Agree with everyone on her voice - just, wow!
My theory on why Kes wasn't a more beloved character. Also opinion on Lien. post-"Voyager."
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
Well there is a difference of opinion regarding her voice
As did I, especially when she got longer hair and was barefoot in one scene.
I wanted her to stay on the show and help Seven become more human, and I wanted both of them to be lover eventually, giving Star Trek its first GLBT relationship.
That reminds me to watch Warlord today or tomorrow on Netflix.
Yeah somehow I didn't notice that before (the site can be hard to read on my phone at times) - but, well, I am firmly on the positive end of the spectrum!Well there is a difference of opinion regarding her voice
Off topic but I love your user name
None of them were GLTB. If they wanted such a character, they should have brought that character in from the start.As did I, especially when she got longer hair and was barefoot in one scene.
I wanted her to stay on the show and help Seven become more human, and I wanted both of them to be lover eventually, giving Star Trek its first GLBT relationship.
Not tomention that it would have spoiled everything for those teenage boys who those in charge wanted to attract by bringing in Seven.
Excellent episode with excellent acting from Jennifer Lien!
I had forgotten that Kes inhabited by Tieran is very sexual in Warlord. So 'Kes' (actually Tieran) has a wife who tried to wrap her head around having her husband look like Kes.. He/she (Tieran) flirts with or really acts like a predator going after man or woman. In fact Kes plants one on Tuvok, except it's not Kes.
Talented, beautiful lady. Always loved, never forgotten. Hope she is feeling better.
Hahah thanks!Off topic but I love your user name
I'm curious if anyone has links to Jennifer Lien discussing her approach to/feelings about her portrayal of Kes? Or the writers/producers talking about what went wrong here? I sort of feel like the writers just weren't inspired by the character and so never gave her the right kinds of scripts to shine - but then of course it is always possible that's because they weren't inspired by Lien's portrayal.
I recently read The Fifty-Year Mission: The Next 25 Years but there wasn't much in that on Kes or her leaving the show and I'm interested to learn more about the behind-the-scenes on this.
When it comes to Jennifer Lien herself, she has been very quite about those events. It took about four or five years before she did speak out in some interview about it and then her comments were very neutral and, as I saw it rather reherarsed. Howvever, a couple of years ago she was asked at a convention if she had been fired from the show and she replied: "Yes, I was fired!"
As for "official statements", there have been some of those. Firts it was that "Jennifer did leave of her own free will", then it was changed to "we couldn't come up with ideas for the character" and the typical excuse "mutual agreement" which I see as evidence for foul play, all of that spiced with comments about what a great addition to the show Seven was and the very exaggerated comment "Seven saved the show!"
Yeah right!
As for the writers, they were clearly inspired enough to come up with excellent scripts for the character in episodes like "Persistence of Vision", "Cold Fire", "Darkling", "Warlord", "The Swarm", "Before And After" etc. Definitely more inspiring than the scripts they came up with for Kim and sometimes even Neelix, Torres and The Doctor during those three years................until they all mysteriously and suddenly lost their ability to come up with stories for the character between season 3 and 4!
And I see no reason to object to Lien's portrayal of the character. Her acting was excellent and she really gave life to the character.
What I know of this whole thing, those in charge wanted to bring in a "sexy babe" to attract male teenage viewers. Since they thought that they couldn't afford ten main characters, one had to go. The first choice was Kim. But when a silly inside poll among the staff of a glossy magazine placed actor Garret Wang among "The 50 most handsome" or whatever, those in charge decided to axe Lien instead.
Anyway, the best way to find materiel about this event is to search the net for articles and such. And don't rely only on "official sources" because they are not always telling the truth. After some years in the music business, I know a lot about that.
As for "official statements", there have been some of those. Firts it was that "Jennifer did leave of her own free will", then it was changed to "we couldn't come up with ideas for the character" and the typical excuse "mutual agreement" which I see as evidence for foul play, all of that spiced with comments about what a great addition to the show Seven was and the very exaggerated comment "Seven saved the show!"
Yeah right!
As for the writers, they were clearly inspired enough to come up with excellent scripts for the character in episodes like "Persistence of Vision", "Cold Fire", "Darkling", "Warlord", "The Swarm", "Before And After" etc. Definitely more inspiring than the scripts they came up with for Kim and sometimes even Neelix, Torres and The Doctor during those three years................until they all mysteriously and suddenly lost their ability to come up with stories for the character between season 3 and 4!
