My map of the Federation, post-Nemesis

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Belz..., Dec 31, 2018.

  1. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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  2. Kaiser

    Kaiser Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Seems legit :)
     
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  3. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Well, I've tried to make the locations from either series follow a path for the ship, though I've had to cheat a couple of times because the writers sometimes send me right back to the Neutral Zone or Earth!
     
  4. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    I think Gorn and Tholian space are placed too far out. And I don't see how Turkana and the Dyson sphere would be further out than Ferenginar...
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  5. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Well the two races were always mysterious and we didn't really see them in TNG either so I left them in their own corner. How do you figure that the Sphere would be located differently?

    Your comments are welcome, this is a work in progress.
     
  6. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    The colony Scotty was headed to didn't sound like it was remote, suggesting the Dyson sphere is relatively close to the core worlds, in an unpopulated sector that allowed it to go unnoticed for so long.

    The Tholians shouldn't be that far from the core worlds as they were reachable in the 22nd century. The mirror NX-01 wasn't faster than the prime NX-01.

    I think I saw references showing the Gorn close to Klingon space.

    Basically, the races we saw in TOS and ENT should be closer than Cardassians, Breen, and Ferengi...


    Also I noticed you put some of the worlds within the expanse from season four of Enterprise, between Earth and Romulan space. I'd find it odd they stumbled into that minefield without knowing about t the expanse. I believe some folks theorized that the expanse lies in a region between Cardassians and 23rd century UFP.
     
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  7. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    All those points are fair.

    However there's really no way to reconcile all this because there was never any effort by the writers of either show to make it consistent. If you believe DS9 the Klingons are next to the Cardassians, Romulans and Federation... and the Cardassians are _also_ near the Romulans, so much so that an attack by the Dominion on Romulan targets is credible.

    I'm not sure that the Federation's really that much bigger in the 24th century as it was in the 23rd. We just don't know how exploration was done in the intervening years, what with the Romulan conflicts and Cardassian wars and whatnot. Hell, The UFP was at war with the Sheliak and the Tzenkethi, whoever those latter are, at least once each. Exploration could've been stifled for a few decades. It's all speculation, we just don't know. So I can't say whether the Tholians are really that close to Earth, and damn the prequels for messing things up even further.

    In any case, if you look at the prequel locations, TOS locations and TNG locations, there's still a relatively smooth expansion going on throughout the years. It's just that Tholian space, for instance, was more at the edge of known space back in Kirk's day, and I expect that the Tholians explored and probed as well, so it's possible that contact was made quite a ways outside their own established territory. (EDIT: a quick glance at the Memory Alpha article for the Tholians seems to confirm this)

    As for the Dyson Sphere, it's quite possible that you're right. I just have a hard time believing that Federation long-range sensors wouldn't pick up a construction of this magnitude when we can detect exo-planets quite far away today.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  8. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    True. Also, space is not two-dimensional...
     
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  9. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Also true, but you try to make a 3D map that most people can get their head around. :P I wouldn't even know where to begin, even if I had the tools for it.

    EDIT: Coming back to the Dyson Sphere, I checked some info on Relics again, and Scotty did indeed crash there on the way to a colony for his retirement, though we don't know how far the colony was from Earth at the time. Maybe a new colony with some high-tech stuff. Wouldn't surprise me from Scotty. In any case, the very next episode takes them to a place right on the edge of Federation space, and since my map tries to draw a path for the Enterprise, it kinda works anyway. As I said, it's not easy to make all these things work.
     
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  10. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    I know. I like maps

    Anyway, I took a look at the episodes via Netflix and the scripts from trekcore.com ( in case the subtitles are a bit misleading like they can be. ). Other than Schisms, I'm not getting the feeling they are that far from home.
    I don't see Scotty as someone who would want to head out for a remote colony for retirement. I think he's more of the type who would go to the "Florida" of the UFP with a nice Scottish pub. That Dyson sphere may be easily in an unpopulated region that didn't invite colonists, miners and other powers to move in, and the advanced technology may have been sufficient to fool distant sensors.


    The first half of season six do seem to place them relatively close to Cardassian space. The second half does place them closer to Klingons and Romulans.
     
  11. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Ok well I looked at the episodes again and I must have been mistaken about the surrounding episodes. I'll update the map and put the Sphere a few sectors closer to Earth. Perhaps near Talos IV, where it'd be quite expected for the thing to go overlooked.
     
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  12. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    Several problems might be fixed by putting some things "above". The Dyson sphere could be one such item, being at the top of the plane, the colony being one of the first things in the neighborhood, but there's not much past there, so not much traffic passing through, letting the Sphere go undiscovered. The only way to show that on a 2-D map is to have the systems on "top" be "brighter" than the ones further away.

    Also, I like the way the Federation bleeds out without a border at the edge of their space. It seems to me that the Tholians, Breen and Cardassians should have a similar undefined outer border, unless you want to have them penned in by another unknown power on that side.
     
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  13. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    Above/under the UFP doesn't mean close to the "edge" of the galactic disk.

    I'm just having fun here
     
  14. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    I think it's safe to say that the galactic barrier was reached from the top or bottom of the disc. Otherwise nothing about warp travel makes sense.
     
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  15. Finn

    Finn Admiral Admiral

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    That doesn't really negate my previous post, especially since the disc is ~1000 light years a thick. I just don't think Turkana and Dyson sphere is more distant than Ferenginar if Scotty bumped into the DS in the 2290s on way to a colony, and Turkana was colonized by the early 24th century. That's my issue.
     
  16. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    But Earth is in the middle, so the "edge" is only 500ish light years away. Perfect place for a colony, edge of the Federation but no hostile power on the other side.
     
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  17. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Did you miss my post where I said I'd move the Sphere near Talos IV? That's closer to Earth than Ferenginar. I also note that the Ferengi were, unfortunately, seen in ENT.

    As for the barrier, 500 ly is still a hell of a lot closer than 20,000, and within the limits of the Enterprise's range.
     
  18. Henoch

    Henoch Commodore Premium Member

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    :techman:Very Nice. I think we definitely need a better map than given in manuals, so, good luck. Don't worry too much about up/down, 2D is fine.
    Noticed that Eden should be inside Romulan space per "The Way to Eden". Numerous references are made about a "Starbase", but its number was not given, so, pick a Starbase near the RNZ and put Eden over the border from it. By stardate/production order/episode dates, they were very near Flint's planet in the Omega system and the Cloud Minders' planet of Ardana plus the plague planet Merak Two. So, I guess those three need to be nearish the RNZ and that same starbase, too. Be cautious, plagues, diseases and poison planets are common in that quadrant of space...:barf2:.
     
  19. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Thanks for the tip. I usually avoid that episode.

    Damn, is there anything that's _not_ close to the Romulan Neutral Zone?
     
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  20. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Ok I decided to start from scratch and improve based upon comments and some of my own realisations. I actually went back and checked the Memory Alpha articles for every TOS and TNG episode to try to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

    This time the territory of the Cardassians is better positioned, and UFP territory shows its expansion through time better, I think. Of note is the Tholian territory, which was somewhat displaced by Klingon expansion during the UFP-Tholian war of the mid-24th century, effectively ending it. The dark section in the middle there is a sort of neutral zone between the two, where the Tholians and Klingons can both cross but not settle. It's a compromise to have the Tholians still present despite the Klingon presence near the Cardassians, on a 2D map.

    [​IMG]

    https://www.deviantart.com/argumemnon/art/Star-Trek-map-2380-final-779995012
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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