Nature of the visual reboot

[Groppler Zorn]

That’s just a reboot because those are books that have been adapted and updated multiple times over the years, sometimes with zombies.

A better comparison would be the original Star Wars trilogy and the new movies set around that time. They’ve recast some actors, the props and costumes are far more detailed.

For example, the classic stormtrooper.

Those are just different versions seen in the original trilogy, a lot of variation because they were based on molds.

This is a close up of the details on the new one from Rogue One that takes place right before A New Hope. The painted details on the old are practical and serve a function now.

They made a better costume because the technology had improved. All of these helmet are the same in-universe piece, but look different visually. They didn’t downgrade the suits a few hours after Rogue One.

Ah ok I see the stormtrooper example as being similar to the 6 foot and 4 foot Enterprise D models really - insofar as it’s not as drastic a visual change. I guess what I’m wondering is whether the DSC production team are asking us to assume that’s what TOS always looked like (I.e. it always looked like what Discovery does), or that TOS is now somehow invalid (unless you boil it down to the bare bones of the facts - like Dr Maddox wanted to do to Data’s memories in “measure of a man” - is the essence of the moment lost it we reduce TOS to the facts of the events alone?).

 

[Longinus]

That’s just a reboot because those are books that have been adapted and updated multiple times over the years, sometimes with zombies.

A better comparison would be the original Star Wars trilogy and the new movies set around that time. They’ve recast some actors, the props and costumes are far more detailed.

For example, the classic stormtrooper.

Those are just different versions seen in the original trilogy, a lot of variation because they were based on molds.

This is a close up of the details on the new one from Rogue One that takes place right before A New Hope. The painted details on the old are practical and serve a function now.

They made a better costume because the technology had improved. All of these helmet are the same in-universe piece, but look different visually. They didn’t downgrade the suits a few hours after Rogue One.

This is not really what's going onwith DSC though. Regardless of wheter one likes it or not, the changes in DSC are FAR more extensive than those in Rogue One. R1 updates are really subtle.

 

[fireproof78]

This is not really what's going onwith DSC though. Regardless of wheter one likes it or not, the changes in DSC are FAR more extensive than those in Rogue One. R1 updates are really subtle.

Save for all the new starships and troopers and equipment that exists at the same time as ANH yet had never been seen before, i.e. the U-Wing or Death Troopers.

 

[Groppler Zorn]

The "must look like TOS" argument would be the equivalent of demanding that the 2005 Pride and Prejudice movie must adhere to the exact style of the 1940 movie...

Also, there is a t-shirt generation version of P&P and it's pretty good:

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yeh that’s a good point lol! It would obviously be nuts for them to replicate TOS exactly (much as I’d have loved that haha!), as it would have given the show a decidedly fanfilm vibe - not that that’s a bad thing, but it probably wouldn’t have passed muster on Netflix! The question becomes in my mind (and playing devils advocate), to what extent is the 2005 version of P&P as different to the 1940s version as DSC is to TOS? I’d (cautiously) argue that there is a more radical difference between DSC and TOS than between the various interpretations of P&P (“lost in Austen” excepted!). But... as has been pointed out above, the Austen story is set in an actual historical period rather than an imagined one

 

[Jinn]

I guess what I’m wondering is whether the DSC production team are asking us to assume that’s what TOS always looked like (I.e. it always looked like what Discovery does), or that TOS is now somehow invalid

I think the production team is basically giving us a choice: We can either assume that TOS "actually" looked like DSC or that DSC "actually" looks like TOS, but not that TOS is invalid.

 

[Spot261]

Except that would imply that it's impossible to make a show that copies the visual style of a show from 50 years ago and have the audience accept it. Clearly that's not the case, since both DS9 and ENT had episodes where that was done.

Not impossible, just pointless and hardly worth getting worked up over

 

[Awesome Possum]

This is not really what's going onwith DSC though. Regardless of wheter one likes it or not, the changes in DSC are FAR more extensive than those in Rogue One. R1 updates are really subtle.

Maybe I’m just too detail oriented when it comes to costumes and props since I got into replicas. I can spot the difference across the room now.

