Poll Nature of the First Federation?

Not a baby -- Clint Howard was seven years old when he played Balok. But they put him in a bald cap and bushy eyebrows to make him look like a child-sized adult. Maybe the baldness suggests "baby" to some people.

 

No. Consider....

It is impossible to rob a bank in China and not know where China is or which government runs the country the bank is in. It's clear from TOS that the Enterprise was exploring uncharted space. For Mudd to rob a Betazoid bank (or claim to) he must know where said bank was. Tyler tells the story so matter of factly that he and his listeners knew what Betazoids were.

No. Dax is the slug. Emony is the host. We even meet "Emony" in DS9 "Facets." She is clearly Trill.

Not much credentials to be a gymnastics judge except for knowing gymnastics. How many undercover spies are busy judging gymnastics? It's more reasonable to conclude the gymnastics judges all came from known locations.

Dax said she had a feeling McCoy WOULD BECOME a doctor. Rules of grammar. McCoy was not a doctor at that time. I'm not commenting on why McCoy was at Ole Miss except to watch the gymnastics meet. Yes, he could have lived anywhere or attended any university.

 

No one said the First Federation was an amalgamation of different species.

 

Well, a federation is an alliance of different states. I suppose they could all be within the same species, though.

And while no one said that in canon, I did establish it in my TOS novel The Face of the Unknown. Although I didn't use any existing canonical species as FF members other than Balok's people. I wanted to -- just because I hate it when an alien race shows up for one story and is never heard from again -- but I couldn't think of any species I could establish that about without risking contradiction by later productions. For instance, if I'd made the Betazoids an FF member, I would've been contradicted by that recent Discovery episode. Of course, I didn't know at the time that that would happen, but I knew something like it could happen.

 

A bout of serial disagreement here:

But simplicity itself to rob the Bank of China if it's located in southern London and the robber, rather than being a scholar in things foreign, is in the mistaken belief that it's named after the porcelain or the famous singer of the day. "Bank of Betazed" wouldn't be much of a bank if it didn't have offices all across.

Except when she was running errands in known space, which is pretty much all she did in the first season. Okay, four-fifths of the season. But how's that related to anything?

On Rigel IV is my guess. With local employees.

Or then didn't, and didn't care. It's a story.

And Dax is the Trill.

No, she's a Kriosian. The Trill is inside. Or then not.

It's a different issue that there's also the nationality named Trill. Said nation supposedly isn't racist - people from all species can become citizens.

I wouldn't bet even on that. Such jobs tend to be honorary as often as not.

 

Of course.

You really do not do your point of view service by blatantly taking my comment out of context simply to support an alternate theory.


1. You counter my statement by focusing on a different definition of the word China? Really? It's quite clear from the context of discussion a geopolitical entitity was meant and not a ceramic material type. My comment works just as well had I used Bank of Japan instead of China. Your objection only works due to the uniqueness of the word china. That must be my fault because I allowed the wiggle room. I should have either said a different country.

Yes, location of the bank is irrelevant. It is, still, impossible to have a Bank of Betazed or a Betazoid Bank anywhere other than Betazed and people not know where Betazed is. Just as it is impossible to have a Bank of China (as in the country, not the ceramic) and have NOBODY know the geopolitical location China.

I’m sorry, I don’t see your point here by emphasizing it’s a story. It’s not like Tyler was telling an entertaining tale in order to amuse or entertain. Again we have to look at the context of the statement. Making up a location, using an in-universe fictional location or location that people would not recognize simply would not happen. It would not serve as an explanation. Tyler wasn’t telling a STORY. He was conveying valuable data and intel on Mudd.

No, she’s not Kriosian. You have no evidence to support this. If anything, to use your logic, Kamala was an unjoined Trill living on Krios. The weight of the evidence from DS9 is that Jadzia and Emony and all the other hosts are members of the Trill species. It’s ENT “Precious Cargo” and TNG “Perfect Mate” that are the aberrations.


