My New Opinion of Nemesis
- Thread starter USS Valkyrie
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It also didn't help that it had a director unfamilar with the Trek universe as well as uninterested with it. Or like three or four people trying to get their own version of the story.
Admiral Young
Admiral Young
Why the hell did he even make the film in the first place then?
Paramount owed him a directing gig after he stepped in at the last minute to bail out the editors of Mission: Impossible 2 and Lara Croft: Tomb Raider.The Borg Queen said:
Why the hell did he even make the film in the first place then?
It's no excuse, doesn't the man have any professional pride?
Having no respect for the source material is one thing, but having no respect for the art of making a consistent movie (whatever the subject matter), that's just pathetic.
Having no respect for the source material is one thing, but having no respect for the art of making a consistent movie (whatever the subject matter), that's just pathetic.
The movie, from my understanding, was supposed to be the first installment of a trilogy. Because of the poor ratings, that trilogy will probably never be realized.
In regards to what the movie was actually about: It is about change. John Logan had written a beautiful story that was supposed to be about change, about the reality of a military career. This movie was supposed to focus in on character relationships and careers taking their lives in different direction. It's plainly obvious just from reviewing and watching the deleted scenes, which were, ironically, mostly character moments. The most moving scene, imho, of the entire movie ended up getting cut and sent to the bonus features as grainy, unfinished film. It's a scene where Geordi and Worf are cleaning out Data's quarters, both carrying on in a very gloomy silence. In this scene, it is basically a journey down memory lane as you see the quarters a mess after the battle and laying about are a bunch of items that are recognized from the TNG series, posessions that helped to shape and mold him into who he became. At the end, you see Spot climb out from a bunch of toppled furniture and jump into Worfs arms. He says "I am not a cat person." Geordi smiles, and seems to tear up a little before he replies with, "You are now!" Not to mention that the alternate ending was so much more wholesome to the story. We meet the new commander, Commander Martin Madden, as Riker is leaving to assume his posting. Riker plays a little joke on him which was really funny. In this shot, we don't pan away to credits seeing the Enterprise helpless in dry dock, we see it going cruising away at impulse, fully repaired and ready to go. Basically, we see life on the Enterprise, changes and all, continuing on with business as usual. This scene was very, very well executed and very pleasantly done. If they had kept the deleted scenes and kept the alternate ending, I think the entire tone of the movie would be different.
My honest, genuine opinion is that the reason this movie failed is because Stuart Baird was a disaster. His calling is EDITING. This man needs to leave directing alone. He's smug, he's arrogant and frankly from what I could see of him, he's really weird in that creepy kind of way. I blame him, and him solely for the failure of Nemesis. John Logan had a fantastic story that was a fantastic send off for this crew, but Baird decided that he didn't care, he would go in and completely change the pace of the story because he thinks he knows so much about it. You want someone to blame, blame him.
In regards to what the movie was actually about: It is about change. John Logan had written a beautiful story that was supposed to be about change, about the reality of a military career. This movie was supposed to focus in on character relationships and careers taking their lives in different direction. It's plainly obvious just from reviewing and watching the deleted scenes, which were, ironically, mostly character moments. The most moving scene, imho, of the entire movie ended up getting cut and sent to the bonus features as grainy, unfinished film. It's a scene where Geordi and Worf are cleaning out Data's quarters, both carrying on in a very gloomy silence. In this scene, it is basically a journey down memory lane as you see the quarters a mess after the battle and laying about are a bunch of items that are recognized from the TNG series, posessions that helped to shape and mold him into who he became. At the end, you see Spot climb out from a bunch of toppled furniture and jump into Worfs arms. He says "I am not a cat person." Geordi smiles, and seems to tear up a little before he replies with, "You are now!" Not to mention that the alternate ending was so much more wholesome to the story. We meet the new commander, Commander Martin Madden, as Riker is leaving to assume his posting. Riker plays a little joke on him which was really funny. In this shot, we don't pan away to credits seeing the Enterprise helpless in dry dock, we see it going cruising away at impulse, fully repaired and ready to go. Basically, we see life on the Enterprise, changes and all, continuing on with business as usual. This scene was very, very well executed and very pleasantly done. If they had kept the deleted scenes and kept the alternate ending, I think the entire tone of the movie would be different.
My honest, genuine opinion is that the reason this movie failed is because Stuart Baird was a disaster. His calling is EDITING. This man needs to leave directing alone. He's smug, he's arrogant and frankly from what I could see of him, he's really weird in that creepy kind of way. I blame him, and him solely for the failure of Nemesis. John Logan had a fantastic story that was a fantastic send off for this crew, but Baird decided that he didn't care, he would go in and completely change the pace of the story because he thinks he knows so much about it. You want someone to blame, blame him.
Nemesis is my 2nd favorite TNG movie behind FC. Yeah, it's not perfect but it had a lot of good moments with spectacular music and battle scenes. Really the only complaint I have about the film is I wish it had been a little longer knowing it would most likely be the last TNG film.
I'm sure the paycheck made up for that.
There were certain elements of NEM that I liked... the set design (except for Sickbay), particularlly the set design of the Romulan Senate (as mentioned by others). I loved the slight upgrades to the Bridge of the Big E...
