NCAA hands down sanctions against Penn St... wow!!

[Knight Templar]

Although I seldom agree FoxNews "The Five" Bob Beckel, I think he had it exactly right about why the NCAA forced Penn State to forfeit those 14 years of wins.

The NCAA did not want everyone to look at the record for most Division 1 football wins for a coach and see Joe Paterno's name at the top (probably for decades to come).

Paterno's reputation and name are ruined. All the good he did will not take away that for the last third of his head coaching career he knowingly protected a child rapist.

 

[Timby]

Those athletes who no longer "won" will be just fine. It won't affect their careers or monetary earnings in any way, shape, or form.

You don't think some NFL coach might decide to be a jackass and kick a player off the team just because they came from Penn State?

You are aware that playing in the NFL (or any other professional league with a players' association, for that matter) is not a case of at-will employment, like working retail, yes? Coaches can't just "kick a player off the team."

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Alidar, most people don't know the players' names who participated in those games.

Well, I do. Sure I can't name every single one, but I know quite a few. I'm sure there are others who knew names, numbers, and career statistics of these players (including wins by QB or Bowl appearances).

This is JoePa's fault. It's Sandusky's fault. It's Spanier, Curley, and Schultz's fault. Any lamentation by the players about their vacated records should be directed at these men. The NCAA had to send a message here.

The NCAA didn't have to act because this isn't normally what NCAA rules are designed to address. They chose to interpret the rules in a way that covered this even though it's not by any means clear that it is covered.

And you know what? If this were the only way to send a message I would agree that it's unfortunate to affect others but it might be necessary. But it seems that lengthy prison sentences, plus loss of jobs, plus massive negative publicity sent the message pretty damn well. Who would be indifferent about federal prison but deterred by NCAA sanctions?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Who would be indifferent about federal prison but deterred by NCAA sanctions?

A new, unindicted coaching staff who's feeling the pressure to win. When you've got a stable full of throughbreds, pressure is on to keep that high paying job and win by any means necessary. With a room full of FCS level talent, not so much pressure.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Hey, my school is FCS, don't knock the FCS

I think if you're going to feel the pressure to win, you'll feel that pressure even if you know there's going to be NCAA sanctions. After all, you get recruiting scandals every couple of years for this reason.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Yes, but you're much less likely to get fired if you can't win during a probation. O'Brien can't be feeling the same pressure that Saban or Les Miles feels every year. If they don't win, people want to know why. When O'Brien doesn't win, people will know why. I just can't see any way that PSU can realistically move past the stain of this horrific legacy without enduring these sanctions.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Yeah, everyone said that the death penalty would have been better.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how this was an NCAA issue. It's a legal issue and those involve should be (and are being) prosecuted, but there are many of univolved people who worked hard as students who are being punished too. Why should they lose their hard-earned wins because of this?

Generally, NCAA sanctions should be because a team did something that gave it a competitive advantage (e.g., paying money to recruit players) and the sanctions help restore things. But this should just have been a criminal matter, not a sports matter.

It's an NCAA issue because the utter moral depravity shown by Penn State's administration in covering up the heinous abuses by Paterno (with more victims coming forward, from what I hear) casts the entire concept of collegiate sports in a bad light.

This penalty is nowhere near enough. Neither Penn State the college nor any of the administrators, coaches, etc should never participate in ANY sports EVER again. They has proven that it can't be trusted.

And I'd open an investigation into what players may or may not have known and if they should be sanctioned for not blowing the whistle.

Abuse like this is not as secretive as some would have you think. People know (or at least strongly suspect), but don't say anything.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Who does "they" refer to there who can't be trusted?

 

[Ian Keldon]

Penn State as an institution.

 

[gblews]

When you've got a stable full of throughbreds,

That "stable" is not likely to stay full for long, though, in the case of Penn State. The LA Times is reporting that USC is already recruiting Penn State's star running back, Silas Redd. I imagine other schools have set their sights on certain other players.

However, I do agree with the gist of your point; the pressure to win has caused many a coach, player, Athletic Director, to jeapordize their reputations, careers, and in some case, their freedom.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Penn State as an institution.

But that's a nonsensical phrase. An institution is made up of people. If you replaced every single person with entirely different people, would they still be untrustworthy? Say you replace the management with the proverbial bus full of nuns. If they replaced it with your closest friend. Are they still not to be trusted? How is an institution anything other than an amalgamation of the people who make it up?

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Oh, I'm not at all surprised that other top schools are actively luring away the PSU players. The sanctions have made exceptions in this case. The other schools don't have to get PSU's permission. They can go for it. When I read yesterday how "saddened" the ACC coaches were about the sanctions, I laughed. I though, "Yeah, he's standing there at the mic saying he's sad, but he's wondering if he has any holes on his offensive or defensive line that might be filled by Penn State players."

Alidar, I don't understand you. The president of the university himself was directly involved. He did what he did to protect football. These sanctions are more than justified. Why this worry for Penn State? Worry about the kids whose lives will never be the same. Penn State football, unfortunately, will recover eventually. You can't guarantee that for victims who may face a plethora of emotional and psychological problems for years to come.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

They got off kind of light.

I mean think about it... the TOP officials in charge of the program, the president of the university, "Joe Pa" himself, and others, actively tried to cover up the fact that their assistant coach was RAPING KIDS.

