My theory on why Kes wasn't a more beloved character. Also opinion on Lien. post-"Voyager."

[Jayson1]

I think one of the reason's she wan't more popular or maybe seen as easier to replace is because I think Trek fans,maybe Sci-Fi fans tend to have certain types of characters they like and emotionally innocent is usually not that type. I think some mistake softness with weakness. She wasn't really a hero, swashbuckling character,neither was she a warrior type or a weird ecentric character as well Neither was she the stoic type which is a very popular trait in Trek characters. She is basically the girl next door, much like Ezri on "DS9" and some dislike that character as well. Also she wasn't in Starfleet which I actually think impacts people's opinions.
As for the actress I think something that surprised me about how bad her life seems to have become after "Voyager" is i'm not sure why her acting career, stalled. She did a really good job in "American History X" so at the time I just figured she would go on and have a solid career, even after being fired from "Voyager."

Jason

 

[Refuge]

I liked her..

 

[unimatrix7]

Does anyone know why she was exposing herself and smashing police cars recently?

Is there any link to that behaviour and the alleged rumours of drug abuse in the early days of Voyager?

 

[Michael]

Please let's not do this again, folks, okay? Talking Kes the character is welcome, but just because some twenty years ago Jennifer Lien the actress starred in a television series we enjoyed, doesn't give us any right to constantly dig up her problems and failings. Please, just let her be and let it go. It's not our right to know and it's not our right to opine on the life of others, just because they once were known to the public.

 

[Herbert]

I've never been a fan of trying to control discussions on a message board. Within certain limits, people should be free to talk about what they want to talk about. Having said that, I have no desire to discuss Lien's issues but I also have no desire to tell others what they should or should not talk about.

 

[SPCTRE]

I think one of the reason's she wan't more popular or maybe seen as easier to replace is because I think Trek fans,maybe Sci-Fi fans tend to have certain types of characters they like and emotionally innocent is usually not that type.

I think the character had two major issues that contributed to her relative popularity or lack thereof:

1. arguably, the lifespan thing was conceptually flawed as a narrative device
2. she simply didn't get a lot of attention/material to work with in terms of writing

(2. is true for other characters in VOY as well, of course)

 

[DamarsKanar]

To me a lot of it is that she didn't bring any particular energy to the cast. In the first seasons, I think Voyager can feel a little sedate at times and with Tom Paris not always living up to his reputation, Chakotay being wooden, Harry Kim being Harry Kim, Tuvok being a low-key stoic Vulcan - in general, I feel like Kes just got lost in a sea of characters who didn't bring major energy to the cast and she didn't provide anything to make herself stand out.
Tom Paris had his moments and had an attitude that was more refreshing than Kes.
Chakotay had the benefit of just being first officer, whereas Kes didn't fit in much because she was neither Maquis or Starfleet. But really it's just, Chakotay outranked her and had a more interesting relationship, or potential for one, with the Captain.
Tuvok was great regardless of not being typically 'energetic' and the best telepathic stuff is with Tuvok, so he kind of stole Kes's thing and the writers did it better with him.
Although, yes, Kes definitely had more potential as a character than Harry Kim (who I don't hate, but still..).

When all is said and done, I think she just never blossomed into someone dynamic or essential. Obviously that's more the writer's fault than the actress - she kind of had to play down the energy. I personally love when she vamped it up for 'Warlord'!

I'm not saying that emotionally innocent couldn't work as a character type. I have nothing against that model and I don't dislike Kes at all actually. But I think within the cast of Voyager she didn't offer anything that stood out enough to merit mourning her loss hugely when she is replaced by Seven, who does actually bring something dynamic and different to the table.

I would add that I think Kes and Ezri are quite different types - what worked about Ezri (for me) is that she was so unsure of herself, she talked too much, she wasn't perfectly adjusted either to her job or her jointed Trill identity - she was vulnerable emotionally but she didn't present herself in an angelic, perfect innocent way - she felt 'human'. Both of course are aliens! But whereas Kes was kind of sweetly innocent to the point of being saccharine, Ezri was innocent in a more relatable way. For me, Ezri managed to inject something different and lively into the last season of DS9 (though I'll admit I wish Jadzia hadn't died) - whereas Kes's absence or presence just didn't make a dramatic difference to the show. She didn't have quite enough impact.

 

[Sophie74656]

Personally I just don't think she was that interesting or unique. In my opinion the only interesting thing about her is the short life span. Everything else about her we've already seen in trek. She has pointy ears, so do a lot of people. She has mental powers, so do a lot of people. She wants to learn and explore, so do a lot of people. I also feel the actress did a poor job especially in episodes like Warlord where she had to show some emotion.

