Oops!I think this thread is getting dangerously close to SNW spoiler territory
NCC -1701 (TOS).....
- Thread starter Dar70
- Start date
I could get behind this. I could really get behind this. This reboots TOS nicely. After SNW give us a new TOS series. Temporal War shenanigans results in different stories. Different events. A fresh TOS where writers can retell their stories in new ways. Nomad is V'ger. Sybock creates his cult during the 5 year mission. Nero uses an industrial drilling starship and destroys Romulus. Dr. Soong is a protege of Roger Kirby.
We could see a reboot and retelling of every series. All this has happened before, and all this will happen again. What is, is. What was, was. What will be was but will be again. Lather rinse, repeat.
That’s a pretty good layout. Me, I tend to believe the last bit. That it’s all slightly different timelines all unfolding next to each other. It lines up with the TNG S7 episode “Parallels” with Worf experiencing different timelines with differences as small as the flavor of Worfs cake to something as big as the Bajorans over throwing Cardassia and becoming baddies.
that also lines up with at least the TOS version of the mirror verse.
agree to disagree then. I look at something like Pike’s ready room and quarters or Main Engineering and compare them to their counterparts on the E-D (for example) and they are just so much bigger and more advanced looking, especially in the case of the Engine Room.
I will say in hindsight that I did speak a bit too soon. They do seem on par with the nu-Stargazer and Titan/E-G. In any case, still more advanced than the E-D and E-E.
This is going to sound crazy, but the thing that drives me nuts about the "Discoprise" is the sweptback nacelles. I understand that's really nitpicky and just my own bias, but I think I would love it so much more if the nacelle struts were straight like TOS because it would feel more like an update of the TOS model instead of a mismash of design elements between the NX-01 Enterprise, TOS, and the movie era.
As far as whether dated designs matter, I can understand the view that if you're trying to appeal to new viewers that you can't have cardboard sets out of the 1960s. But, beyond that, I find the arguments about the "dated" look of the various previous series to be weird from a fan/story perspective. For one thing, if people are watching a show called Star Trek, they'll accept the TOS Enterprise because it's part of Star Trek.
TNG, DS9, and ENT all featured versions of the TOS Constitution Class, and I don't think anyone ever goes: "Oh, those weird 60s sets just take me out of the show." It's no different than Doctor Who fans accepting a time machine that's a police box that's bigger on the inside and the main character has a screwdriver that basically has the properties of a magic wand. You go with it because it's baked into the premise and history of the show.
Also, it's make-believe. I don't know what the stylistic choices will be in the next decade, let alone in the late 23rd century. Whose to say that maybe the aesthetics of the 1960s won't be popular again in the 2260s? Also, whose to say that maybe design philosophies change over time? Maybe later in the 23rd century, the people in charge of starship design favor buttons and switches over touchscreen panels?
Here in the real world studies have shown that buttons and switches are safer than touchscreen panels when operating a vehicle. Maybe whomever was in charge of Starfleet during Kirk's era thought starships needed dedicated controls, before they moved on to working on the "consoles with exploding rocks" problem.
As far as whether dated designs matter, I can understand the view that if you're trying to appeal to new viewers that you can't have cardboard sets out of the 1960s. But, beyond that, I find the arguments about the "dated" look of the various previous series to be weird from a fan/story perspective. For one thing, if people are watching a show called Star Trek, they'll accept the TOS Enterprise because it's part of Star Trek.
TNG, DS9, and ENT all featured versions of the TOS Constitution Class, and I don't think anyone ever goes: "Oh, those weird 60s sets just take me out of the show." It's no different than Doctor Who fans accepting a time machine that's a police box that's bigger on the inside and the main character has a screwdriver that basically has the properties of a magic wand. You go with it because it's baked into the premise and history of the show.
Also, it's make-believe. I don't know what the stylistic choices will be in the next decade, let alone in the late 23rd century. Whose to say that maybe the aesthetics of the 1960s won't be popular again in the 2260s? Also, whose to say that maybe design philosophies change over time? Maybe later in the 23rd century, the people in charge of starship design favor buttons and switches over touchscreen panels?
Here in the real world studies have shown that buttons and switches are safer than touchscreen panels when operating a vehicle. Maybe whomever was in charge of Starfleet during Kirk's era thought starships needed dedicated controls, before they moved on to working on the "consoles with exploding rocks" problem.
Oh, I dunno about that. Look at the Engine room of the Titanic. Great big, cavernous space filled with exposed machinery. Then look at the engine room of a much larger modern cruise ship. Much smaller and tighter space.
