Nemesis

[CommanderRaytas]

It's like those boys from Galaxy Quest had been asked to design a bad-ass Romulan ship.

As for being "rabid", I agree. This is a message board about a franchise, not Parliament. It's all good fun, I don't really take any of this seriously.

 

[knine]

I actually caught a part of Nemesis a week ago on TV. I will say I really like the music in the film.

 

[Gojira]

I'm watching Nemesis right now, to finally conclude my Trek movie marathon and I honestly think it's now my least favorite movie. Before, it was The Motion Picture but Nemesis is truly a piece of garbage.

Does anyone on this board really love this movie? No judgments if you do, I'm just curious to see if there is something I'm missing.

I don't love the movie but I don't hate it either (I do like them all to some degree).

What I don't like about the movie first of all is that the themes are too dark for a Star Trek movie. In my opinion Star Trek can be serious but needs to also have a lite touch and that is where Nemesis failed.

 

[sonak]

TWOK, TUC, and FC all have some pretty dark material in there. I don't think NEM is unusually dark for Trek movies.

 

[heavylids]

Most villains are portrayed as being pure evil, which I find to be boring. What I was getting at is in the Star Trek universe the villain needs more depth than your average bad guy. Since the history of Trek is so vast, you have so much to work with, but with Shinzon I feel like he lacked the depth to be a good Trek villain.

I guess you could say I demand more when it comes to characters in Star Trek than any other show or film.

 

[RyuRoots]

Most villains are portrayed as being pure evil, which I find to be boring. What I was getting at is in the Star Trek universe the villain needs more depth than your average bad guy. Since the history of Trek is so vast, you have so much to work with, but with Shinzon I feel like he lacked the depth to be a good Trek villain.

I guess you could say I demand more when it comes to characters in Star Trek than any other show or film.

Villains in the ST movies really aren't a strong point. Chang is really the only good one that ever showed up in a Star Trek movie if you ask me. Not that I don't agree that they should be better, but the bar is pretty low when it comes to ST movie villains.

 

[Admiral_Young]

The score for the film is one of the good things about it.

 

[Jax]

Nemesis is the worst ST film bar none and its the ONLY ST movie I hate. B-4 comes out of nowhere and is only really around to soften the loss of data, lessing his own sacrifice. The Remans come out of nowhere and somehow has this MASSIVE ship that can fire/cloak at will - am sorry why didn't the Romulans build a fleet fo the dam things if there so powerful. The horrible action scenes like the buggy chase and the space battle is a awkward horribly paced part of the movie...Oh it also doesn't help they CUT out some of the best character scenes.

TMP has a classic charm to it with the feeling of exploration, something the other movies don't have. Also TMP has my favourite scene of the entire franchise, when we see the Refit Enterprise for the first time - dam shes a fine looking ship .

Even TFF is a decent movie despite BIG plot holes with Sybok relation to Spock and the centre of the galaxy thing + a weak Klingon B plot...TFF is a charming and at times a very witty film with some great character moments plus has one of the most powerful scenes IMO with Spocks reaction to seeing his birth and McCoy with his dying father.

Personally I rank them as...

Star Trek
The Undiscovered Country
The Wrath of Khan
First Contact
The Voyage Home
The Motion Picture
The Search for Spock
Generations
The Final Frotier
Insurrection
Nemesis

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

TWOK, TUC, and FC all have some pretty dark material in there. I don't think NEM is unusually dark for Trek movies.

But it is unusually depressing.

TWOK, TUC and FC all end on high notes, leaving the audience with some kind of hope or fuzzy moment.

Nemesis isn't bad, but it did destroy my will to live.

 

[HoneyBLilly]

You know it's honestly bwhen it's biggest positive reaction is Janeway appearing on screen.

I'm not saying Janeway's bad. But when she appeared everyone at my theatre in the midnight showing cheered. There may have been a few non-cheerers but no boos.

So in that whole two hours the biggest positive reaction was Admiral Janeway. I kid you not.

 

[sonak]

TWOK, TUC, and FC all have some pretty dark material in there. I don't think NEM is unusually dark for Trek movies.

But it is unusually depressing.

TWOK, TUC and FC all end on high notes, leaving the audience with some kind of hope or fuzzy moment.

Nemesis isn't bad, but it did destroy my will to live.

