I would respectfully disagree with you, but that is a topic for another forum...
Nemesis: Why the bad rap?
- Thread starter darkshadow0001
- Start date
Actually, NO. I don't think you understand the term.
"Jumping the shark" is the final, ludicrous incident after which all else is going to be drek.
It comes from the scene in "Happy Days" when Fonzie literally jumped over a shark while waterskiing. In his leather jacket. Truly a nadir moment.
Tony
Was that the one that came out a good 6 months before the movie was released? It was hilarious that people absolutely SWORE it was fake or had been significantly altered prior to shooting, but it turned out to be almost entirely accurate! And the comments were awesome!
If that's the one you're referring to.
I had a copy but lost it two computers ago. His old website www.thefacer.net has expired and the domain is for sale.
No good hits on Google after several variant searches.
No good hits on Google after several variant searches.
Both Picard and Riker have met Mrs Troi Sr many times. Betazoid society is matriarchal. They are about to go into yet another adventure together, but now that Riker is married there will be differences.
It's a very funny line that carries lots of subtext.
That's a valid point, Therin.
I see your points on paper but IMHO it just didn't come across like that on screen. Had they been just talking about Mrs. Troi or Betazoid society then, maybe, it would have been different.
The way it was, to me, it simply came across as an unnecessary chauvinist remark which was supposed to be funny.
That pictorial was quite entertaining (moreso than the movie), but it regurgitates a common complaint about the movie that gets under my skin. When Shinzon pulls himself forward along the pole or whatever it was stuck in him, it's not ripping off a sight gag in LOTR...its an allusion to the fateful battle between Arthur and Mordred, which is actually relevant to the "plot" of the movie.
Well, it worked for me. That bit, anyway.
Only for people who'd never seen TNG episodes starring Mrs Troi, I would have thought. Elaboration would spoil the elegance of the line.
The other wedding bit that a lot of people don't get: I've seen many criticisms online about Patrick Stewart's "bad acting" moment, his "startled expression" and "slurred words" in his opening lines of the film, and them thinking that the whole scene should have neen redone - but the key point here, as at all weddings, the Best Man has simply had one-too-many drinks before attempting his speech. A lot of thought went into the set-up of that scene, but most viewers seemed to miss the point of the sequence's deliberate shorthand altogether.
I often wonder what kind of film "Nemesis" would have been with a different director?
I often wonder what kind of film Nemesis would have been with a different writer.
Don't get me wrong; I don't think Stuart Baird should ever be allowed out of the editing room again for the rest of his career. But I doubt that even Nick Meyer could have filmed Logan's crappy script as-is and given us anything on par with the better Trek movies.
Don't get me wrong; I don't think Stuart Baird should ever be allowed out of the editing room again for the rest of his career. But I doubt that even Nick Meyer could have filmed Logan's crappy script as-is and given us anything on par with the better Trek movies.
I dunno. I didn't mind the script so much, and I enjoyed reading various interviews with John Logan discussing his approach to the film, although any other director (who wasn't so busy deliberately keeping ignorant of the source material) might have demanded a rewrite - and those revisions might have gotten the film closer to the mark for more people.
I would have had someone other than Logan do the rewrite, though. I remain unconvinced of the guy's alleged talent.
I'm unsure how much can be said without running the risk of touching on copyright infringement policies (I would argue the annotation is extremely fair use for commentary, but I'm also not facing any particular legal bills, and will defer happily to the agents of those who are). But, well, if you're looking for good Google hits try such words as ``facer'' and ``annotated'' and ``nemesis'' and ``script'' and ``staff'' ... and if you should happen to find a page listing several mirrors, don't give up just because the first few are extinct links.Kryton said:
No good hits on Google after several variant searches.
My objection to Shinzon impaling himself on the Death Balustrade of Death is that when it hits and supposedly impales him the stick moves by a couple inches, so that it's clearly bounced off of him. It's not like the Death Balustrade of Death impaled him; Shinzon had to at great effort skewer himself for this scene as actually shot.
If it were a TV episode where they had to get the shot in by the end of the day or if I found the movie generally lovable then this would be easy to accept and embrace as part of the quirky charm of necessity or the production as it is, but in this case it just underlined the incompetence going around.
There were too many moments in NEM that could've been good, but were shot and staged in the most boring manner possible. The whole movie reeked of slow, plodding motions.
NEM's biggest flaw in my view will always be that it wasn't fun to watch. A movie can partly dig itself out of a crappy plot hole if it's at least entertaining. The whole film is so labored and sleepy. I guess it was trying to be dramatic and failed.
It's second biggest flaw was it's derivative and nonsensical plot. The motivations and backgrounds of the characters are muddled at best. People show up without explanation or are conspicuous by their absence. The number of plot contrivances is amazing. (B-4, the fight scenes, the little transporter bottle-cap sized device, the seven minute targeting process, Picard somehow breaking his gun, the pointy wall sticks (good for impaling!), the transporters waiting for Picard to leave before breaking down, etc )
Then there’s the more nit-picky annoying stuff, which rather than post again, I’ll just mention. Stupid non-science! Why not?
NEM's biggest flaw in my view will always be that it wasn't fun to watch. A movie can partly dig itself out of a crappy plot hole if it's at least entertaining. The whole film is so labored and sleepy. I guess it was trying to be dramatic and failed.
It's second biggest flaw was it's derivative and nonsensical plot. The motivations and backgrounds of the characters are muddled at best. People show up without explanation or are conspicuous by their absence. The number of plot contrivances is amazing. (B-4, the fight scenes, the little transporter bottle-cap sized device, the seven minute targeting process, Picard somehow breaking his gun, the pointy wall sticks (good for impaling!), the transporters waiting for Picard to leave before breaking down, etc )
Then there’s the more nit-picky annoying stuff, which rather than post again, I’ll just mention. Stupid non-science! Why not?
Fair enough
Actually, in principle I totally agree with you. I hate it when they try to spell out things too much. It's nice to have subtle references instead of in-your-face explanations which make the characters look silly.
However, as somebody who's seen TNG quite a few times (including the episodes with Mrs. Troi) and DIDN'T read the scene the way you interpret it I wonder how many other people possibly didn't.
I'm trying to figure out where the problem is really coming from for me. I suppose part of it may be from the fact that I'm aware of how conservative Star Trek and many of the people behind it can be at times.
Watching the scene it really felt like I wasn't hearing Picard making a funny remark but some of the people who made the movie. And I just can't shake that feeling when I watch that scene.
Another part of the problem may be due to the fact that IMHO many of the characters, Picard most notably, generally feel out of character throughout the movie. It's possible this feeling translated to the scene in question.
Honestly, I think this points to the fact that it wasn't all that well set up. I NEVER got the impression Picard had had one too many. It just didn't come across that way IMHO.
Other actors IMHO have done this far more convincingly if this is indeed what was intended (which I agree is likely). I generally really like Stewart as an actor but in this case, either way, the scene just doesn't come of well in my view.
I think it would have needed more than that. As others have pointed out, I think you'd also need different writers and a substantially different script. The whole premise IMHO is just massively flawed.
If you ask me, a good starting point would be to totally remove Shinzon and the Remans and just concentrate on a conflict between the Federation and the Romulans. There's so much meat there (especially in the aftermath of the Dominion War) that just about anything you could have done with that premise IMHO would have been great.
No offense, but that seems like such a minor point to compare between two vastly different movies.
I mean, I realize the Enterprise (or the primary ship) is a character in its own right, but the ship can't be the sole deciding factor in the quality of a movie. If that were the case, Star Trek IV would be a horrible film.