And I see no reason to object to Lien's portrayal of the character. Her acting was excellent and she really gave life to the character.
What I know of this whole thing, those in charge wanted to bring in a "sexy babe" to attract male teenage viewers. Since they thought that they couldn't afford ten main characters, one had to go. The first choice was Kim. But when a silly inside poll among the staff of a glossy magazine placed actor Garret Wang among "The 50 most handsome" or whatever, those in charge decided to axe Lien instead.
Anyway, the best way to find materiel about this event is to search the net for articles and such. And don't rely only on "official sources" because they are not always telling the truth. After some years in the music business, I know a lot about that.
Thanks - yeah it does seem like it was a relatively messy situation then..When it comes to Jennifer Lien herself, she has been very quite about those events. It took about four or five years before she did speak out in some interview about it and then her comments were very neutral and, as I saw it rather reherarsed. Howvever, a couple of years ago she was asked at a convention if she had been fired from the show and she replied: "Yes, I was fired!"
As for "official statements", there have been some of those. Firts it was that "Jennifer did leave of her own free will", then it was changed to "we couldn't come up with ideas for the character" and the typical excuse "mutual agreement" which I see as evidence for foul play, all of that spiced with comments about what a great addition to the show Seven was and the very exaggerated comment "Seven saved the show!"
Yeah right!
As for the writers, they were clearly inspired enough to come up with excellent scripts for the character in episodes like "Persistence of Vision", "Cold Fire", "Darkling", "Warlord", "The Swarm", "Before And After" etc. Definitely more inspiring than the scripts they came up with for Kim and sometimes even Neelix, Torres and The Doctor during those three years................until they all mysteriously and suddenly lost their ability to come up with stories for the character between season 3 and 4!
And I see no reason to object to Lien's portrayal of the character. Her acting was excellent and she really gave life to the character.
What I know of this whole thing, those in charge wanted to bring in a "sexy babe" to attract male teenage viewers. Since they thought that they couldn't afford ten main characters, one had to go. The first choice was Kim. But when a silly inside poll among the staff of a glossy magazine placed actor Garret Wang among "The 50 most handsome" or whatever, those in charge decided to axe Lien instead.
Anyway, the best way to find materiel about this event is to search the net for articles and such. And don't rely only on "official sources" because they are not always telling the truth. After some years in the music business, I know a lot about that.
I personally think she was a good actress but maybe they just overall weren't so interested in pursuing her story when they got excited about Seven's character. Probably would have been better off booting Harry Kim (since they couldnt quite pull off his character growth well either) but I guess he got press, so that wins. If it was all about 'sexing up' Voyager then Harry Kim and Seven were the way to go!
its pretty simple. Her contract ended and wasn't renewed. There were no hard feelings, no conspiracies, nobody was "brutally fired" despite what some people think happened. The truth is that it was a super typical hollywood situation.Hahah thanks!
I'm curious if anyone has links to Jennifer Lien discussing her approach to/feelings about her portrayal of Kes? Or the writers/producers talking about what went wrong here? I sort of feel like the writers just weren't inspired by the character and so never gave her the right kinds of scripts to shine - but then of course it is always possible that's because they weren't inspired by Lien's portrayal.
I recently read The Fifty-Year Mission: The Next 25 Years but there wasn't much in that on Kes or her leaving the show and I'm interested to learn more about the behind-the-scenes on this.
From jennifer lien herself:
In an article appearing in Star Trek: Communicator issue 134, Lien recalled, "I was on for a few seasons, then they asked me to leave. They decided not to renew my contract. I didn't ask why I was not being renewed, I just said 'okay' and moved on."
From producer Jeri Taylor admitted, "These things are never cut-and-dried. It's never one thing. I think Jennifer had a wish to move on, and that coincided with some thinking here. There has not been any rancor or unpleasantness about it"
I think their had to be bad blood with the firing because they didn't ever bring her back like Wesley Crusher when he left the show. When they did bring her back it was in "Fury" which seems more like a insult than a homae to the character.
Speaking of which but why is KIm seen as more sexy than Lien? I don't care what that magazine says I think she is more attractive so why isn't she seen as eye candy as well? If they want a male sex symbol just build up the role of Choctay or Paris. I'm sure they could find reasons for them to not have a shirt on in some scenes.
Jason
Speaking of which but why is KIm seen as more sexy than Lien? I don't care what that magazine says I think she is more attractive so why isn't she seen as eye candy as well? If they want a male sex symbol just build up the role of Choctay or Paris. I'm sure they could find reasons for them to not have a shirt on in some scenes.