 

[F. King Daniel]

A better comparison would be the original Star Wars trilogy and the new movies set around that time. They’ve recast some actors, the props and costumes are far more detailed.

One could argue that the Discovery phaser and communicator have been upgraded thusly, but then we get this:

Being swapped out with this:

Which are in no way an upgrade reflecting modern visual techniques. It's deliberate choice to completely reimagine the Klingons and their technology from scratch.

Anyone who watches Trek for the ships/technology and continuity is utterly screwed.

 

[Longinus]

One could argue that the Discovery phaser and communicator have been upgraded thusly, but then we get this:

Being swapped out with this:

Which are in no way an upgrade reflecting modern visual techniques. It's deliberate choice to completely reimagine the Klingons and their technology from scratch.

Anyone who watches Trek for the ships/technology and continuity is utterly screwed.

Yep. I really don't think this is comparable to changing the small black stripes on Stormtrooper helmets into actual vents...

 

[Awesome Possum]

One could argue that the Discovery phaser and communicator have been upgraded thusly, but then we get this:

Being swapped out with this:

Which are in no way an upgrade reflecting modern visual techniques. It's deliberate choice to completely reimagine the Klingons and their technology from scratch.

Anyone who watches Trek for the ships/technology and continuity is utterly screwed.

What makes you assume that there aren’t multiple designs for Klingon ships and the name given to them was an Earth name that is meaningless in Klingon because it lacks enough details?

Like how a Tesla and a Pinto are “cars”.

 

[Spot261]

I'm pretty sure D7 isn't Klingon....

 

[matthunter]

There used to be a poster here (Asyncritus) who was heavily into epistemological theory - the idea that we are each perceiving our own universe and thus there can be no such thing as, say, the colour "red" because what's red to me might be turquoise to you, and what I see as a Klingon battlecruiser might actually look like a small squirrel to someone else.

Arguments with him were quite tiresome, as you can imagine, but if you wanna go with the idea, then just pretend that TOS was one way of perceiving the story, and DSC is another.

 

[matthunter]

I'm pretty sure D7 isn't Klingon....

It's a D'sevhan, you petaQ!!!

 

[Nerys Myk]

A good analogy could be comics: Here's the cover of The Silver Surfer #98 from November 1994, next to the cover of The Secret Defenders #9, from the same month:

As you can see the Surfer look veeery different on these two covers, but no character acknowledges this and it isn't a plot point, it's just the different ways the character is drawn by different artists, while still being part of the same continuity.

Also The Secret Defenders #9 is fucking hideous!

This might be a better analogy

 

[F. King Daniel]

What makes you assume that there aren’t multiple designs for Klingon ships and the name given to them was an Earth name that is meaningless in Klingon because it lacks enough details?

Like how a Tesla and a Pinto are “cars”.

Because that's not the intent of the people who made the show. Not one Klingon ship resembles the originals in a way which could be called a visual upgrade, and neither do the Klingons themselves. They've been replaced with something totally new.

 

[Tuskin38]

I'm pretty sure D7 isn't Klingon....

Well Eaglemoss says the Klingon designation for that ship is ‘Sech’ which means Torch

 

[Spot261]

Well Eaglemoss says the Klingon designation for that ship is ‘Sech’ which means Torch

Which is pretty cool...

 

[Tuskin38]

Which is pretty cool...

Yeah all the Klingon ships in DSC have Klingon class names except the sarcophagus

 

[dahj]

One could argue that the Discovery phaser and communicator have been upgraded thusly, but then we get this:

Being swapped out with this:

Which are in no way an upgrade reflecting modern visual techniques. It's deliberate choice to completely reimagine the Klingons and their technology from scratch.

Anyone who watches Trek for the ships/technology and continuity is utterly screwed.

That's just a cloaking device that makes it look different instead of invisible...

 

[Awesome Possum]

Because that's not the intent of the people who made the show. Not one Klingon ship resembles the originals in a way which could be called a visual upgrade, and neither do the Klingons themselves. They've been replaced with something totally new.

The people making the show are the ones who made a new version. If that’s what the people making the show call a D7, then it’s a D7.