My New Opinion of Nemesis

[Zeppster]

At first I really liked Nemesis till I saw the scenes taken out. Some of those scenes would have made the movie so much better. The one's with Data and Picard really would have set the movie up better. Just like what happened with the scenes from TWOK early on with Kirk and Spock. Those set the ending up perfectly. They could have also came up with a better Data death scene. And also some of the scenes after Data died that were taken out. Those would have shown the emotion better. It seemed kind of like Data died and we are fine with it. You could probably almost say the same about Spock's death but they actually added a bit more to say, "We're gonna get Spock back in the next one." There was not really that in Nemesis. I know the scenes were taken out because of legnth but I wouldn't have minded another 15-20 minutes if it helps the story out.

 

[RAMA]

I still marvel that it gets such a bad rap here. One thing I've noticed is that non-trekkers seem to think its the best of the bunch but many of them did not see it due to poor word of mouth, especially from the dedicated trekkers they might know. Its not a perfect movie, I could have done without the B4 character, and a human clone, but there are a lot of good elements to the story, and the fact that it is the first ST film since STTMP to LOOK like a MOVIE, makes it more than worth watching.

RAMA

 

[Deckerd]

I agree with that. It had a big screen presence you just don't normally see in ST movies. Very few films are perfect and this one doesn't deserve the opprobium heaped on it. It is very good entertainment and that's what it's all about after all.

 

[DarKush]

I liked Nemesis better when I saw it on DVD. However, it's a flawed film. That being said, here's what I liked:

1. Tom Hardy's peformance as Shinzon. I thought he did a good job.

2. The special effects were good.

3. Picard's banter at the beginning felt a little uncharacteristic at first, but on the second go round I chalk it up to the after effects from Insurrection.

4. Troi & Geordi's reactions to Data's death. I missed them the first time. They did a lot with very little.

5. I liked seeing Wesley and Guinan again as well. At least it was an attempt to bring most of the old TNG crew back together again.

6. The Bassen Rift battle wasn't bad.

 

[Joker]

Nemesis was/is/will always be fucking shite.

 

[AJBryant]

elton said:
Nemesis was/is/will always be fucking shite.

Word.

 

[ST-One]

elton said:
Nemesis was/is/will always be fucking shite.

It never was/is/will be!

It is a good film.
Sure there are certain elements of it that could have been better but... for that we will have to wait for the 'actor's cut'

And I really like the little ceremony the hold for Data at the end; the smile on Picards lips when he realised that in the end Date truly found his humanity and had become what he always wanted to by sacrificing himself... I love that moment

 

[cardinal biggles]

Really? I thought he was smiling about the fact that Data's memories had been dumped into Forrest Gump, therefore there was some chance that his friend might live on.

The film was awful. The story was full of holes, Shinzon's motivation was ridiculous, and the script was dripping with fanwank. As bad as Stuart Baird's directing was, you can't pin it all on him and his unfamiliarity with the franchise, because the script needed some major doctoring (something that most "good" John Logan screenplays have needed) before the cameras ever started rolling. The idea that the "actor's cut" will make Nemesis better just doesn't wash. Yeah, we'll get our touchy-feely character moments back, but they weren't all that good to begin with.

 

[Keith1701]

ST-One said:

elton said:
Nemesis was/is/will always be fucking shite.

It never was/is/will be!

It is a good film.
Sure there are certain elements of it that could have been better but... for that we will have to wait for the 'actor's cut'

And I really like the little ceremony the hold for Data at the end; the smile on Picards lips when he realised that in the end Date truly found his humanity and had become what he always wanted to by sacrificing himself... I love that moment

I still enjoyed Nemesis, and it still stands owns it's worth.

 

[Kegek]

My first opinion of Nemesis was 'blecch'. It wasn't a good movie, but it wasn't absolutely awful. I remember mainly being concerned with the fact they killed Data.

A few years later I rewatched it, and liked it a lot less. It's just so... well, the writing's a mess, the plot's a mess, characterisation is all over the board - Picard, normally the strong point of even weak movies like GEN and INS, is a mess.

My new opinion: Worse then I remembered. Why did I waste further time rewatching it again?

 

[Vulcanian]

It was an ok but slightly disapointing film

The thing I didn't like was WHERE'S SPOCK?!

 

[seigezunt]

Vulcanian said:
It was an ok but slightly disapointing film

The thing I didn't like was WHERE'S SPOCK?!

He had the good sense to stay away. Flawlessly logical.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I actually just watched Nemesis for the only the second time this week, and I do admit that my stance on the film has softened a bit. I don't really dislike it anymore (I'll give it 2 out of 4 stars). Sure, there's much about this film I don't like--B-4 and the idea of a Picard clone--but I do think that a lot of my initial disappointment in the film was based on how poorly it did at the box office and that this was supposed to be TNG's farewell?

