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Nemesis: Why the bad rap?

darkshadow0001

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
I've watched Nemesis time and time again on DVD at home, and I don't understand why it got such a bad rap. I saw it in theatres when it came out, and yeah, at that time, it seemed like it could of been a better film, but it really isn't all that terrible. I enjoy watching it.
 
Glad you liked it.

I almost walked out of the theater. For me, the worst of it was that I was bored.
 
I can watch Nemesis. I like parts of it, but overall, I give it a meh because it was very badly edited, and horribly directed. That's being nice.

Stuart Baird is the big reason why I don't like Nemesis overall. After watching the special features, the first words out of his mouth were something about not being able to change the sets. Plus with the recent comments that the cast has made about it, he was a bad choice for Trek. After watching several movies that were written by John Logan I've come to realize that they can't be as chopped up as Nemesis was.
 
Parts of Nemesis are just fine...but overall as a Star Trek movie I think its just plain bad. Its too bad too because it could've been something really special.
 
Just read the last 10,000 "Why does everyone hate NEMESIS?" threads. There is no shortage of reasons.
 
mthompson1701 said:
After watching several movies that were written by John Logan I've come to realize that they can't be as chopped up as Nemesis was.
That proves nothing. Any film with a John Logan script that can actually be considered good has probably been heavily rewritten, or in one case, heavily borrowed from another source.

--Gladiator: Logan's draft fell into about the middle of the various drafts of that script before they finally started shooting. Very little of what Logan wrote survived to the end, but enough that he got a WGA credit.

--The Last Samurai: Heavily rewritten by director/producer Ed Zwick and producer Marshall Herskovitz.

--The Aviator: Very heavily rewritten by producer Michael Mann. While Mann did the rewrite uncredited, Leonardo DiCaprio let this one slip at the Golden Globes during his acceptance speech (thank God for award shows with an open bar).

--RKO 281: Borrowed so much from the PBS American Experience documentary "The Battle over 'Citizen Kane'" that the WGA required that film's writers to get story credit.
 
Okay, I confess. I was entertained by Nemesis. Yes, it was different than the other movies, but I was okay with that. I've seen it way more than once.
 
I saw Nemesis in theaters and that really enhanced the experience for me. It was the first Star Trek movie I had ever viewed on the big screen. However, each re-watching of the movie has resulted in a distaste for the style and overall plot. I can watch Star Trek V: The Final Frontier and get something good out of it every time. Not so with Nemesis.


J.
 
Nemesis was entertaining, but only in the most superficial way. Logan's dialogue is just terrible--Stewart manages to save a lot of it gracefully, but there are whole scenes that are still painfully awkward. His plotting isn't much better--it reads like an early outline for one of the previous movies, only instead of crumpling it up and starting over, he went straight to scripting it.

And thanks for clearing up all the much ado about nothing over Logan, cardinal biggles.
 
Was the dialogue much more awkward than "I hate sand... It's coarse, rough and irritating and it gets into everything..." :D
 
As others have said, I also think there's many reasons not to like NEM. There is, however, one reason for me in particular that basically keeps me from rewatching.

It comes up the moment they pick up a positronic signature (or the likes) and you just KNOW that, yes, they're REALLY going to be THAT supid. They just head down to the planet, have some fun racing around in a buggy for no reason, find what's obviously another version of Data, bring him back to the ship, and have absolutely no hesitation to just put him together and turn him on.

Hello?

What about Lore? What about the fact that they just HAPPEN to stumble upon this android that's spread in such a way that you can easily and conveniently pick up the pieces in just a few minutes.

It's one of those moments were I find it hard to believe that this is supposed to be the best crew in the fleet. Frankly, I think they act like morons here and it just about guts everything else for me.

Whenever I see them receiving that signal I mentioned, I just want to go: "No, no, no! Don't do it!" But it's obviously pointless since they ARE going to do it...
 
I think the editing hurt it a lot. But I liked the movie overall. It's a good movie. If some of the parts were kept in like the scene with Data and Picard talking about how the prototype isn't Data or the end showing their relationship for Data a bit more then it would have been a bit better.
 
Bah. One time was it for me. I shall never subject myself to this piece of dross ever again.
 