I find the engine room of the SNW Enterprise looks far more primitive than the Engine rooms from the likes of the Ent-D, E, Voyager, etc.
I've always thought the problem with the super smooth hull of the TOS Enterprise is that it begs comparison with her contemporaries of the era. To a segment ofvthe population, that smooth look will always scream "cheesey 50's/60's scifi."
That’s how I roll with it, there are big differences between TOS and TNG-ENT that I find harder to rectify than the Gorn thing of SNS/TOS, it’s just that we’ve had 30+ years to paper over the cracks in our minds.
I think the difference is that it’s one thing to visit for an episode that’s goofing on TOS, but a different thing to try and set an entire modern series there.
When Tesla makes a flying saucer, let me know.
Well, they're making a rocket ship that looks like something out of Flash Gordon. Not nearly as sophisticated and greebly as the Saturn V.
Fair enough, but it still doesn't change the fact that the Enterprise looks every bit like something designed in the early 1960's. It's literally a flying saucer with some added bits. I love the damned thing to pieces, but it would look ridiculous seeing it regularly in 4k. It was designed to look good on 60's TV's.
The absolute nail in the coffin for the TOS Enterprise was the NX-01. The fact you can draw a straight line from the NX-01, to the "Discoprise," and go right to the the TMP Refit is proof enough. I'm sorry, but in the game of Which one of these things is not like the other? The TOS Enterprise is the odd one out.
From TrekMovie's article on the design process of the Discoprise:
Eaves began the process by producing a series of ten sketches to illustrate how the classic ship could be altered. Eaves wanted to streamline the Enterprise to give it the sleek, Discovery look, yet keep the form as close to the original. As the team was aware that the Enterprise they were designing for Discovery—set in 2256—would be the same commanded by Captain James T. Kirk in The Original Series. They theorized ways their version could be refitted over the years to become the 2266 Enterprise. Their theory was that various components of the ship, such as the warp nacelles and impulse engines, would be swapped out over time, so the team set out to design primitive versions of them.
Also, I thought it was interesting that in the Lower Decks crossover episode with Strange New Worlds, the altered intro hews closer to the TOS design of the Enterprise when it comes to hull color and smoothness of the hull than the live-action version.
I think this thread is getting dangerously close to SNW spoiler territory
Indeed.
Are you meaning the phy model? As we've seen in modern Trek, the basic design elements of a saucer main hull, cylinder secondary hull and 2 nacelle on struts is still in use. So the question is, is it possible to make the TOS Enterprise look good in 4k to modern audiences while still retaining the smooth aesthetic of the original model?
I think that ship has long sailed. Nevermind the fact the ship is significantly larger, to go from what we see in SNW, to a TOS aesthetic, then go to the refit, would be somewhat ridiculous.
The SNW Enterprise is already alot closer to the TOS hull colour than alot of people realize.
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Just the fact that SNW introduced those huge honking windows on the front of the saucer, making the ship look even less like the TOS Enterprise, makes me think that any intention they might have had to morph the ship over time to what we see in TOS has gone out the window.
On screen (at least in the non-remastered version of TOS we’ve seen for the last 50 years), the Enterprise had much more of a bluish-gray tint than the silver we see on the Discoprise.
That's just it, the Enterprise isn't silver. She's infact very gray. It's just difficult to tell from the way they like the CGI.
Occasionally, they put enough light on the model that her "true colours" are able to shine through.
There's also this larger scale model that has traveled around as a bit of an exhibit. No idea who made it, but being it travels around in an official capacity as part of an official showcase, I think it's safe to assume whoever made it had access to her CGI model and colour choices for reference.
When I built my own model I used this ship as my primary reference. I think I got pretty close AND I used the exact same base colour that I used for my 1/1000 scale TOS Enterprise.
Well then what is wrong with adding some texture to the hull if the TOS??? I mean there are indeed grid lines we just cannot see them in the show. Make them more apparent, add some plating but keep the size and shape exactly as what was on TOS. If the smoothness is what is making it look 50's/60's that is easily remedied.(I think Picard season 3 has the constitution with a bit more hull detail)
And again....I really like the SNW Enterprise. But it didn't have to be made twice as big. With hallways that they could play soccer in...lol
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It is. And really I felt that start with TMP. The TMP refit felt like a much different ship and was treated as a much different ship and did not have the same general feel to it as the TOS Enterprise. It made TOS stand out quite oddly. The uniform change was another, with the more muted tones harkening back to the Cage than anything in TOS.
With the movement towards the Excelsior, then the Galaxy Class, and then the NX-01 the lineage feels very different.
TOS may be the icon for pop culture but that doesn't mean it fits with everything that came after it.
