Nemesis
- Thread starter heavylids
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Horrible marketing, only one big name actor in the cast. Serenity did even worse at the box office than Nemesis and the fans of Firefly loved that movie. Does Serenity's failure mean the audience didn't get the plot?
People saw Nemesis in theaters? 
People saw Nemesis in theaters?
Not as many that saw Maid in Manhattan!
People saw Nemesis in theaters?
Yes surprisingly when I went to see it the theater was half full.
I think TWOK works so much better because Khan works so much better as a villain than Shinzon does.
Khan was someone you could genuinely fear, and at least in his mind he had a reason to go after Kirk (that made some sense to us).
Shinzon's reason for attacking the Federation??? I'm still trying to think what it was.
And TWOK's dark ending was only offset by TSFS, where we get Spock back.
I don't think TNG is going to give us a chance to see Data come back at all, so in effect TNG did limp home after a massive defeat, and that's how the saga ended.
I think that was pretty pathetic. Most of the general public wants to see a movie that ends on a good tone, even if the movie itself is dark.
Can you imagine if The Dark Knight was the last Batman movie? Or if The Empire Strikes Back was the last Star Wars movie?
Nemesis, being the final outing of the TNG crew basically did that to its viewers, particularly TNG fans.
Having just watched "Serenity" again this past weekend, I just have to say I thought it was a great (canon) ending to the "Firefly" characters and universe. It really did feel like they were going for broke. I suppose I can imagine how it might have lead to a sequel, but to me it felt like the story started in the series was brought to a natural end. That's why cast member deaths don't really bother me (except the way the death happened was kinda stupid...what the hell impaled him anyway?). I think fans clamoring for a sequel don't know what's best for them. It wouldn't be the same without the whole cast, and it doesn't matter because the end didn't leave us hanging.
As for "Star Trek: Nemesis", it was the first and only TNG movie I saw in theatres and I loved it. I also thought Data's death was powerful and gave the movie a strong ending and emotional resonance. Of course I was biased because I was a teenager who grew up watching TNG and was stoked to see that cast on the big screen for the first time (I was too young when their other movies came out). My jaw dropped at Data's death and I thought I'd witnessed something truly poignant. I was also impressed at what an entertainingly menacing villain Shinzon was.
I hadn't seen "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" at the time. It wasn't until I got older and saw the other Star Trek movies (except "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier", which I've never seen in its entirety) that I realized what a weak and ill-conceived movie "Star Trek: Nemesis" was. My immature, inexperienced heart was tricked into thinking I'd seen a good movie by Tom Hardy's charismatic acting and the cheap tear jerking tactic of the Data stuff. Ah, to be that young and blissfully ignorant again.
As for "Star Trek: Nemesis", it was the first and only TNG movie I saw in theatres and I loved it. I also thought Data's death was powerful and gave the movie a strong ending and emotional resonance. Of course I was biased because I was a teenager who grew up watching TNG and was stoked to see that cast on the big screen for the first time (I was too young when their other movies came out). My jaw dropped at Data's death and I thought I'd witnessed something truly poignant. I was also impressed at what an entertainingly menacing villain Shinzon was.
I hadn't seen "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" at the time. It wasn't until I got older and saw the other Star Trek movies (except "Star Trek V: The Final Frontier", which I've never seen in its entirety) that I realized what a weak and ill-conceived movie "Star Trek: Nemesis" was. My immature, inexperienced heart was tricked into thinking I'd seen a good movie by Tom Hardy's charismatic acting and the cheap tear jerking tactic of the Data stuff. Ah, to be that young and blissfully ignorant again.
I agree TMF, but I still miss Wash. If a sequel was to happen? Maybe in between the series and movie. But thats neither here nor there.
Its always interesting though to look back on things we saw as kids and see how they've fared. I used to think the A-Team was badass and awesome. Now I just love how campy it is. And to be honest, if you look at Nemesis with an eye towards funniness it can be hilarious. Especially the dune buggies and the low lighting.
stardestroyer.net had some sort of mocking summary of it, and while I normally loathe the guy there, he's hysterically right this time. (Here's the link, hope its not a problem: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html)
Its always interesting though to look back on things we saw as kids and see how they've fared. I used to think the A-Team was badass and awesome. Now I just love how campy it is. And to be honest, if you look at Nemesis with an eye towards funniness it can be hilarious. Especially the dune buggies and the low lighting.
stardestroyer.net had some sort of mocking summary of it, and while I normally loathe the guy there, he's hysterically right this time. (Here's the link, hope its not a problem: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html)
People saw Nemesis in theaters?
Not as many that saw Maid in Manhattan!
Sadly true. I saw both that weekend.
And even sadder, Maid in Manhattan was better.
Has Nemesis gone up against Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings I'm pretty sure there would have been another one. Those are actual legitimate things to lose to. But Nemesis lost to JLo? Seriously. I almost can't blame Paramount for being ashamed to talk about Star Trek for as long as they were mum about it.
OK, let's try to be fair to Nem here. The box office draw wasn't entirely or perhaps even mostly due to the quality of the film.
INS already was a big drop-off box office-wise from FC. NEM just continued the trend. The peak of Trek's popularity had passed a decade ago, the only Trek TV series going at that point was ENT, which was limping along with poor ratings by this point. The Trek franchise as a whole was suffering from oversaturation and fatigue.
Fortunately, it got the break it needed to come back strong.
I'm not a big Firefly fan myself. I think it overdid a lot of what O'Neill had done in SG-1. It felt like a blatand rip off of the "snarky smart ass character who laughs at the villains to their face" style, only EVERYONE on Firefly was like that.
