New to Who

[Redfern]

Janeway's Girl, when Tennant's Doctor addresses Davison's, saying, "You were my Doctor," that's actually David speaking from the heart to Peter. True, the two actors were playing roles on a set, but Davison was the one on the tele when David watched the series as a kid. So there's a bit of sincerity in his voice.

The short also dispelled any fannish delusions that the '05 revival was some kind of "reboot". This was a "continuation" that acknowledged the original 63-89 series as part of its history.

Oh, since you have yet to watch any of the Davison adventures, you would not have noticed this element, but several of the musical cues harkened to the Casio keyboard feel of the early 80s when Peter was the Doctor. I thought that a really nice touch.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[NightJim]

Although, she did marry poorly.

Indeed. It felt like Davies through them together because he didn't know what else to do with them/only had time for 1 scene and had 2 characters to fit into it. Personally I much prefer her UNIT/Torchwood deal than what she became.

I really want Big Finish to address it, now that they're doing New Who, but I doubt they'd do what I hope they would.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Yes she did leave of her own accord but I just didn't like that she had to address her feelings for the doctor as an added reason for leaving.

You all seem to forget that I gave series 4 (1 and 3) a try once before, having watched the first 3 episodes and the River two-parter. I stopped in the middle of The Sontaran Stratagem, so I know Martha returns. In reading up on her I also know she is engaged to Mickey. Some things I don't mind being spoiled while others I like to be surprised.

So I'll be going back to that episode.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Martha's mooning over the Doctor is the only thing that I didn't like about series 3. It's also why I like Donna better than both Martha or Rose, she was just having fun and enjoying her time with the Doctor without getting all moony eyed.

 

[Guy Gardener]

"Whooooooo is that?" (Donna singling out Jack on a monitor) is still one of the funniest lines, which is right beside the second funniest line that Jackie Tyler is not allowed to drive the TARDIS.

 

[kirk55555]

Martha's mooning over the Doctor is the only thing that I didn't like about series 3. It's also why I like Donna better than both Martha or Rose, she was just having fun and enjoying her time with the Doctor without getting all moony eyed.

Yeah. I personally thought Martha was bland, but inoffensive. Her feelings for the Doctor were kind of irritating though, especially after Rose. I actually liked Rose all the way through her run, but transitioning from one companion in love with The Doctor to another right away was a mistake. Honestly, I think the show could just take a break from the "companion in love with the Doctor" thing for awhile. Say, a decade or so Honestly though, I doubt we'll see any companion have romantic feelings for The 12th Doctor, but I hope the 13th doesn't immediately go back to that Doctor/Companion dynamic.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Hmm... 13. That seems a bit far off because from watching interviews with Peter Capaldi, he says he wants to be the Doctor for a long time. But I wonder when he does step down, if they will continue with a more mature actor or go younger again?

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Oh, since you have yet to watch any of the Davison adventures, you would not have noticed this element, but several of the musical cues harkened to the Casio keyboard feel of the early 80s when Peter was the Doctor. I thought that a really nice touch.

Speaking of, did anyone else pick up on some Davison-esque music cues during the opening space battle of "Into the Dalek"?

Although, she did marry poorly.

Indeed. It felt like Davies through them together because he didn't know what else to do with them/only had time for 1 scene and had 2 characters to fit into it. Personally I much prefer her UNIT/Torchwood deal than what she became.

I dunno. It made me happy when I saw Martha & Mickey together in "The End of Time."

As for Martha leaving UNIT, after the events of Torchwood: Children of Earth, I would have insisted upon it. UNIT seemed like a very deeply morally compromised organization after that. (Thankfully, I've now had time to get over it in the 6 years since "Children of Earth." Having the Brigadier's daughter as the head of UNIT now also helps.)

In the grand scheme of the new series, Martha is my 2nd least favorite companion. Thankfully, she didn't get as gooey with the Doctor as Rose did. But I agree that the unrequited romance angle was a bad call; particularly coming immediately after Rose; particularly since they played it as if the reason why the Doctor would never even look at Martha was because he was still hung up on Rose. The show probably would have benefited from switching the order and doing Donna's season before Martha's.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Hmm... 13. That seems a bit far off because from watching interviews with Peter Capaldi, he says he wants to be the Doctor for a long time.

Here's hoping. (Although, Colin Baker said the same thing and we all know how that turned out.)

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Um, I don't. I'm guessing he left really early on?

 

[Turtletrekker]

Nah. Colin Baker (Number Six) was the only Doctor to be, through no real fault of his own, fired from the role. The TPTB at BBC made his Doctor rather unlikeable and hard to look at, and then wondered why the ratings dropped.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Oh. Too bad for him then.

 

[Guy Gardener]

There's a year and half break in the middle of Colin's run because the Beeb lost confidence.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Ah. I see.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Colin, 6 was much larger than 5, husky vs. thin, no one was outright fat, but as far as the regeneration sequence was concerned, they had to cut open almost the entire back of 5's coat and hold it together with stickytape and safety pins so that 6 could squeeze into 5's celery coat to transition seemlessly.

The joke is that 30 years later, that sheared apart and barely holding itself in one piece, left in a wardrobe for three decades, 5 found his old coat, even after it had been expanded for his successor's girth, to be a little snug.

 

[Volpone]

Um, I don't. I'm guessing he left really early on?

Yup. I'll name-drop (in a very minor way)--back in the mid-80s, I went to a Dr. Who convention at the Minneapolis Armory with Colin Baker (#6) and Patrick Troughton (#2). They were both great and Baker was a class act, carrying the water for the BBC. His namesake, Tom Baker, was the longest reigning Doctor at 7 years and Colin announced to the effect that he would be the Doctor for twice that long if they'd have him.

