Nemesis - Extended Ending
- Thread starter StewMc
- Start date
^"Balance of Terror?" Really? I'd forgotten that scene. I remember Kirk comforting the lady who that guy was supposed to marry, but I don't remember the walking of the corridor.
Man, I'm glad for the remastered TOS then! 
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
You could edit the end title theme and put it in the front. Start with the opening theme that's there now, and cut just as the fanfare dissolves into drum hits. Edit in that really nice, sweeping version of Shinzon's theme from the end credits and before that fades into the TMP/TNG theme, cut back to the last half of the main titles (approaching Romulus).
You could edit the end title theme and put it in the front. Start with the opening theme that's there now, and cut just as the fanfare dissolves into drum hits. Edit in that really nice, sweeping version of Shinzon's theme from the end credits and before that fades into the TMP/TNG theme, cut back to the last half of the main titles (approaching Romulus).
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
Just thought it should rejuvenated. There's a lot of wonderful comments around here, it'd be a shame if they weren't read again.
BTW, when do you think this cut will come forward, StewMc? I hope you haven't completely abandoned it...
Just thought it should rejuvenated. There's a lot of wonderful comments around here, it'd be a shame if they weren't read again.
BTW, when do you think this cut will come forward, StewMc? I hope you haven't completely abandoned it...
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
StewMc, I've got an idea for the title music. I hesitate mentioning this gem because I quite fancied using it for my own video montage someday.
If you have the Nemesis soundtrack, skip to the End Title score around a couple of minutes into the track and you'll discover this really emotional piece. It ended up being totally underused in the film itself and was just tacked onto the end credits, where no one except those still seated in the cinema would hear it. Although undoubtedly written by Goldsmith for a more heroic Data demise, it still screams 'Star Trek film opening title sequence' to me. Almost as downbeat as 'The Undiscovered Country' title music was.
I'd keep the traditional fanfare which carries through the Paramount logo into the first few seconds of the film, then switch to a starfield with the standard cast and crew roll call. Try my suggestion for the music underneath that. This would delay the Remus/Romulus flyby until around three minutes into the film. I'd also be inclined to stick to music written for Nemesis but switch it around at bit, rather than paste in scores written for other Trek films.
StewMc, I've got an idea for the title music. I hesitate mentioning this gem because I quite fancied using it for my own video montage someday.
If you have the Nemesis soundtrack, skip to the End Title score around a couple of minutes into the track and you'll discover this really emotional piece. It ended up being totally underused in the film itself and was just tacked onto the end credits, where no one except those still seated in the cinema would hear it. Although undoubtedly written by Goldsmith for a more heroic Data demise, it still screams 'Star Trek film opening title sequence' to me. Almost as downbeat as 'The Undiscovered Country' title music was.
I'd keep the traditional fanfare which carries through the Paramount logo into the first few seconds of the film, then switch to a starfield with the standard cast and crew roll call. Try my suggestion for the music underneath that. This would delay the Remus/Romulus flyby until around three minutes into the film. I'd also be inclined to stick to music written for Nemesis but switch it around at bit, rather than paste in scores written for other Trek films.
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
This is exactly what I did, and I think it worked out really well. The details are in the other Nemesis re-edit thread. :thumbsup:
ChristopherPike said:
StewMc, I've got an idea for the title music. I hesitate mentioning this gem because I quite fancied using it for my own video montage someday.
If you have the Nemesis soundtrack, skip to the End Title score around a couple of minutes into the track and you'll discover this really emotional piece. It ended up being totally underused in the film itself and was just tacked onto the end credits, where no one except those still seated in the cinema would hear it. Although undoubtedly written by Goldsmith for a more heroic Data demise, it still screams 'Star Trek film opening title sequence' to me. Almost as downbeat as 'The Undiscovered Country' title music was.
I'd keep the traditional fanfare which carries through the Paramount logo into the first few seconds of the film, then switch to a starfield with the standard cast and crew roll call. Try my suggestion for the music underneath that. This would delay the Remus/Romulus flyby until around three minutes into the film. I'd also be inclined to stick to music written for Nemesis but switch it around at bit, rather than paste in scores written for other Trek films.
This is exactly what I did, and I think it worked out really well. The details are in the other Nemesis re-edit thread. :thumbsup:
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
StewMc, I want you to know that I will WANT the re-edit that you have in mind for NEM. Be sure of it.
