How could you possibly know that?
Nimoy vs DeForest Kelly. Who was the better actor?
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
No, William Demarest was old man in My Three Sons. I can see Hoyt playing some type of senior technician on TOS. I think he was not retained because of the age difference between him and the younger captain.
Last edited:
Because DeForest Kelley is so badly miscast as Spock that the writers shrink the role down to supporting character status, allowing Nimoy in the third-billed doctor role to become a co-equal star with Shatner.
Not long after that, Kelley starts to feel like the hour-and-a-half Vulcan makeup job every morning isn't worth it for such an unappreciated role.
So yeah, I think that if Kelley had been Spock, he'd want out of the series before too long.
Bones kept plenty of alcohol within close reach in Sick Bay. In fact, I recall that when Kirk was in a transporter incident that cleaved him into two separate individuals, the first thing he did was not to run to Scotty to hit him up for a snootfull ... no! He headed right to Sick Bay for an entire bottle of Bones' secret stash of Saurian Brandy. And every time Bones went to Kirk's quarters to hang out, just about ... he came well-prepared to slake his thirst with an alcoholic beverage of one sort, or another (eg. the corbomite maneuver), regardless of the time of day, or not. That's how much of a rummy Bones is ...
Yes, Kirk, Scotty, and Bones liked to drink together. Still waiting on how that makes Bones a "drunk."
OK - several things:
1. The 'Doctor' role was written as it was in the series from the very start - remember that GR wrote the part of 'Boyce' for Kelley from the very beginning - he is even described in the original series format pretty much as Kelley. It's very easy to watch the Cage,and imagine Kelley in the Boyce part. Hoyt actually does a good job - you can imagine Boyce and Pike being good friends. There are also small things like, after the initial beam down to Talos, Boyce sort of checksto see if he's all there/cricks his neck a little - another character that is consistent with what was verbally postulated with McCoy. later on. The ONLY reason Kelley wasn't in The Cage, was because both NBC and Bob Butler, the director weren't keen on Kelley, because of his long resume as a western baddie. Kelley only finally got the McCoy role, after he scored very well as a McCoy type in Roddenberry's Police Story pilot. (Grace Lee Whitney also got HER job because of that pilot also). So the doctor being a part-time By /bartender was always there.
2. There really are a fairly small amount of times drinking for drinking sakes is shown in the series. it generally is shown in social situations (COTK....Space Seed....ITTINB), or as an after work refresher.. The only SERIOUS drinking is Scotty's drinking challenge with Tomar in By Any Other Name, and there its used as comic relief, more than anything else.
3. Initially TNG had an almost prohibition like feeling on alcohol - outside of Picard's wine of course. some of the early episodes had bits that could have been written by the Temperance Union, in fact! When they decided to add Ten-Forward, they got around it by introducing 'synthehol' - a 'non-addicting' alcohol with 'temporary effects'. Then Scotty shows up in Relics...after ordering a scotch...and then gagging on the synthehol version of it, Data goes in back of the bar, rummages around and produces a bottle of....something 'green' (an obvious callback to BAON - and shouldn't have Scotty recognized it??), and pours Scotty a shot. Later, Scotty stumbles to the Holodeck, orders up a simulation of the Enterprise bridge....after he;s been there a while, Picard comes in, Scotty pours him a shot, and Picard slugs it down like a pro - turns out its HIS bottle of Aldeberan Whiskey! It's the only time we see anything like this from Picard - EVER....so much for continuity...
1. The 'Doctor' role was written as it was in the series from the very start - remember that GR wrote the part of 'Boyce' for Kelley from the very beginning - he is even described in the original series format pretty much as Kelley. It's very easy to watch the Cage,and imagine Kelley in the Boyce part. Hoyt actually does a good job - you can imagine Boyce and Pike being good friends. There are also small things like, after the initial beam down to Talos, Boyce sort of checksto see if he's all there/cricks his neck a little - another character that is consistent with what was verbally postulated with McCoy. later on. The ONLY reason Kelley wasn't in The Cage, was because both NBC and Bob Butler, the director weren't keen on Kelley, because of his long resume as a western baddie. Kelley only finally got the McCoy role, after he scored very well as a McCoy type in Roddenberry's Police Story pilot. (Grace Lee Whitney also got HER job because of that pilot also). So the doctor being a part-time By /bartender was always there.
