Re: ncc-1979. someone always gets there first. not binding on its use but,,,,
NCC -1701 (TOS).....
- Thread starter Dar70
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Any discussion over the look of the Enterprise vs Discoprise is always going to be subjective.
To me the TOS Enterprise is the definitive version of the ship. It’s the first and the most recognized and it’s my favorite. And to me it doesn’t look dated at all.
I love the Discoprise too but it has always felt to me like an alternate universe ship. Not quite as radical a departure as the JJprise but alternate none the less.
To me the TOS Enterprise is the definitive version of the ship. It’s the first and the most recognized and it’s my favorite. And to me it doesn’t look dated at all.
I love the Discoprise too but it has always felt to me like an alternate universe ship. Not quite as radical a departure as the JJprise but alternate none the less.
I feel similarly, that TOS is its own standalone thing, which to me makes it stand head and shoulders above all the rest. The other shows can do whatever they want, which may or may not be consistent with the original and true Star Trek. That stuff doesn't really matter, so it doesn't affect how I understand the context of TOS itself as a self-contained series, and I'm not too bothered by it.
Kor
I agree that TOS feels like a stand alone, but IMO rather the reverse when it comes to style and substance. It's almost like TOS is a prototype of what Star Trek is, or should be, not only because the visuals are dated now but also much of the sensibilities. Hence why Strange New Worlds is my favorite Star Trek anything ever: It seamlessly serves as a prequel to TMP, TNG, and the rest, while taking the best parts of TOS (the iconic setting of the ORIGINAL USS Enterprise in her heydey) and updating them for modern audiences. I can totally see the SNW Enterprise being the ship that gets refitted into the TMP ship, just as easily as I can picture SNW taking place in the same shared universe as TMP and everything after. TOS never seemed to fit with the TMP and after crowd, which sadly makes it tough for me to truly enjoy and take seriously as someone whose introduction to STAR TREK was TNG.
See this is where it gets subjective.
I’m the opposite, I look at Disco and SNW and think “how could the refit, the Excelsior, Ambassador class, etc…all evolve from this Enterprise”. At least internally both it and Discovery look more advanced than anything we’d seen in previous series/movies up until Disco went to the 32nd Century.
The TOS Enterprise was already 20 years old when Kirk took command and 25 when it put in for a keel up rebuild/refit. We don’t know what the bulk of the fleet looked like around the time Kirk brought her home. Maybe they missed a few minor refits because they were out so far and that would have bridged the gap better between Turnabout Intruder and TMP.
I’m the opposite, I look at Disco and SNW and think “how could the refit, the Excelsior, Ambassador class, etc…all evolve from this Enterprise”. At least internally both it and Discovery look more advanced than anything we’d seen in previous series/movies up until Disco went to the 32nd Century.
The TOS Enterprise was already 20 years old when Kirk took command and 25 when it put in for a keel up rebuild/refit. We don’t know what the bulk of the fleet looked like around the time Kirk brought her home. Maybe they missed a few minor refits because they were out so far and that would have bridged the gap better between Turnabout Intruder and TMP.
Beta canon. Meh. JJ, Kurtsman era, and several illustrious members here keep telling us continuity doesn't matter, just the broad strokes. We can all have 1979 be whatever ship we want.
If anyone complains, we'll say they're all different universes.
Except TNG now looks dated compared to SNW and Picard . They went from huge bridges and large view screens that were windows...to smaller Carpeted department store decor and smaller viewscreens and then back again by Picard season 1. So now you can no longer take TNG seriously....
Preaching to the choir here.
Is there a reason why it should matter so much?
Here's the timeline:
Pre-ENT (Eugenics Wars happen in the 1990s)
ENT (though I prefer to skip this one)
TOS
TNG
DS9
VOY
PIC
-- Temporal War happens, there are changes, back to the beginning! --
Pre-ENT (Eugenics Wars happen in the 21st Century)
ENT (if we must, I'll fix some coffee so I don't doze off... )
DSC S1-S2 (takes place during a mid-23rd Century that was changed by the Temporal War)
SNW (continues from early-DSC)
"TOS" (some new hypothetical version where Kirk looks like Jim Carey)
TNG through PIC (99+% the same as before)
-- Temporal War ends, time-travel is banned, kinks might have been worked out, but continuing onward! --
DSC S3-S5
Easy. Done.
Or you can take the Everything, Everywhere, All At Once approach and say different versions are unfolding at the same time! Someone somewhere was probably wondering how long it would take me to work in EEAAO once I watched it. Now you have your answer!
Pre-ENT (Eugenics Wars happen in the 1990s)
ENT (though I prefer to skip this one)
TOS
TNG
DS9
VOY
PIC
-- Temporal War happens, there are changes, back to the beginning! --
Pre-ENT (Eugenics Wars happen in the 21st Century)
ENT (if we must, I'll fix some coffee so I don't doze off... )
DSC S1-S2 (takes place during a mid-23rd Century that was changed by the Temporal War)
SNW (continues from early-DSC)
"TOS" (some new hypothetical version where Kirk looks like Jim Carey)
TNG through PIC (99+% the same as before)
-- Temporal War ends, time-travel is banned, kinks might have been worked out, but continuing onward! --
DSC S3-S5
Easy. Done.