Also, I think the extended ending should skip the seatbelt joke, BUT keep the B4 scene intact. The reason for that is, not because I believe it will set a SEARCH FOR DATA movie, but I think that the scene in another way - aside from Picard expressing the paramount truth of Data's role in TNG, I believe B4 is what Data has left behind him. His family, who has memories of him. All of us lose a loved one, but we know that loved one survives through our memories of him and love. Picard and his friends have that, but B4 has something more practical - Data's heritage. You can say he's not like a brother, but rather, a son. Data IS gone, but what the goal for humanity has been passed on to another of his kind - so that he, one day, like Data, begin his own journey to find humanity. I like that premise - a promise.
So, I think you should keep that. Its just hearwarming.
Also, I believe you SHOULD do the credits as nice as you can... Its the last TNG film, it DESERVES something memorable. And ChristopherPike's suggestion is the best idea I've read, so far, regarding a title sequence. With ChristopherPike's permission, you SHOULD use it. Its brilliant an idea. Bravo Captain!
Now, I personal suggestion... I won't say anything about the re-edit itself, as its your own project (I could elaborate if you allow me), but one editing suggestion that you should take into consideration, is about Wesley Crusher: DON'T bring in the scene about him being assigned to the Titan. It contradict the course of development Wesley's character has taken from "Journey's End". He's on to something special, don't ruin that episode's fantastic turnabout on Wesley's life. I suggest, you keep him as a guest to the wedding, but any comments regarding him being back to Starfleet and assigned to Titan should be removed. I think it was a good editing decision, in the end.
Anyway, keep him in the wedding, cut the Starfleet/Titan references. Thats what I suggest.
What do you say?
StewMc, I want you to know that I will WANT the re-edit that you have in mind for NEM. Be sure of it.
Also, I think the extended ending should skip the seatbelt joke, BUT keep the B4 scene intact. The reason for that is, not because I believe it will set a SEARCH FOR DATA movie, but I think that the scene in another way - aside from Picard expressing the paramount truth of Data's role in TNG, I believe B4 is what Data has left behind him. His family, who has memories of him. All of us lose a loved one, but we know that loved one survives through our memories of him and love. Picard and his friends have that, but B4 has something more practical - Data's heritage. You can say he's not like a brother, but rather, a son. Data IS gone, but what the goal for humanity has been passed on to another of his kind - so that he, one day, like Data, begin his own journey to find humanity. I like that premise - a promise.
So, I think you should keep that. Its just hearwarming.
Also, I believe you SHOULD do the credits as nice as you can... Its the last TNG film, it DESERVES something memorable. And ChristopherPike's suggestion is the best idea I've read, so far, regarding a title sequence. With ChristopherPike's permission, you SHOULD use it. Its brilliant an idea. Bravo Captain!
Now, I personal suggestion... I won't say anything about the re-edit itself, as its your own project (I could elaborate if you allow me), but one editing suggestion that you should take into consideration, is about Wesley Crusher: DON'T bring in the scene about him being assigned to the Titan. It contradict the course of development Wesley's character has taken from "Journey's End". He's on to something special, don't ruin that episode's fantastic turnabout on Wesley's life. I suggest, you keep him as a guest to the wedding, but any comments regarding him being back to Starfleet and assigned to Titan should be removed. I think it was a good editing decision, in the end.
Anyway, keep him in the wedding, cut the Starfleet/Titan references. Thats what I suggest.
What do you say?
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
Not abandoned, was just on hiatus for a while. Thanks for reviving this thread, it just might be enough for me to continue work on the project. When will it be finished? Who knows, hopefully not too long away.
Actually one of the last things I did before stopping work on the project in the autumn was do an opening credits sequence almost exactly like you describe (I think someone suggested it previously). I'll try encoding it and posting a clip shortly.
Another thing I was experimenting with was keeping this scene, but moving it back slightly so that it occurs while the Enterprise is still in the rift: this is what happened in the early draft available online. It would mean altering the SFX outside the window, so its still on the drawing board just now. The scene will probably be in the film one way or the other.
Please, elaborate away, I might not take everyones advice at the end of the day, but I always like hearing peoples thoughts!
That's basically what my current work-in-progress cut is: Wesley appears at the table at the beginning of the scene, and that's it. The only part of his deleted scene I've used is the Picard/Beverley talk.
Not abandoned, was just on hiatus for a while. Thanks for reviving this thread, it just might be enough for me to continue work on the project. When will it be finished? Who knows, hopefully not too long away.
ChristopherPike said:
StewMc, I've got an idea for the title music. I hesitate mentioning this gem because I quite fancied using it for my own video montage someday.