I still think that Nemesis could have done better with a more simplified story, though. Ditch the Remans, B-4, and the idea of a Picard clone and just have Shinzon be Picard's Romulan equal. I would have loved to have seen fleets of Romulan and Federation starships going at each other with just the Enterprise and the Scimitar squaring off in the end--but that's just me...

 

[Thomas E. Johnson]

C.E. Evans said:
I actually just watched Nemesis for the only the second time this week, and I do admit that my stance on the film has softened a bit. I don't really dislike it anymore (I'll give it 2 out of 4 stars). Sure, there's much about this film I don't like--B-4 and the idea of a Picard clone--but I do think that a lot of my initial disappointment in the film was based on how poorly it did at the box office and that this was supposed to be TNG's farewell?

I still think that Nemesis could have done better with a more simplified story, though. Ditch the Remans, B-4, and the idea of a Picard clone and just have Shinzon be Picard's Romulan equal. I would have loved to have seen fleets of Romulan and Federation starships going at each other with just the Enterprise and the Scimitar squaring off in the end--but that's just me...

I liked the introduction and portral of the Remans. It makes the Romulans more like the oppressive Romans who they are supposed to be modeled after.

The driving theme of the movie is about probing the meaning of what it means to be human.
Does it mean that being Human is to dream and to form aspirations to make ourselves better, and does this makes the choices that we must make along our life's path that we make more clear, or is who we are and become defined solely by whats ingrained into our minds from our upbringing, and are our choices about what we do with our lives shaped by that alone, or is it possible that the answer is both?
Those are the some of the questions that "Nemesis" was suppose to get viewers to ponder.

 

[cardinal biggles]

And it might have gotten them to ponder those questions if the audience weren't too busy pondering whether the movie sucked donkey, llama, or elephant dick.

 

[ancient]

Yes it had a concept, and a 'message' about humanity. But the movie was so half-assed that no one gives a damn.

 

[DizzyMan]

All the way through I was thinking: "Why did everyone hate this movie? This is pretty good".

It was about two thirds of the way through that I started to feel things were going a little downhill. Then, by the end, I was completely disappointed with the ending, and came away from the film feeling pretty disheartened. Especially after the total shock of them killing off Data, with no real anticipation or expectation. One minute he's alive; next he's just dead. And it was all so meaningless.

If I could just change the end, I'd be very happy.

Or, I would love them to do a new movie where this happens… (a little idea I had)…

The Enterprise recieves some strange message/distress signal from a distant location, and they eventually come across a malfunctioning computer on a space station orbiting a distant planet. LaForge is working on fixing the computer (alone) when suddenly he gets it online and is greeted by Data's voice. The story is that while Shinzon's ship was exploding, Data established a remote link with the ship's computers and transmitted the contents of his mind to the only place that was capable of recieving the signal (ie that computer). Also, during the course of the film, B-4 sacrifices himself to save someone, leaving his body more or less intact, but his neaural net burnt out. This allows for Data to have a body again, and towards the end of the film, Data walks down the Enterprise corridor once more, to a hero's welcome by all the crew. And Troi gets naked.

 

[CaptainStoner]

I have similar criticisms of it to many of you. Overall I give Nemesis a B. Or a B4. Like Kirk said, it was fun.
What I don't understand is the baseless trashing of it. I think the unarticulate segment of Trek "fans" have played a role in tanking the TNG film future by creating an ongoing negative buzz around this film that is mostly BS.
Nemesis did have its own bad reviews and buzz initially, and the low box office certainly put a big chill on things. But I think the continued, vicious, sophomoronic trashing of it has contributed a lot since then to ending the TNG films. It creates this false bubble of reality that makes it look as if the TNG fans themselves don't even like the films, and that is simply not true. Go find something else to trash, go get into politics or something if jumping on bandwagons is your thing.

 

[ancient]

CaptainStoner said:
I think the unarticulate segment of Trek "fans" have played a role in tanking the TNG film future by creating an ongoing negative buzz around this film that is mostly BS.

I assume you mean inarticulate, but there's nothing hard to understand about NEMESIS's shortcomings or criticisms. We don't need the thought police telling us not to have opinions.

 

[jimbtnp2]

Deckerd said:
I agree with that. It had a big screen presence you just don't normally see in ST movies. Very few films are perfect and this one doesn't deserve the opprobium heaped on it. It is very good entertainment and that's what it's all about after all.

agreed bet of the tng movies