 

[Relayer1]

Personally I just don't think she was that interesting or unique. In my opinion the only interesting thing about her is the short life span. Everything else about her we've already seen in trek. She has pointy ears, so do a lot of people. She has mental powers, so do a lot of people. She wants to learn and explore, so do a lot of people. I also feel the actress did a poor job especially in episodes like Warlord where she had to show some emotion.

Yup - badly written, under written, unapealling character and an unremarkable actress.

Neelix suffered from most of that too, but was elevated almost entirely by the talent of Ethan Phillips.

 

[Prax]

I liked Kes just fine, but can see why the change happened. Seven had a lot to bring to the show; like drama, repressed childhood, identity crisis, acclimating, cool treknology, witty zingers, et al. If they had kept her on the show, we'd be complaining about how Kes was turned into a recurring role. It may have worked out, but I'm sure there were behind the scenes reasons as well, for her being written off the show.

 

[Sophie74656]

Yup - badly written, under written, unapealling character and an unremarkable actress.

Neelix suffered from most of that too, but was elevated almost entirely by the talent of Ethan Phillips.

I don't think it was the writing. I think they did the best they could with her but she didn't deliver. They gave her chances to show herself and I feel like she never really did. As an actress she was also uninvolved in the character process. She said she never put the same effort into her character that other actors did and I think it shows in the characters.

 

[Refuge]

I strongly disagree that the actress did not deliver. She made a presence that added a tone to Voayger, just with her voice alone. The Ocampa was pivotal to getting the whole Voyager ball rolling and Kes represented that species with a depth and innocence that developed into a kind maturity throughout her interactions with the rest of the crew. I was sorry to see her go but would've been okay with keeping both Kes and Seven on board. Kes was for want of a better way of putting it.. nicer. Seven was clinical and cold and to be honest not unusual. Her personality type often could be interchanged with The Doctor or Tuvok. That being said Seven was an addition to the crew and cast. I just don't think it is fair to downgrade Kes in the process. Her gentle, telepathic kindness should not have been a flaw and reason for her to be let go, especially as her growth as an Ocampa was getting pretty powerful at the same time.

Jennifer Lien should look back at her contribution to Voyager with pride.

 

[Sophie74656]

I strongly disagree that the actress did not deliver. She made a presence that added a tone to Voayger, just with her voice alone. The Ocampa was pivotal to getting the whole Voyager ball rolling and Kes represented that species with a depth and innocence that developed into a kind maturity throughout her interactions with the rest of the crew. I was sorry to see her go but would've been okay with keeping both Kes and Seven on board. Kes was for want of a better way of putting it.. nicer. Seven was clinical and cold and to be honest not unusual. Her personality type often could be interchanged with The Doctor or Tuvok. That being said Seven was an addition to the crew and cast. I just don't think it is fair to downgrade Kes in the process. Her gentle, telepathic kindness should not have been a flaw and reason for her to be let go, especially as her growth as an Ocampa was getting pretty powerful at the same time.

Jennifer Lien should look back at her contribution to Voyager with pride.

To each their own. In my opinion she always under delivered and her voice was irritating.

 

[Jayson1]

I think Kes worked best when helping the Doctor, in essence get a soul. To me that was her biggest strength. I do think they should have used her more to explore her culture and less on the physic powers. Just not a big fan of character's with mental powers. We see them before in Spock,Tuvok and Troi but this is usually the least intresting thing about them, unless you want to count mind melds which is something I see as something a little different.

Jason

 

[plynch]

Best. Trek. Voice. Ever.

Were I not married, I would have married her just to have her read to me. Even the phone book. Peace and well-being to Ms. Lien.

 

[Refuge]

I appreciated her voice too..

 

[SPCTRE]

To me a lot of it is that she didn't bring any particular energy to the cast. In the first seasons, I think Voyager can feel a little sedate at times and with Tom Paris not always living up to his reputation, Chakotay being wooden, Harry Kim being Harry Kim, Tuvok being a low-key stoic Vulcan - in general, I feel like Kes just got lost in a sea of characters who didn't bring major energy to the cast and she didn't provide anything to make herself stand out.

That's a very good point.

 

[Refuge]

I just watched Warlord.

She brought it.

 

[stardream]

Best. Trek. Voice. Ever.

Were I not married, I would have married her just to have her read to me. Even the phone book. Peace and well-being to Ms. Lien.

I appreciated her voice too..

To look at her you would think she would have some sort of squeaky little girl voice but because she didn't she managed to give off an air of age and wisdom despite resembling a fairy.

I wish they could have done more with her. The original idea was to have her die as Voyager reached earth (and they played with that idea for Seven) which could have been a good moment but the writers apparently didn't know how to get her from here to there.

 

[Herbert]

Best. Trek. Voice. Ever.

Were I not married, I would have married her just to have her read to me. Even the phone book. Peace and well-being to Ms. Lien.

Agreed. There was a purr (for lack of a better word) to her voice that was very appealing. Overall though, I didn't care for the character. Maybe she should have been the voice of the computer