If you have the Nemesis soundtrack, skip to the End Title score around a couple of minutes into the track and you'll discover this really emotional piece. It ended up being totally underused in the film itself and was just tacked onto the end credits, where no one except those still seated in the cinema would hear it. Although undoubtedly written by Goldsmith for a more heroic Data demise, it still screams 'Star Trek film opening title sequence' to me. Almost as downbeat as 'The Undiscovered Country' title music was.
I'd keep the traditional fanfare which carries through the Paramount logo into the first few seconds of the film, then switch to a starfield with the standard cast and crew roll call. Try my suggestion for the music underneath that. This would delay the Remus/Romulus flyby until around three minutes into the film. I'd also be inclined to stick to music written for Nemesis but switch it around at bit, rather than paste in scores written for other Trek films.
Actually one of the last things I did before stopping work on the project in the autumn was do an opening credits sequence almost exactly like you describe (I think someone suggested it previously). I'll try encoding it and posting a clip shortly.
Another thing I was experimenting with was keeping this scene, but moving it back slightly so that it occurs while the Enterprise is still in the rift: this is what happened in the early draft available online. It would mean altering the SFX outside the window, so its still on the drawing board just now. The scene will probably be in the film one way or the other.
Please, elaborate away, I might not take everyones advice at the end of the day, but I always like hearing peoples thoughts!
That's basically what my current work-in-progress cut is: Wesley appears at the table at the beginning of the scene, and that's it. The only part of his deleted scene I've used is the Picard/Beverley talk.
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
Now, can I suggest a smart re-edit? In your ending, Riker meets with Picard, then goes to the ENT-E bridge, tells the first officer to call Picard "Jean-Luc" and then Picard comes it. Now, here's how I suggest it: Have Riker in the ENT-E bridge and telling the new First Officer the gag, THEN have him meet with Picard (thus, Riker's exit from the film being that handshake), then have Picard meet with the new first officer and the bridge scene (without the seat bealt, of course). I believe its better told a scene this way, as Riker sees the bridge for the last time, tells his succesor a joke, and leaves after goodbying his former Captain. I think its more effective this way, and it will save you from that transition from the "last dance" scene to the Riker scene. It won't change anything, rather improve the flow, as said. What do you think?
BTW, I do hope you do that credit sequence as Christopher Pike said... It should be great, and mirror TUC, TOS's equivelant for the last film, in effect. I really missed a credit sequence from that film - one of the oddities of the film.
And since you're open to suggestions, I will re-watch the film and give you a better analysis of a re-edit. In the mean time, why don't you join the re-edit thread I made?
Good luck with your project!
Glad to hear that!
Excellent. I just thought "Journey's End" gave a pretty good finale to Wesley's character without having to obligate him to return to Starfleet. I think Moore did an excellent decision regarding Wesley - he went off to become something truly special. Perhaps an instrument for evolving life, or a God-like creature - who knows? Anyway, its also good you keep him in the table. He would be there, regardless of what might he was doing at the time.
Now, can I suggest a smart re-edit? In your ending, Riker meets with Picard, then goes to the ENT-E bridge, tells the first officer to call Picard "Jean-Luc" and then Picard comes it. Now, here's how I suggest it: Have Riker in the ENT-E bridge and telling the new First Officer the gag, THEN have him meet with Picard (thus, Riker's exit from the film being that handshake), then have Picard meet with the new first officer and the bridge scene (without the seat bealt, of course). I believe its better told a scene this way, as Riker sees the bridge for the last time, tells his succesor a joke, and leaves after goodbying his former Captain. I think its more effective this way, and it will save you from that transition from the "last dance" scene to the Riker scene. It won't change anything, rather improve the flow, as said. What do you think?
BTW, I do hope you do that credit sequence as Christopher Pike said... It should be great, and mirror TUC, TOS's equivelant for the last film, in effect. I really missed a credit sequence from that film - one of the oddities of the film.
And since you're open to suggestions, I will re-watch the film and give you a better analysis of a re-edit. In the mean time, why don't you join the re-edit thread I made?
Not at all. I figured I would trigger general interest, and its more fortunate that you are willing to go on to complete your re-edit. I trust it will be a much better rendition of the final story of TNG (on screen).
Good luck with your project!
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
Okay, here is my attempt at the opening credits for Nemesis. I've used the large credits from the end of the film, and overlaid them onto the moving starfield from the overture at the start of The Motion Picture (which is played in reverse). I've also moved the Courage fanfare back so it plays over the Paramount logo like in FC and INS, followed on by the middle-eight of the end credits. The "Star Trek Nemesis" title is photoshopped using letters from cast names.
