News New season 3 teaser

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by F. King Daniel, Mar 26, 2020.

  1. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Even though TOS,DS9,Voyager and Enterprise didn't lay it on as think as TNG with the bright super positive future they still stayed close enough that I think people didn't mind to much. The violence still wasn't graphic. You still had all the familiar aliens and colorful space uniforms and tech. Also importantly the shows happened in a time when the world was not so politically divided. Modern day politics does impact how people also feel. Some people don't want contemporary issues explore and prefer the most accessible approach of the Berman era were you explored themes or human nature stuff but did hold back on getting into specifics of the issues of the day. Also the people making the show never talked politics and neither did the fans that much either. The world just wasn't as divisive as it is today and it was easier for people to ignore things that they disagreed with. Most of the fights were over nerd stuff and now is about calling people racist or SJW and getting into really personal fights that go beyond the actual show. I think people miss how it felt like a simplier time back then.


    Jason
     
  2. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The world wasn't as politically divided or divisive from 1966 to 1969 as it is today?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    You can't be serious. And if you are you really need to go back and look at the history of the world in the 1960s.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  3. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    We're on the way to things getting worse but we're still not there. Too many people are willing to fall in line, anyone who tries to drive change is subverted, and no one with the power to make things happen will do anything until it's too late.

    And not enough has happened to effect everyday people's everyday lives. Until now. It's too early to know for sure, but I think we just hit a fault line.

    Discovery Season 3 has the chance to show how things can become better after they became catastrophically worse. It could be a tale of "We didn't want this to happen but, now that it has, here's what we can do to make it better. We're not going to let this obstacle stop us from prevailing."

    It's hard to say in the dark, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say I think DSC S3 will probably eventually be seen as ahead of its time.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my post.

    DS9 marked a return to the more gritty and conflicted future that is presented in both TOS and Discovery, and internal conflict was baked into the very premise of Voyager and persisted throughout the entirety of the series even if it wasn't manifested to the degree that some people think it ought to have given how fundamental to the series' premise it was intended to be, and, of course, Enterprise was full of grit and conflict since it was markedly closer to our own timeline than any of the other series in the Trek franchise, making TNG's depiction of this super-bright, super-cheery utopian future where everything is always okay in the end an outlier viewpoint that never actually existed in-universe given the ways that the aforementioned DS9 and Voyager depicted the 24th Century and what was going on in it.
     
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  5. Kpnuts

    Kpnuts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My what? What's me? Her tedious over-acting and bland, annoying, badly written character is my fault?

    Burnham might be the lead character, the show can revolve around her, but that doesn't mean the universe has to. If the Red Angel storyline hadn't happened, then no one would be complaining, but the fact is, it did, she saved the entire galaxy from total destruction, a few short months after stopping a war. (And as if that terrible writing wasn't bad enough, we were also treated to an awkward 30 second clip of her screaming in slow motion as she did it. Great. :ack:)
     
  6. Quinton

    Quinton Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well said, Garth. I’ve had similar thoughts on the subject.
     
  7. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not talking about the 60's. The vision of Trek people are on about comes from TNG and the Berman era which was late 80's to early 2000's.


    Jason
     
  8. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

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    And? (It's certainly not proof against posting drivel.)

    Meh. Don't really need that, do we? Comes along often enough unprompted.

    Outstanding. Should be a sticky somewhere. :techman::techman::techman:

    So. Much. Yawn.
     
  9. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think it's a fine premise that can make for a good show but I think many fans aren't looking at from a creative perspective. They like the idealistic future as a kind of dream setting in which it's a place they would like to live in as a kind of alternative to the hardships of our real world. They like social issues being little morality plays and they just love the imagination involved in both the tech and how the crews are basically families and just the overriding amount positivity that comes from the universe. It feels like a comfortable blanket that might make you think about important issues but it's never going to really offend you by attacking any of your own values because the show's other than TOS have had a kind of distance to the world in which they were being made.