Jason
Maybe she didn't want to come back
Wesley Crusher came back and acted like an a-hole too. And like Kes, he resolved his issues at the end of the story.
People are always looking for a more sensational answer. However it happened, there was probably more than one reason. I see know evidence to assume that she was mistreated. Maybe one day Berman, Taylor, or Lien will fill in the blanks.
And this whole Kim being fired but wasn't because of a magazine. It sounds apocryphal.
People are always looking for a more sensational answer. However it happened, there was probably more than one reason. I see know evidence to assume that she was mistreated. Maybe one day Berman, Taylor, or Lien will fill in the blanks.
And this whole Kim being fired but wasn't because of a magazine. It sounds apocryphal.
What has been said is that they were thinking about getting rid of Kim when the magazine came out. I'm assuming their reasoning for wanting to let him go was because of his behavior. He was even suspended from some episodes. I know he has been verbal about issues on set like how he was not allowed to direct but I have a hard time believing that knowing that he was a "trouble maker". Those who have directed episodes did a lot of work before to be allowed to direct.
I don't think her character really had much room to be anything substantial. All essential roles on the ship were pretty much taken up! The only way I think Kes could have been given more prominence is if she and Neelix truly coupled-up. Married. What have you. And then her role would expand beyond being the doctor's nurse.
Incidentally... why didn't they ever create a Nurse hologram for the Doctor? Seems like they made a fairly decent attempt at a backup doctor, so a nurse would've been so much easier. Anyway... Kes was the doctor's nurse for a while... and then Kes started venturing off in her telepathic explorations with Tuvok. If she was with Neelix, I could see her working in the mess hall cooking and serving with Neelix. Maybe even going on away missions with him.
But... the Neelix/Kes couple wasn't to be. I think that marginalized her. Jennifer Lien wasn't a stellar actress, but I think she was OK as Kes. It was all about what the writers could come up with. And I think they struggled a lot with this. 7o9 was the "series reboot" point. And, if she was to become the focal character, she'd really overshadow Kes, marginalizing Lien's character even further. So... it made sense to dispense with her. Kes and 7o9 couldn't co-exist.
Incidentally... why didn't they ever create a Nurse hologram for the Doctor? Seems like they made a fairly decent attempt at a backup doctor, so a nurse would've been so much easier. Anyway... Kes was the doctor's nurse for a while... and then Kes started venturing off in her telepathic explorations with Tuvok. If she was with Neelix, I could see her working in the mess hall cooking and serving with Neelix. Maybe even going on away missions with him.
But... the Neelix/Kes couple wasn't to be. I think that marginalized her. Jennifer Lien wasn't a stellar actress, but I think she was OK as Kes. It was all about what the writers could come up with. And I think they struggled a lot with this. 7o9 was the "series reboot" point. And, if she was to become the focal character, she'd really overshadow Kes, marginalizing Lien's character even further. So... it made sense to dispense with her. Kes and 7o9 couldn't co-exist.
And why do you think that this is the absolute truth?
A comment from the all too-friendly and nice Jennifer Lien, stated about 5 years after she was fired when all bad feelings about it probably had wore off and something she didn't really wanted to discuss anymore.
And then we have one of those many "official statements" which has changed from time to time. remenber that when people didn't believe the lie that "jennifer wanted to move", then they came up with another lie about "the writers weren't able to come up with stories about the character".
As for the comment about "her contract not being renewed, well not let us play semantics here. It was a downright firing!
Imagine the followin scenario: I'm building a house and I've hired a bunch of builders to build it up for me. I give them a three-monh contract.
After three months, I renew everyones contract except Joe's. Instead I hire body-builder Sven Hunkstrom who's not actually a better worker than Joe but looks good who will attract the local teenage girls in the area and also give my house-building some advertising in the local media and xtra money to mee from the advertising.
Of course, Joe who have been kicked out will take that as a downright firing and his co-workers too, especially since I've all of a sudden have made Sven the new boss of the building team.
Leagally you can call it what you like, actually it is a firing and not a nice one either. And I'm not referring to Joe now.
I understand that there are many reasons why you so strongly believe in the official statements and of course you are free to do so.
But I don't!
Not only because I'm a fan of the character Kes but also because of my experience with a business which is similar to the movie business I do smell a lot of crap in those official statements and how all this was handled from those in charge..
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