Of course the hated John Nathan-Turner (who I actually quite liked at the time, because he improved some of the FX and made the aliens look less like a guy under a green rubber blanket and such) was in the process of ruining the show. After stylizing Tom Baker's costume, he went even farther with Peter Davison's and finally wound up dressing Colin Baker literally like a circus clown (they somewhat dialed it back with McCoy but by then the show was in a death spiral, but I digress).

Add in horrible, incomprehensible scripts and utterly bewildering production and before long the show was on Death Row. And the only thing that bought it 3 more (shortened) seasons was the promise that JNT would fire Colin Baker. (So he could hire a guy who played the spoons any chance he got and would likely say "Rrrrrreverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrse the polarrrrrrrity of the neutrrrrrrrrrrrrrron flow!" if given the chance.)

(Again, I've literally waited almost 30 years to see the last couple years of the original series. Boy was that a bitter disappointment, as you can probably tell.)

 

[Nightowl1701]

It didn't help that the BBC got a new boss, Michael Grade, just as Colin was starting out as the Doctor. Grade was on a mission to modernize the BBC, make it more 80's, and saw Doctor Who as a quaint 'ghastly and pathetic' relic of the 60's that had long outlived its time. (There was actually nothing wrong with Colin's ratings, he was pulling an average 7 million UK viewers a week.)

And Colin's firing (ordered just as Grade himself was leaving the BBC) was a personal 'FU' blow. Grade's lover at the time, actress Liza Goddard, was Colin's ex-wife. (Even the BBC viewed the order as an abuse of Grade's position, but were unable to reverse it.)

Colin, quite understandably, refused to come back to just shoot the season-opening regeneration scene (the firing had happened in between seasons). So his replacement, Sylvester McCoy, was forced to don Colin's (FAR too big on him) costume and a curly blond wig and be shot from the back lying on the floor of the TARDIS console room until he could be flipped over (with swirly regeneration fx hiding his face until the wig could be crossfaded out). That, and the near-parody tone of the season that followed, left an audience outraged and feeling sorry for Colin even less inclined to like his successor. That's when ratings began to fall.

JNT and his script editor Andrew Cartmel began to right the creative ship in Sylvester's second season, but by then the other BBC execs were getting sick of the show and its' backstage drama. TNG was now on the air, and the BBC didn't have anywhere near the fx money (or the will) to compete. They stopped all advertising for the show, put DW up against Britain's biggest soap opera (ITV's Coronation Street), and jacked up syndication fees to other countries to unaffordable levels (no more showings on PBS, for example).

The final deathblow for the show came when Philip Segal of Columbia Pictures offered the BBC a deal to produce a DW TV-movie/backdoor pilot for American audiences, produced and financed by Columbia. The show was then 'rested' to allow that film project to proceed. That film, seven long years later (and after a switch from Columbia to Universal), emerged as Paul McGann's debut as the Eighth Doctor and aired on the Fox Network.

Too bad it ended up airing against the series finale of Roseanne.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

Wow. Thanks for all the background info. That's a lot to process.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Too bad it ended up airing against the series finale of Roseanne.

Fucking Americans and their lame sitcoms...

 

[MacLeod]

It didn't help that the BBC got a new boss, Michael Grade, just as Colin was starting out as the Doctor. Grade was on a mission to modernize the BBC, make it more 80's, and saw Doctor Who as a quaint 'ghastly and pathetic' relic of the 60's that had long outlived its time. (There was actually nothing wrong with Colin's ratings, he was pulling an average 7 million UK viewers a week.)

And Colin's firing (ordered just as Grade himself was leaving the BBC) was a personal 'FU' blow. Grade's lover at the time, actress Liza Goddard, was Colin's ex-wife. (Even the BBC viewed the order as an abuse of Grade's position, but were unable to reverse it.)

Colin, quite understandably, refused to come back to just shoot the season-opening regeneration scene (the firing had happened in between seasons). So his replacement, Sylvester McCoy, was forced to don Colin's (FAR too big on him) costume and a curly blond wig and be shot from the back lying on the floor of the TARDIS console room until he could be flipped over (with swirly regeneration fx hiding his face until the wig could be crossfaded out). That, and the near-parody tone of the season that followed, left an audience outraged and feeling sorry for Colin even less inclined to like his successor. That's when ratings began to fall.

JNT and his script editor Andrew Cartmel began to right the creative ship in Sylvester's second season, but by then the other BBC execs were getting sick of the show and its' backstage drama. TNG was now on the air, and the BBC didn't have anywhere near the fx money (or the will) to compete. They stopped all advertising for the show, put DW up against Britain's biggest soap opera (ITV's Coronation Street), and jacked up syndication fees to other countries to unaffordable levels (no more showings on PBS, for example).

The final deathblow for the show came when Philip Segal of Columbia Pictures offered the BBC a deal to produce a DW TV-movie/backdoor pilot for American audiences, produced and financed by Columbia. The show was then 'rested' to allow that film project to proceed. That film, seven long years later (and after a switch from Columbia to Universal), emerged as Paul McGann's debut as the Eighth Doctor and aired on the Fox Network.

Too bad it ended up airing against the series finale of Roseanne.

However when the DW TV Movie aired on BBC1 it pulled in a very healthy 9+ million viewers and I think was the most watched drama show of the week.

Unfortunatly it would take the Beeb another 8 years to actually regnererate the show.