    It's one of the reasons why even though it's got a overall liberal perspective it's been able to get fans from all sorts of different political backgrounds. It's always sort of had this appeal that everyone could find something in it you love. You see people other than white people so it's got appeal for people wanting more diversity and the science stuff appeals to people who are into science and you always here about people in those fields talking about their love of Trek and it's stories and characters have been compelling enough to appeal to people who just like it as a good tv show or for people having difficulties a fantasy land to escape to and the social commentary has always been subtle enough that it doesn't offend people more conservative.

    That is because they were created in a time when tv shows had to be made to be more accessible for ratings as opposed to now where you can amp up the political messaging because now shows can be successful by simply appealing to smaller but reliable fanbase. For most shows that isn't a problem. Nobody cares for example that something like Firefly that you basically got to be a nerd to like it. With these older franchises though that were created in a time when they had approach social issues in a different way than shows do today your always going to see some backlash. Especially with the big 3 in Trek,Star Wars, and Doctor Who because they gained a lot of their success on creating a lot of mainstream appeal. I think people have forgotten how tv was made back in the day before cable and streaming and you couldn't be picky about your viewers. Nobody making a show would insult fans any possible fans in the media or today it's social media because every viewer was needed for ratings.

    Jason
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  10. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    I understand this viewpoint, even though it's not one that I share. I think we all know this. But I'm saying what I personally would get out of DSC S3 if it goes the way I think it'll be going. Which isn't much to go on at this point. I'm basing it off the trailer from October and the teaser from last week. So the tethered Federation flag with only six planets and Saru's proclamation to make the future bright again.

    I'm still in the middle of looking at everything Gene Roddenberry said about his views on the future (it's something I've been doing off-and-on for the past week-and-a-half, it is taking a while, and I have had other things going on, so it's been an effort and people have to sit tight). I won't post anything further on that until I'm done putting everything together. But I can say that he believed humanity had a durability. If society was knocked down, it would come back up again, maybe better.

    Maybe that's not the "warm, comfy blanket" of the past, but that does speak to my outlook on the future. As it looks right now, the world is going to be even worse when we're old than it is right now. There's no question of it in my mind. Our generation is fucked. There's no two ways about it. The question is: "What do we do even as this is happening and afterwards?" I'm not particularly interested in distraction (even though posting here is itself a distraction, ironically) but ideas that can point to a solution ahead in the altered landscape we face. It doesn't need to be the solution, nor am I looking for it to be, but it can be something that gets people thinking or wondering. Discovery doesn't have to be an exact parallel. In fact I prefer that it doesn't look like it's going to be -- because there's a big difference between timely and something that will date what you're watching almost immediately (hello Star Trek VI) -- but I do appreciate something that's in tune with things that are along the line of what's on my mind.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
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  11. Noname Given

    Noname Given Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry you included TOS in your opening paragraph,; so if you weren't talking about the '60s why did you include it in your post?
     
  12. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    All of Star Trek presents an idealized future, but only TNG tries to argue that an idealized future also has to be or is going to be a sanitized one, which is why it holds up the least of all the post-TOS Trek series.

    People have created this idea in their heads that all of Star Trek has to be sanitized like TNG in order to be "real" Star Trek, but simultaneously want TOS to be considered "real" Star Trek even though its tonal ideology is a complete 360° pivot away from TNG and is completely in line with the tonal ideologies of DS9, VGR, ENT, DSC, and PCRD.
     
  13. Kpnuts

    Kpnuts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :rolleyes:

    I was replying to this...

     
  14. SJGardner

    SJGardner Commodore Commodore

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    Still trying to wrap my head around the idea that a storyline that's apparently going to be about relighting the flame of civilization and bringing back hope is not optimistic and positive. Yeah, I get it that the Federation's fall is bound to leave a bad taste in the mouths of lots of fans, but I'd personally find a future with a hyper-advanced Federation already having explored, discovered, developed and solved everything to be super boring. What would that leave us? Discovery would just leave for another unexplored galaxy that can tell the same stories that TNG or Voyager did, with the same setting, only phasers, photon torpedoes, shields and whatnot having different names and FX. So yes, I very much welcome the change of setting because it will allow Discovery to tell another kind of story it hasn't told before. People might derisively call it a mere rehash of Andromeda, even though it's a common type of story in speculative fiction, from Asimov's Foundation to the Fallout series of video games... I'm very much curious to see Star Trek's take on the topic.