Or you can take the Everything, Everywhere, All At Once approach and say different versions are unfolding at the same time! Someone somewhere was probably wondering how long it would take me to work in EEAAO once I watched it. Now you have your answer!
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Nah....I'm not gonna look at it that way....
Still I think the NCC 1701 is the best looking ship after all these years......and it was made 60 years ago. Pretty good imo. I just wish we had someone who could have done it right for the remastered BRDs ..oh well....
Good way to look at it. Though any show that references TOS like TNG/DS9/VOY/ENT and even Picard and the TNG movies is all one big story to me. The other shows while I can enjoy them exist outside of that continuity for me.
But back to what my thread was about. I still think the Exterior of the TOS ship is the best. It doesn't look archaic and can be used today with no issues. Except with maybe a slight update on interior. Same layout (and size) just more texture and stenciled wall markings instead of 60's name plates....
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TOS connie is one of my favourite designs, I have several models of it, and that cutaway diagram hanging above my bed.
But it does not fit in a modern TV show. It ruined my suspension of disbelief in Enterprise, it would take me out of it in DSC/SNW.
But it does not fit in a modern TV show. It ruined my suspension of disbelief in Enterprise, it would take me out of it in DSC/SNW.
I disagree completely. Maybe more advanced than TOS to ST5, but not ST6 onwards
I'm just so glad the war ended right before I could've been drafted.Nah....I'm not gonna look at it that way....
I'm pretty sure no one ever decided not to watch a show because of the design of the ship. I couldn't stand the NX-01 design and yet I still watched ENT (at least until the third season, but by then the issues I had with the show went far, far beyond the design of the ship.)
If a modern Trek production used the TOS Connie (you know, like what PIC just did), it wouldn't change anyone's decision whether to tune into that show or not.
Everything about DSC and SNW looks more advanced than anything that came before it. Especially the films and Berman Trek. Maybe you're just not wanting to see that.
My brothers in Christ, he have holograms TODAY. We have AR today. All these things Discovery season one had which have been swept under the rug to keep fans losing their tempers more than usual.
TNG LCARS is the MS-DOS of touchscreen interfaces. Nothing reacts, you need to type a million keys to do anything in sequence and they're all only labelled with random number strings. My phone is 1,000 times more user friendly and advanced. And I have that today.
Yes, there's an argument to say Trek should remain a 60's period piece vision of the future but it's not what they've chosen.
TNG LCARS is the MS-DOS of touchscreen interfaces. Nothing reacts, you need to type a million keys to do anything in sequence and they're all only labelled with random number strings. My phone is 1,000 times more user friendly and advanced. And I have that today.
Yes, there's an argument to say Trek should remain a 60's period piece vision of the future but it's not what they've chosen.
And nobody said there was anything wrong with that. Just don't also say that it's in the same continuity as all that stuff you just mentioned above, that occurs after it.
That depends how strictly and seriously you want the continuity to be. It's pretty much on par with the old X-Men movies, which is a low bar indeed but really I don't mind because it's a television show? If I can suspend my disbelief for Boimler and Mariner jumping through a portal to live action I can deal with the Enterprise looking different and Pike having a FAR nicer bed.
DSC is my favorite Star Trek series, I defended it from Day One, I don't want it to look like TOS, I never even wanted it to take place before TOS...
... But I won't say "It's all the same! Nothing's different!" There is a difference. But too many people here have it stuck in their head that "I don't think it's the same as TOS" means "I don't like it!" I like it very much. But I'm not going to say "There's no change!" when there clearly is. That's intellectually dishonest.
I don't even think SNW should be a prequel to TOS. All the women are diminished in TOS, for one thing. You want that happening to the SNW characters? Be honest. No, you don't. For another thing, having so many of the same characters guts all the intrigue. Spock/Chapel won't go anywhere. Spock/T'Pring doesn't work out. Uhura's future is being stuck in the same position for the next 35 years. We all know where Pike's ending up. The only wild cards are Una (who isn't Captain of the Enterprise in TOS) and M'Benga (why is McCoy there if he's CMO?).
... But I won't say "It's all the same! Nothing's different!" There is a difference. But too many people here have it stuck in their head that "I don't think it's the same as TOS" means "I don't like it!" I like it very much. But I'm not going to say "There's no change!" when there clearly is. That's intellectually dishonest.
I don't even think SNW should be a prequel to TOS. All the women are diminished in TOS, for one thing. You want that happening to the SNW characters? Be honest. No, you don't. For another thing, having so many of the same characters guts all the intrigue. Spock/Chapel won't go anywhere. Spock/T'Pring doesn't work out. Uhura's future is being stuck in the same position for the next 35 years. We all know where Pike's ending up. The only wild cards are Una (who isn't Captain of the Enterprise in TOS) and M'Benga (why is McCoy there if he's CMO?).
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