It had some good parts. I'm one of the few people who actually liked the wedding scene. Yet the fact that they killed off my favorite character at the end really ruins it for me. They didn't even do THAT well! They could've done so much more with it! There was a perfect opportunity for something that could've brought me to tears but it didn't happen. I remember reading the script for it before I watched the movie (keep in mind I didn't become a Trek fan till February of this year, so this movie's fairly old by then.) Data's death and the subsequent mourning was done so much better in the script than it actually occured in the movie. I actually did almost cry when I read that part, but nothing happened in the movie. I was very disappointed.
 
Five years is fairly old? Charlie Chaplin must have made Modern Times during the height of the Holy Roman Empire, then.

Ah, to be young and have no concept of time again. :p
 
The movie worked better for me on DVD than in the theater. After watching it on the big screen I just felt like something was missing. Here are my nitpicks:

1) The crew looked old. There was very little of the energy from the first three films in the actor's performances.

2) The reaction to Data's death was underwhelming. I also thought Geordi should've given Data's eulogy, not Riker. It just showed how little character moments, or understanding of the character's was evident in the film. (I will say that the reaction shots worked better on DVD. I got to see Troi and Geordi's subtle pain more. And Riker as well. But it was still too understated.)

3) The ending with Picard walking fast and smiling instead of the Enterprise trekking off didn't sit well with me. I liked the deleted ending better, even with Madden. It showed more of the moving on aspect which was one of the better parts of the film.

4) Troi's mindrape. How many times has Troi been mentally violated? I think the Trek writers have a thing for that-and even did it to T'Pol on ENT. If I'm not mistaken Seven got the business on VOY too. It just seemed warmed over and didn't do anything to establish Shinzon as a bad guy. We already knew that. It only served to give Riker and Troi 'cool' payback scenes.

5) Lack of character moments for everyone except Data & Picard. I really wished we could've had a little more interaction from the rest of the crew, and an explanation about why Worf was back, and why Wesley was back in uniform would've been nice too. Also, why couldn't Wesley be back at the Helm for the final voyage? It was a waste of characters, esp. compared to how the TOS was utilized in their farewell film. It's the characters that were at the heart of the TNG franchise, that's why I kept coming back week after week. I don't get this feeling that delving into their histories or referencing past events and using them to progress the characters alienates new audiences. I think audiences are pretty quick to pick up on things and if they have questions, there are a ton of materials-the TV shows themselves, novels, reference books, online resources, etc. that can help them. I mean, when I got hooked into Trek at 14, I went to the library and got books to learn more about it, etc.

6) Shinzon's convoluted motivations. It made way more sense to destroy Romulus to me than Earth. I finally get that Shinzon wanted to prove himself Picard's better by doing something the Romulans hadn't been able to do. But I just didn't buy his beef with Picard. Needing his blood to live, I understood that, but this need to supplant him, I didn't really get. It wasn't Picard's fault that he was created or mistreated. His beef with the Romulans was more immediate and visceral. Earth as target again? Boring. If you got to attack another Federation world, how about Vulcan? Or take it back to Galorndon Core? (I did like the Shinzon/Picard dinner scene in which Shinzon portrays himself as a liberator. I wish they had played up that angle more. It would've made him a more complex and interesting character. The whole 'one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist' thing. But they decided to go the mutated, Snidley Whiplash route with him.)

7) B-4. First of all, how did they detect him a quadrant or something away? Why did no one mention Lore? Lastly, B-4 was annoying and took away screen time from the rest of the TNG cast.

:cool: The elevation of the Remans over the Romulans. NEM was billed as a Romulan film, but yet we got very little of them. Instead we got the Remans, a race we had never heard of before. I didn't mind the Remans, but I think the focus on them at the expense of the Romulans hurt the film.
 
jayrath said:
Glad you liked it.

I enjoyed the movie as well. The story was well done, the acting was "OUTSTANDING". and enjoyed the battles with Enterprise-E of course, but I wish that they had been cut so short on film. Also, the movie great special effects and provided so more back ground to our cast. The movie did has some bad press, needed some extra work but over all it's a GREAT addtion to STAR TREK MOVIES LIST. :) :thumbsup: :bolian:
 
The movie is very flawed, but I prefer it over both The Final Frontier and Insurrection. There are significant problems on the directing front, but what do you expect when you let someone who doesn't understand anything about Trek and it's aesthetic direct the bloody picture. Still, I kinda appreciate the dark look of the film, as well as the extensive battle scenes.

All in all you could say I appreciate Nemesis on a superficial level. However that is not all a Trek movie should offer.
 
Not the best Trek film by any stretch, but I enjoyed it. Not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.
There's been worse sci-fi films, Battlefield Earth anyone? :evil:
 
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