    But then again, we don't learn much from the teaser itself, we can only infer the series is going to be about Discovery taking on the mantle of rebuilding the Federation, told from Burnham's perspective, as she's the main character. To be honest, it's not that different than jaded washout Benjamin Sisko, freshly assigned to a graveyard backwater position, swiftly becoming the center of everything even tangentially related to Bajor to the point of the reveal that he was descended from their gods, not to mention the Dominion War and his direct involvement in multiple regime changes, etc, etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  15. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I've always had mix feelings about the Roddenberry vision most noticeable in TNG. TNG is the show that made me a fan I know that kind of, warm comfy blanket as you said really made me a fan because I was really depressed at the time and it still does when I feel bad. Yet my favorite shows in terms of quality are DS9 and TOS. Both still feel like comfy escapism but also without being quite as naïve. So I kind of like both approaches but I do feel CBS Trek has moved even past the DS9 and TOS phase. They are more about exploring the idea that maybe we someday will get their where as the older stuff even TOS though the Roddenberry vision wasn't really created yet, simply show the dream already intact and the aspirational stuff comes more from example of how cool it would be if we grew as a species than trying to explore how to get their.

    It would I also think be a easier sale if people liked the people making the show. People trusted and like Michael Piller and most of the writers on TNG except maybe some issues with Braga because he talked about not being a Trek fan. They also like Behr and those writers on DS9 as well. In fact the writers of those shows are almost as big as stars to the fans as the characters. People did hate Berman but their has always been a feeling that Piller and Behr were able to work around him.

    The Discovery writing situation has been a one controversary issue after another and people seem to dislike Kurtzman much like Berman only you don't have that really talented person who people feels like they truly love Trek and have been able to prove it with writing some great stuff. Picard has it better off because people did seem to like Chabon so even though they had issues as well people rolled with the mistakes easier and also because the show was pretty good overall. If Fuller had stayed all of this would be mute. He had the vision. He might have gotten Rosario Dawson so he would also have the star fans would love. It would have changed everything and fans would have ignored the flaws much easier or any mistakes.


    Jason
     
  16. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Probably out of habit. I am so use to thinking of TOS being connected with TNG and DS9 and the Berman stuff. I didn't become a fan until 94 so I never really experienced Trek back in the days when it was only TOS.


    Jason
     
  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The vast majority of the hatred leveled at DSC is pedantic, hypocritical nonsense.
     
  18. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think one of the reasons it doesn't feel positive is one of the reasons why people were afraid of the Federation being the bad guys in Picard. The idea that everything that was accomplished in those shows and their legacies would basically be erased and forgotten. It means people in this future don't look back at Kirk and Picard as heroes. The name Enterprise means nothing. And the utopia on earth is gone and the people living in this time not to mention the several decades before the fall lived lives in basically a non-Trekian landscape. It's almost like your erasing canon by going to a place that doesn't remember it. More symbolic concerns about preserving the Trek legacy and also no trust in the writing staff so some seeing it as them giving old Trek the middle finger.

    I think the only artistic issue I have seen is the fear they will once again have Burnham be a savior once again. I think people are simply tired of this idea that their is some destiny that only one person can solve in tv and movies in general yet Discovery will have still done it 3 seasons in a role if they do it again. Far cry from Picard who got fired, cussed out of Starfleet headquarters and had to join a band of rogues to go save this girl who was in trouble. I've noticed lots of shows are starting to go for the everyman hero right now. The Mandolorian is just another bounty hunter, Captain Mercer barely got a command , the Legends of Tomorrow are kind of a bunch of misfits. Meanwhile Burnham is Jesus every season. Especially confusing because the idea of making the lead a non-captain was actually to move away from this or at least that was the initial idea.

    Jason
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2020
  19. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No way to tell. Heck even saying someone not liking the show is hatred is unknown. Hatred is pretty strong emotion for someone to have for even the worst tv show they might dislike.

    Jason
     
  20. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is there a premiere date for Season 3 yet? I need to know whether or not to keep my CBSAA subscription going!