2. There really are a fairly small amount of times drinking for drinking sakes is shown in the series. it generally is shown in social situations (COTK....Space Seed....ITTINB), or as an after work refresher.. The only SERIOUS drinking is Scotty's drinking challenge with Tomar in By Any Other Name, and there its used as comic relief, more than anything else.
3. Initially TNG had an almost prohibition like feeling on alcohol - outside of Picard's wine of course. some of the early episodes had bits that could have been written by the Temperance Union, in fact! When they decided to add Ten-Forward, they got around it by introducing 'synthehol' - a 'non-addicting' alcohol with 'temporary effects'. Then Scotty shows up in Relics...after ordering a scotch...and then gagging on the synthehol version of it, Data goes in back of the bar, rummages around and produces a bottle of....something 'green' (an obvious callback to BAON - and shouldn't have Scotty recognized it??), and pours Scotty a shot. Later, Scotty stumbles to the Holodeck, orders up a simulation of the Enterprise bridge....after he;s been there a while, Picard comes in, Scotty pours him a shot, and Picard slugs it down like a pro - turns out its HIS bottle of Aldeberan Whiskey! It's the only time we see anything like this from Picard - EVER....so much for continuity...
Actually, originally William Frawley (aka Fred Mertz from I Love Lucy) played the live-in maternal grandfather, William Michael Francis Aloysius "Bub" O'Casey. When Frawley's health forced him off My Three Sons after 5 seasons, William Demarest as brought in to play Bub's brother, "Uncle Charley".
That's kinda how I look at it. Spock was Yin to McCoy's Yang and vice versa. Spock, the seemingly cold, emotionless, "all business" guy and McCoy, the emotional, don't hold anything back hot head. Quite the interplay between the two.
I do find it odd that Roddenberry had no issue with conflict among the crew in Kirk's day but when it came to Picard's day, everyone played all nicey nicey with each other.
Well back then he didn't have 20 something years of taking fans, enjoyment of diversity out of context. Somehow, diversity became utopia in his mind. Not to mention a few contradicting facts like Jewels not meaning anything to KIrk in "Catspaw" yet the minors are going to get rich in "Devil in the Dark." You see a little of those kind of things at times in the show.
Jason
I think you are forgetting the interplay between Dr. Pulaski and Data, which was very much in the same vein as McCoy vs. Spock.
Well, I think Spock and McCoy had a playful hostility while Pulaski and Data's issues were more about Pulaski being ignorant. She treated him like a toaster when he was really a person.
Not at all the same thing though when you compare the interactions between Spock/McCoy and Pulaski/Data. Quite different.
I think Pulaski came around on Data as time went on, but regardless, the point I was making is there was indeed some conflict shown on the Enterprise-D.
Kirk also mentions "an incredible fortune in stones" in Arena. It's obvious that precious gems still meant something even in the future.
Sure. It's impossible to remove conflict completely. However, the tone of the original is much different than Next Gen. Look at how many times various members of the crew took issue with Spock just because he was Vulcan and acted like Vulcans are supposed to act. Some of these interactions are either bordering on insubordination or are outright insubordination
Thinking about it further, this is the kind of thing that an internal continuity manager would have been able to prevent. I'm sure they had no budget for such a position though. It's even more likely that no one ever thought of it to begin with.
If you're not convinced ... oh, well. I know Bones is loved, especially on these boards an that's cool. I love how Bones is in the new movies, though ... it's like they've finally got him right.
De Kelley definitely did make McCoy look better than what was often on paper, even if the casual specismism still slipped through. Sometimes it happens, it's best overlooked - which Spock largely did, though in "Day of the Dove", "This Side of Paradise" (though Kirk was using whatever means were necessary to get Spock to emote since negative emotions killed the spores, which were the real danger - funny, the spores were almost a precognitive commentary/allegory on cults - a phenomenon that would be a big problem a decade later and blossomed in the wake of "flower power", ask Jim Jones about it), and others, his emotions are brought to light on the issue. McCoy, despite his exterior, was friends with Spock and I think Spock knew it as well.
As for Nimoy, that was back during his "I Am Not Spock" phase. There's a fun book... his sequel, "I Am Spock", is also worth finding.
It was shocking to read Karl Urban almost balked at ST:B. Glad he was won over, ST:B is easily the best of the Kelvin era movies, on multiple levels (IMHO).
Similar threads