TWOK hardly ends on a high note, as Spock is dead at the end of that film. If you're going to argue that it ends on a high note because they laid the seeds for his return at the end, you'd have to say the same about Data in NEM.

 

[Admiral_Young]

TWOK ends with a sense of hope but still is sorrowful with the death of Spock on everyone's minds. This carries on into the start of TSFS. Nemesis too ended in a similar way...the death of Data on everyone's mind, but we're left with a sense of hope and something new. Change is very much the theme at the end of the movie in my opinion. The similarities between TWOK and Nemesis are too numerous to ignore or dismiss.

 

[GalaxyX]

After much time thinking about it, I think I can trace the 6 things I hated the most about the movie, going in chronological order from beginning to end of movie:

1. Practically no action until the end of the movie. A lot of it is pure exposition.

2. The one bit of action at the beginning with the dune buggy was the biggest slap in the face to TNG fans. Picard would NEVER do what he did there.

3. The whole freakin' movie was physically dark. Can someone turn on the damn lights please!!

4. Shinzon reminded me exactly of Anakin Skywalker from the SW Prequels. A whiny bitch of a kid who is playing video games with actual war machines. Not for a second did I believe he was an actual threat to the crew. More like a whiny kid in need of a serious spanking. It didn't help that he looked nothing like Picard other than he was bald.

5. Data dies.

6. The whole wrap up to the story line is so horrible. Data's death feels like a huge defeat for the crew. The last 10 minutes are so depressing. Having B4 "hint" at being the new Data doesn't help. Then the movie has the audacity to play the triumphant music for the end credits, like we had just seen an amazing victory for the TNG crew.


I remember walking out of the theater thinking "WTF?" But I would have forgiven a lot of it if they hadn't killed off Data.

 

[Captrek]

The whole freakin' movie was physically dark. Can someone turn on the damn lights please!!

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[JarodRussell]

After much time thinking about it, I think I can trace the 6 things I hated the most about the movie, going in chronological order from beginning to end of movie:

1. Practically no action until the end of the movie. A lot of it is pure exposition.

2. The one bit of action at the beginning with the dune buggy was the biggest slap in the face to TNG fans. Picard would NEVER do what he did there.

3. The whole freakin' movie was physically dark. Can someone turn on the damn lights please!!

4. Shinzon reminded me exactly of Anakin Skywalker from the SW Prequels. A whiny bitch of a kid who is playing video games with actual war machines. Not for a second did I believe he was an actual threat to the crew. More like a whiny kid in need of a serious spanking. It didn't help that he looked nothing like Picard other than he was bald.

5. Data dies.

6. The whole wrap up to the story line is so horrible. Data's death feels like a huge defeat for the crew. The last 10 minutes are so depressing. Having B4 "hint" at being the new Data doesn't help. Then the movie has the audacity to play the triumphant music for the end credits, like we had just seen an amazing victory for the TNG crew.


I remember walking out of the theater thinking "WTF?" But I would have forgiven a lot of it if they hadn't killed off Data.

I also don't like Nemesis, but all the things you listed can be attributed to TWOK, too, and I like that one.

 

[RyuRoots]

^While I do roll my eyes every time someone whines about the Argo sequence, that isn't something you can attribute to TWOK.

But I do agree that TWOK shares some of those.

 

[Too Much Fun]

It just goes to show how important execution is. Two stories can do the same things, but one does them effectively, the other does them poorly, and that makes all the difference. But what's the "Star Trek II" equivalent of the Dune Buggy scene?

 

[JarodRussell]

It just goes to show how important execution is. Two stories can do the same things, but one does them effectively, the other does them poorly, and that makes all the difference. But what's the "Star Trek II" equivalent of the Dune Buggy scene?

More the "Picard would NEVER do what he did there." part of Kirk acting totally stupid when the Reliant shows up. And then Scotty appearing on the bridge with the dead cadet.

I had more problems with the dune buggy itself, and the whole "let's ignore Prime Directive" thing and with the aliens showing up and attacking them, but not with Picard driving and having fun with it.

 

[DWF]

I think whatever problems Nemesis has bothers the fans more than the general audience, I really don't think the general movie going audience cared that much if the movie violated the series continuity.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Continuity wouldn't help. It's still a depressing ending note for TNG.

The TOS cast got to go out on an optimistic note... but the TNG cast limps back into spacedock at the end of their final outing. Triumphant indeed.