest and Sleeping in Light are almost as much a trilogy (emotionally) as Messages from Earth, Point of No Return and Severed Dreams were.

Trust us, there's no real story reason to watch it the way you posted and every reason emotionally to watch it this way.

Jan
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Neroon said:
Hirogen Alpha said:
The show definitely should have ended with the Earth-Babylon 5 conflict's conclusion, since it seems JMS' doesn't have the balls to give us the Telepath War that everyone says is coming, but never quite materializes.
What do you mean by "doesn't have the balls" ? If he thought it'd work in a given format, I'm sure he'd like to try it. "Doesn't have the balls" makes it sound like he's afraid to do the story.

A bad choice of words on my part, nevertheless, we've known for a while now that the conflict between telepaths and normals is headed somewhere beyond bigotry and an occasional murder. Hell, even during the episodes of this arc I've seen, they mention that the telepath war is coming. So why on Earth did JMS decide to re-hash things about telepaths that don't tread any new ground for half the final season? I've said before that this season doesn't have any momentum, and this is why-- Byron's story is just too small. Babylon 5, when I've most enjoyed it, has been about larger, ongoing events. The Earth Minbari War, Mars' fight for independence, the Shadow War, the Earth Civil War, etc. All Byron serves to do is reiterate the point that a telepath war is coming, and soon. But we've heard this all before, especially in "Face of the Enemy" from last season. And (since I know a little bit about coming episodes) the telepath war isn't coming. In the final analysis, I have to ask myself, what was the whole point, exactly? JMS spent five years with telepaths, and the psicorp, but unlike all the foreshadowing with Sinclair, with the Shadows, and with the Vorlons there's no pay-off. That's how I feel.

Now that I've written that I realize that my original wording doesn't articulate my feelings about things at all. I have to apologize again for them. Sorry.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

While I don't think JMS has ever come out and said so explicitly, the going theory on why the Telepath War isn't covered directly in Season 5, Crusade, *or* the novels is that JMS was saving up that story for a possible B5 feature film, should one ever be greenlit. It's unclear whether that was the original plan though. I think it was around Season 4 or so when WB went to JMS and asked if he had any ideas that could be used for a feature film, if they decided to go ahead with one (obviously, they ended up not doing so in the end).

In any case, the new script book that just came out (though I don't know if anyone's received it in the mail yet; I haven't) is supposed to include an extended memo written by JMS on a piece of the Season 5 arc that was never used. It may very well have something to do with the Telepath War. I guess we'll find out in a few days when people receive their books.
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

Hirogen Alpha said:
So why on Earth did JMS decide to re-hash things about telepaths that don't tread any new ground for half the final season? I've said before that this season doesn't have any momentum, and this is why-- Byron's story is just too small.

Except that Byron's story is what brings Lyta and the rest of the telepaths to the point of rebellion. What had we been shown through season four that would account for a whole class of people rising in rebellion? Nothing. Suspicion, rumor, small groups of people on the run but nothing to inflame anything that could ignite anything worthy of the term "Telepath War".

There'd been little to show their oppression, certainly nothing that would have caused large numbers of them to rebel. Remember, we did see how the Corps indoctrinated them to only identify with the Corps and to obey the Corps. Early conditioning like that isn't easy to break. Without season 5 to show us how the teeps would react to finding out how they'd been created to be used in a war, it's likely that things would have continued to be tense but not nearly as likely to erupt into a full-blown rebellion. The mass-death of the B5 colony of telepaths *and* the news that they were artificially created to be used as weapons was what needed to come out and her relationship with Byron was what Lyta needed to become the focus of the telepath struggle.

Babylon 5 was always about showing the entire thread of events, not just the explosions. We saw Earth's slow slide into Civil War. Ditto the smaller battles leading up to the Shadow War. Londo's struggle for redemption wouldn't have been nearly as effective without all of the background on his descent. Would anybody really believe that Fourth Season "I'm a terrible liar" Lyta could ever foment a telepath rebellion?

Anything other than the story we saw would have been unbelievable in the B5 universe. It's the fact that the entire Byron thread was isolated in Season 5 instead of building up gradually in season 4 that causes people to find it without momentum.

Jan
 
Re: First time impressions from the Babylon 5 virgin

^^
That sounds great. Now that I think about it, didn't JMS say that he had another idea for a spin-off that was ultimately rejected before Crusade was given the greenlight? Maybe that had to do with the Telepath War. It probably wasn't being saved for the movie, which had the working title Memory of the Shadows, IIRC. But, what do I know? I haven't even finished the series yet.

I hope someone can summarize what's in the new script book, though, when it comes in the mail. Sounds interesting.
 
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