The music was good...
Other than those things, I'd take Insurrection over Nemesis any day. At least Insurrection had a moral. If I was going to rate the TNG movies:
1: First Contact
2: Insurrection
3: Generations
4: Nemesis
Rob+
The music was good...
Other than those things, I'd take Insurrection over Nemesis any day. At least Insurrection had a moral. If I was going to rate the TNG movies:
1: First Contact
2: Insurrection
3: Generations
4: Nemesis
Rob+
I never had a problem with this movie. I loved it from when I first saw it.
I'm in agreement with the above poster. I thought Nemesis was an awesome film, charged with morality issues, human drama and human themes. Themes like "what makes up a persons identity, makes them who they turn out to be? Is it the events that we live through that shape our moral principles, or is it a desire to enrich our selves and acquire the will and wisdom to do the right things with our lives?" The passage of time for "a family" and that things change, not always for the better theme was very moving to me, but I do admit that if many of the character scenes that were edited out weakened the plot, and should have been left in. The conflict between Picard and Shinzon was moving to watch, knowing Picard stands no chance at convincing Shinzon that his life can be better spent by following in Picard's footsteps, like a father rejected by a son. I felt that Picard's behavior at the end when he was forced to kill Shinzon, after being unable to bring himself do it by simply shooting him after first blasting onto the Scimitar's Bridge, before he went after the Theloron Reactor, was emotional. The fact that Jean Luc Picard, one of the most competent persons of duty and principle, could be so emotionally and mentally frozen by his own action, and unable to carry out what he boarded the ship for, even with his own ship and crew about to die because of his inability to think with clarity at that moment, and the expression on his face, only to be saved by Data's own sacrifice, is something that will never leave me. Any and all supposed plot holes that people see in this film are non-existent to me. They can all be rationally explained, using a little brain power. I fail to see how Star Trek Fans so hate this movie. I maintain that it was one of the better of the Star Trek films, and captured the core spirit of what Gene Roddenberry always maintained that Star Trek was about.
There are some very good and poignant moments in this movie and the battle at the end was awesome, I just feel that there was a better story we never got to see.
Admiral Young
Admiral Young
"I am indebted to the makers of ST:Nemesis for starting me on the road of realization that the TNG era was one huge snoozefest. Watched it and thought, "why am I trying so hard to like this shit?""
I realized this while watching a TNG, TOS, DS9, and TOS movie marathons on TV.
3 weeks before the Nemesis premiere, for one week, a TNG episode would be on one channel, and another Star Trek series would be on another. I always switched to the other series.
TNG is dead, its not coming back. The next movie is TOS. The Titan novels are great.
There, I've said my piece. :thumbsup:
I realized this while watching a TNG, TOS, DS9, and TOS movie marathons on TV.
3 weeks before the Nemesis premiere, for one week, a TNG episode would be on one channel, and another Star Trek series would be on another. I always switched to the other series.
TNG is dead, its not coming back. The next movie is TOS. The Titan novels are great.
There, I've said my piece. :thumbsup:
Insurrection had a moral?
I must have missed that bit in amongst all the immorality displayed by the Federation in that film...
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Insurrection/ sums it up quite nicely.
I really don't see how it's possible to dislike a movie, and then decide that you like it based upon interviews with the cast, crew or whatever. Perhaps you can be more specific on what your original opinion was, and exactly what interviews changed your mind?
That was quite a fantastic sentence. Seriously, though, to which action scenes are you referring? What is it about them that makes them fantastic? Where did you encounter direct or implied themes of change within the movie and in what way were those themes fantastically executed? I feel that you're speaking in only general terms here and it doesn't go very far towards helping me understand your new found opinion.
In fact, I'd go so far to say that it seems like you're pulling our legs at best, and that, at worst, you've become like a man who has been wandering in the desert without water. Except, it's a Trekless desert, and the last drink you had was Nemesis. Of course you'll look back fondly upon it now, considering the current drought of Trek material.
What were the plans for the other two movies?
I didn't care for "Nemesis." Someone close to me who saw it on DVD liked it somewhat better, and so we watched it together and I was surprised to have a different reaction. I liked it okay. That's still rather faint praise - I wouldn't plunk down money for the DVD, but I've only done that for three of the Trek movies and one of those was only for research.
I never have trouble coming up with nice things to say about Nemesis. The space battle at the end of the movie was terrific, super cool, I almost wish trek did some stuff like that more often. Inspiring, even. It's just that the REST of the movie was a rather bland and at times silly buildup to that spectacular space battle.
I've seen Nemesis in its entirety about eight times now; I've "seen" Nemesis by skipping to the space battle at the end two or three dozen times.
Nemesis is like Pamela Anderson. Nice to look at, but not much substance.
I've seen Nemesis in its entirety about eight times now; I've "seen" Nemesis by skipping to the space battle at the end two or three dozen times.
Nemesis is like Pamela Anderson. Nice to look at, but not much substance.
I think the big mistake they made with the battle was interrupting it for bland holographic banter between Shinzon and Picard. Otherwise, it was one of the better movie battles.
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