They protected his reputation, continued giving him access to the facilities... after which he continued right on raping kids. They didn't just look the other way, they actively covered up to protect the school's football program.

...

I'm honestly shocked they still have an NCAA football program.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Alidar, I don't understand you. The president of the university himself was directly involved. He did what he did to protect football. These sanctions are more than justified. Why this worry for Penn State? Worry about the kids whose lives will never be the same. Penn State football, unfortunately, will recover eventually. You can't guarantee that for victims who may face a plethora of emotional and psychological problems for years to come.

I'm not worried about Penn State since it's just a location with a bunch of buildings. I worry for the people who are or were a part of the organization and who were completely uninvolved in this.

And this is entirely separate from my loathing for Sandusky or my sympathy for the victims and their families. They deserve justice (well, in reality, they deserve to have this erased, but that's sadly not possible). Part of that is through the criminal prosecutions of those involved. All those who were aware are facing charges with the exception of Mike McQueery, who obviously attempted to report it, and Joe Paterno, who is deceased. Another part is the civil lawsuit that will certainly come. With that, it's at least understandable because the money will go to the victims themselves. I'd much rather see the 60 million go to them than to the NCAA.

However, I can't speak for them to know what they want to see happen here. I remember the attorney hired by some of the families said they wished they had been consulted before Paterno got fired because that wasn't necessarily what they wanted. I wonder if they were consulted by the NCAA before this action took place.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Penn State as an institution.

But that's a nonsensical phrase. An institution is made up of people. If you replaced every single person with entirely different people, would they still be untrustworthy? Say you replace the management with the proverbial bus full of nuns. If they replaced it with your closest friend. Are they still not to be trusted? How is an institution anything other than an amalgamation of the people who make it up?

Institutions take on a life of their own, esp a long-lived institution like a college or a corporation. Your putative busload of nuns couldn't change an atmosphere and group climate that was years and years in the making.

Thus it's best just to tear the whole rotten, corrupt organizational structure down, make sure the contaminated waste left over can't infect other organizations, and start over.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Wasn't that what they did by firing everyone? I agree completely with the sentiment, it seems the "start over" part is what others have a problem with.

 

[Gil T.Azell]

Only a four year Bowl Ban?
Should have been 10 years one for every victim.

 

[Ian Keldon]

Wasn't that what they did by firing everyone? I agree completely with the sentiment, it seems the "start over" part is what others have a problem with.

The victims don't get to "start over". They have to suffer the rest of their lives. So should Penn State.

Frankly, I'd like to see the end of collegiate sports altogether. It's nothing but a cash drain and a source of corruption.

Schools are supposed to be about educating the mind, not the modern equivalent of the "circus" part of "bread and circuses".

College football in particular is nothing but a farm-team system for the pro teams anyways.

 

[gblews]

It's nothing but a cash drain and a source of corruption.

Lets not get ridiculous here. I participated in college athletics and to this day it remains one of the greatest experiences of my life. I highly recommend it to any young person entering college. Most college athletic programs pay for themselves, many pay for a lot more than just the athletic department.

Schools are supposed to be about educating the mind,

From my athletic experience in college I learned one of the most basic and commonly used concepts in business today -- teamwork. I learned how important the smallest job can be to the greater whole. I learned about sacrifice and putting your own personal goals aside in order to accomplish a common goal. Now maybe you learned these concepts in a different forum, but for me, I learned them on a college athletic field. Every job I have had since college has required knowledge of this concept.

College football in particular is nothing but a farm-team system for the pro teams anyways.

What's your point? That the pros should not court and acquire college athletes? Is this supposed to further support your belief that college athletics should be done away with? Even if the pros didn't come calling, young people would still participate in college athletics whether or not pro sports were a realistic goal or not.

 

[mimic]

Schools are supposed to be about educating the mind, not the modern equivalent of the "circus" part of "bread and circuses".

Ironically, PSU football has long had one of the highest graduation rates out of any Division I program.

So, I've been rather silent on this subject. When you went to Penn State it seems your opinion can be wiped away with a 'you still don't get it' or the accusation that you belong to a cult, and I really didn't want to deal with that. It's no more a cult than OSU has a cult, or USC, or any other large football-playing university. But I digress.

I feel the collateral damage more acutely than others. I went to the school; I know what it's like to attend classes, go to games, receive a diploma (twice!) and it's like I'm supposed to now be ashamed of everything I ever felt for my school because of the actions of a few men. And it was a few men. The demand that all the good experiences I had should now be tainted just isn't fair. We're no less appalled by Sandusky and the inaction of our leaders than anyone else, but we have that additional dimension to our knowledge of Penn State that just doesn't jive with what everyone is saying. Our players aren't bad people. The men who put on that uniform Sept. 1st deserve support. I am proud of how they are taking a horrible situation not of their doing and making the best of it.

Today I read that the Middle States Commission on Higher Education is threatening to revoke Penn State's accreditation. If that happens, the university is dead. My degrees would be lessened in value. I can't imagine that it would ever actually happen, but still - yet another organization has decided to kick us. I'm sick of everyone piling on, and just wish we'd be allowed to move on and heal as a community.

I'd like to thank anyone who has shown any support to PSU. It means a lot to me, personally.