Needs some work, including adding "Paramount Pictures Presents", and fixing a few bugs here and there. I had to cut part of the music to fit the time, and also watch out for the dodgy zooming bitmap of Remus during and after Baird's name.
Okay, here is my attempt at the opening credits for Nemesis. I've used the large credits from the end of the film, and overlaid them onto the moving starfield from the overture at the start of The Motion Picture (which is played in reverse). I've also moved the Courage fanfare back so it plays over the Paramount logo like in FC and INS, followed on by the middle-eight of the end credits. The "Star Trek Nemesis" title is photoshopped using letters from cast names.
Needs some work, including adding "Paramount Pictures Presents", and fixing a few bugs here and there. I had to cut part of the music to fit the time, and also watch out for the dodgy zooming bitmap of Remus during and after Baird's name.
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
^^
Nice work, StewMc. The timing of the music seems just a little bit off in the beginning, besides the other problems you've listed. I hope you can work them out-- this project is really shoring up to be much better than I had expected. You might change my opinion of the film around, actually.
^^
Nice work, StewMc. The timing of the music seems just a little bit off in the beginning, besides the other problems you've listed. I hope you can work them out-- this project is really shoring up to be much better than I had expected. You might change my opinion of the film around, actually.
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
StewMC, that was an amazing glimpse of what could have been. It works a treat! A few alterations needed, as you say. But it feels much more like a traditional Star Trek opening sequence, building an anticipation like TMP, TUC and First Contact did. In my opinion, Baird really shot himself in the foot by disregarding that, in favour of going straight for the Romulan Senate and some unexciting political debate. Just seconds after Paramount logo, it came off giving the wrong first impression. You'd think he'd have spotted a successful formula after viewing the previous movies.
StewMC, that was an amazing glimpse of what could have been. It works a treat! A few alterations needed, as you say. But it feels much more like a traditional Star Trek opening sequence, building an anticipation like TMP, TUC and First Contact did. In my opinion, Baird really shot himself in the foot by disregarding that, in favour of going straight for the Romulan Senate and some unexciting political debate. Just seconds after Paramount logo, it came off giving the wrong first impression. You'd think he'd have spotted a successful formula after viewing the previous movies.
Re: Nemesis - Extended Edition
Interesting idea. I'll certainly experiment to see if all the shots are available to pull it off.
See my above post for a link (I actually didn't see your post until now since we must have been typing at the same time!).
Thanks to everyone for the comments, already working on tweaking the credits.
Interesting idea. I'll certainly experiment to see if all the shots are available to pull it off.
See my above post for a link (I actually didn't see your post until now since we must have been typing at the same time!).
Thanks to everyone for the comments, already working on tweaking the credits.
Re: Nemesis - Extended (maybe) Edition
Here's a slightly revised version (same link as before) of the titles. Not a huge difference so might not be worth the download, the only changes are the addition of a "Paramount Pictures Presents" logo (I've tried to get it to match the rest of the credits, think its pretty close), some changes in music cutting, and some improvements to my own "CGI" (in a very loose sense of the term). The seam between the end of the credits and the original movie footage of Remus is far from perfect though.
Also, I've kept the entire piece of music this time by slowing down the credits, making them a rather long 3 and a half minutes.
Here's a slightly revised version (same link as before) of the titles. Not a huge difference so might not be worth the download, the only changes are the addition of a "Paramount Pictures Presents" logo (I've tried to get it to match the rest of the credits, think its pretty close), some changes in music cutting, and some improvements to my own "CGI" (in a very loose sense of the term). The seam between the end of the credits and the original movie footage of Remus is far from perfect though.
Also, I've kept the entire piece of music this time by slowing down the credits, making them a rather long 3 and a half minutes.
Re: Nemesis - Extended (maybe) Edition
I think what needs to happen is that you need to fade from your starfield to the zoom through the planets a bit slower. Your stars just disappear while the planet is already rather large on the screen. It's jarring because we see the planet first, and then suddenly these stars pop in around it. Are you masking out the stars around the planet at first, and then letting the full shot take over?
I think what needs to happen is that you need to fade from your starfield to the zoom through the planets a bit slower. Your stars just disappear while the planet is already rather large on the screen. It's jarring because we see the planet first, and then suddenly these stars pop in around it. Are you masking out the stars around the planet at first, and then letting the full shot take over?