WAIT A MINUTE! WAIT A MINUTE!


Why do you say Emony was Kriosian? Do we have any evidence what Emony looked like?

 

Kriosians and Trill are not identical. Kriosians' spots are fainter and rounder and are limited to the temples, while Trill spots are more elaborately shaped and run down the neck and body. It's possible they're related species somehow, but they're not the same.

 

I wonder if every member knows the meanings of every name of every bank they have ever heard of. For example, if you hear the name of Barings bank and don't see it spelled do you know what the name means? Could it be Baring's Bank, or Barrings Bank that makes loans to businesses that run bars, or the bank in a place called Baring's, etc.? Possibly some people don't know that "of Betazed" means of a place, or whether the place betazed is a planet or a continent or a city.

 

This gets to a side thing that bothers me. An "alliance" is an agreement between two independent countries that they are on the same side, in a war, say, if one breaks out. The need to come up with names for a variety of alien governments on TV shows has led to using the word "Alliance" to refer to a government.

With "First Federation", they were making up an alien government name. That's all. It could have been "Republic" or "Empire" or "Supreme Oligarchy", whatever. Some governments are federations, the US is Russia is, many are, so fine, "First Federation" it is.

As far as multi species conglomerations, I don't think they'd even had the idea of "the Federation" (UFP) yet!

 

Yeah, the Federation didn't show up until "Arena," and the full name "United Federation of Planets" didn't debut until "A Taste of Armageddon." And it wasn't explicitly established as having nonhuman members until "Errand of Mercy" (although Spock's presence implied as much).

 

Interesting... I'll have to check that out. Gives an entire new spin on the subject. That would just leave TNG as the aberration.

 

The ending of this episode was right out of The Wizard of Oz

 

What about the Terran Federation in Blakes 7? There's is an empire built upon by conquering the former earth colonies out in space and absorbing them into their forces! There are other races in the show but on the whole they all seem relatively human in appearance but their Federation is more like a Mirror Universe or even a future scenario of Trek!
JB

 

Ok... what about it?

 

Not true. It is more likely to be down to differences between individuals, as the Kriosian from ENT "Precious Cargo" has spots going down her neck much like any confirmed Trill (of which the character Christopher linked a picture of is NOT one).

Timo Saloniemi

 

It's easy to make a case that in the context of the episode, 'The First Federation' was just a made-up organization just like that Balok puppet was a made-up alien, the Fesarius was just the small ship and the large spherical vessel we thought was the Fesarius was just an empty shell with blinky lights used as an intimidation tactic, and Balok was just part of a group of diminutive-in-stature aliens who were scared of outsiders and felt the need to test them to see if they're a threat. Because really, if you have the technology to produce monster super-advanced ships, then ain't nobody going to be threatening you, so there'd be no need to test them.

 

^^this - that was my initial mindset to reading the OP. Not all civilizations exist in the same time period, though that could also mean the "First Federation" was just starting as opposed to being the last remnants, or an offshoot from another species or group calling themselves "Federation", etc. Either way, it's still nice to see aliens that are friendly that don't want to eat us. Not that I dislike the 19834 miniseries "V" or anything.

The dude behind the curtain? Then again, Yoda so was. Well, not as much Yoda as the Wizard of Oz in Emerald City trying to look big and scary to reeal the fact that the ruler of it all was unexpectedly small ("Intelligence does not require bulk" as Spock would say to Scotty of all possible people (the technician/electronics expert) in "The Changeling") , or Cat in an early Red Dwarf episode...

 

At the end of The Wizard of Oz only one person got to go home.

 

I didn't get that impression. The only dialogue that would support that would be when Balok stated that he had no crew and was lonely for company. But that doesn't necessarily mean that his people died out.

 

He could be that last member of a lost race of nigh on God like beings who lived outside of time and space watching reality who chose a life of adventure amongst lesser races, stole a starship with capabilities beyond our science and seeks out human companions for company.