With that said, the series had some moments, and I thought the movie was great for what it was! They downplayed the whole "wild west" angle, which was great to see on the screen. I forget Chiwetel Eliofor's character name, but man was that guy creepy as a villain (which set a great atmosphere to begin with)
The two things I hated about the movie:
1. Walsh died. The death of Book sucked bad enough, and I liked his character being a man of God and all. But why did they have to ram it to us twice? Their victory was still a defeat even after all is said and done.
2. I felt Chiwetel's character was way too damn powerful for Mal to take him on, one on one. The whole thing about his damaged nerve on the side of his body was too contrived, almost Deus Ex Machina. I think I would have enjoyed it a lot more if River had been the one to kick the Operative's ass. Not only would it make more sense, but would have been interesting poetic justice, to have his own creation turned against him. I guess that's kind of Deus Ex Machinish as well, but IMO would have been more satisfying.
I remember watching it in the theater, and there were a total of 5 people in there, me and my bud, 2 other guys and a girl. That was it. I was shocked. I thought the movie deserved more than that.
A
Amaris
Guest
He was simply referred to as "The Operative" for us, and indirectly as an agent of the Alliance for the characters, and yes, I loved his performance. He was the kind of person who seemed sane, reasonable, even warm and friendly, someone you felt you could trust, right up until he made you fall on his sword.
I was upset when Book died. I was stunned when Wash died. The difference between the two is that we had a bit of foreshadowing right before we arrived at Haven and saw the damage. With Wash, though, right out of the blue.
Well, it's a reference to Firefly lore. See, in the episode Shindig, Mal was wounded in the lower right side due to a sword duel he had with Atherton Wing (a smug, wealthy, pretty boy), over Inara's honor.
It did, though I didn't discover it until after it had long left theaters. I think it is a well written movie with quality acting and great characters. It certainly deserved more than what it has received.
I think it would be very difficult to be a committed TNG fan and think Nemesis was anything but a load of crap given the complete disregard for the established personality of the characters and even minimal canon. I do find myself consistently defending Generations and Insurrection to those who hated it, but Nemesis is sort of a lost cause, in my opinion.
A
Amaris
Guest
To me, Nemesis is the result from a combination of:
1] What happens when one die hard/hardcore fan is given too much scripting/story power.
2] A director who doesn't know (or care for) the source material at all.
People saw Nemesis in theaters?
Not as many that saw Maid in Manhattan!
To be fair, Maid in Manhattan was the better movie.
^ Too true!
Serenity bombed in the theater because no one watched the TV show. In all honesty, based on the ratings for the show, the movie was a ridiculous success. Mind you, I'm not saying it was an ACTUAL success, just that it did pretty well for a show that was only on the air for 10 episodes and didn't establish any sizable audience. The fact that Star Trek Nemesis, with 30 some years of Trek history, 9 previous movies, and 5 series, did only marginally better than a movie based on a show like Firefly speaks volumes about the quality of Nemesis itself. I saw Nemesis twice on opening weekend (I had foolishly made plans with two seperate groups of friends to see it with them) and both times the theater was mostly empty. I am glad I went to see it the second time, though, because the handful of people in the theater all decided to just have fun with it and MST3K the movie pretty much straight on through.
Serenity bombed in the theater because no one watched the TV show. In all honesty, based on the ratings for the show, the movie was a ridiculous success. Mind you, I'm not saying it was an ACTUAL success, just that it did pretty well for a show that was only on the air for 10 episodes and didn't establish any sizable audience. The fact that Star Trek Nemesis, with 30 some years of Trek history, 9 previous movies, and 5 series, did only marginally better than a movie based on a show like Firefly speaks volumes about the quality of Nemesis itself. I saw Nemesis twice on opening weekend (I had foolishly made plans with two seperate groups of friends to see it with them) and both times the theater was mostly empty. I am glad I went to see it the second time, though, because the handful of people in the theater all decided to just have fun with it and MST3K the movie pretty much straight on through.
I would argue that of the entire Firefly series, Serenity was the worst thing they did. Having that that, the series was so good that Serenity was actually an enjoyable movie and I agree with you-- but, to me, it served as a reminder that they were rushing in a hour and a half what absolutely should have been a multiple season story arch
To this day, nobody really knows why Nemesis bombed. I've seen worse movies that did a lot better.
It's the film with the worst opening weekend for Trek movies ever (adjusted to inflation).
Spiner blames the fans. Berman blames competition. I blame lack of promotion.
Paramount learned the lesson with ST09. The marketing was extremely agressive on that one (more than for any of the TNG movies, it appeared to me), and tada, best opening weekend. Had they done that for Nemesis, it could have made 40 million domestic in the first three days, before word of mouth would have killed it.
It's simply the fact that no one came to watch to begin with. The famous "general audience" wasn't interested, because marketing was only directed at fans, and most fans were like "WTF do you want from me?" Heck, I still remember that awful ET report about Nemesis where they only talked about the wedding, and about the rings Frakes and Sirtis are wearing, and that Data gets to sing.
And ET is produced by Paramount.
It's the film with the worst opening weekend for Trek movies ever (adjusted to inflation).
Spiner blames the fans. Berman blames competition. I blame lack of promotion.
Paramount learned the lesson with ST09. The marketing was extremely agressive on that one (more than for any of the TNG movies, it appeared to me), and tada, best opening weekend. Had they done that for Nemesis, it could have made 40 million domestic in the first three days, before word of mouth would have killed it.
It's simply the fact that no one came to watch to begin with. The famous "general audience" wasn't interested, because marketing was only directed at fans, and most fans were like "WTF do you want from me?" Heck, I still remember that awful ET report about Nemesis where they only talked about the wedding, and about the rings Frakes and Sirtis are wearing, and that Data gets to sing.
And ET is produced by Paramount.Similar threads
